Sex and nudity ingame?

[Duke Dude]

Your argument extended to (male) violence against women and the belief that it is wrong. That is a statement about personal morality and ethics.

So, to be perfectly frank, you were the one who brought morality into this particular interaction before I did. Morality is also what this entire thread is about: what is considered preferable, what is considered good or bad behaviour, right or wrong, acceptable and unacceptable.

Regardless, the reason why violence and sex are always compared is because of the "moral offence" taken by a vast majority of conservative people and the hypocrisy of it. Sex and nudity harm no-one in any way. Violence (which would include rape) however, does.

The argument taken in all this is that violent and sexual media can influence people; usually minors. Hence the reason for ratings organisations. The argument is then which is more harmful: violent media or sexual media. Violent media might influence minors to murder, bring guns to school, bully, stab each other etc and sexual media might influence minors to go about humping each other (let's face facts, they do this anyway).

The argument (as I've been repeating ad nauseum) is that violent media is rather tolerated far better by societies in general than sexual media. We permit it on television, in news, in gaming and while there are some vocal groups against it, it is still something well-tolerated. However, bring nudity or sex into it and censorship pops up, people cry out about indignity, shame, the effect it has on children and all sorts of nonsense.

I have, personally, always believed that the affront people take to nudity and sexual media is based on personal insecurities/jealousy/fear: that their spouses might prefer that (usually romanticised) ideal over them, that their kids might have sex with people they don't approve of, that their ideal little worlds will be shattered by a very natural and harmless (when adults act responsibly and parents take the time to educate their kids instead of pretending it doesn't exist) process.

So which would you consider to be worse? Seeing someone naked, or seeing someone killed in media or even in the real world?

Personally, I'd rather see someone naked. And I'd much rather have a society that is comfortable with nudity, sex and all that than a society that has grown complacent about violence.

We have already firmly established that in video games, a choice would be ideal although, frankly, even there it would be a laugh and a half. Who wants to play a game with a story tailored around their sensibilities? Who the hell wants to play a game that never offends, never manages to inspire a bit of controversy, never challenges your perceptions of life? Oh, that's right... conservative bigots who want the world to conform to their personal standards.

As I said before: it should be up to the developers/writers/artists/whatever what they want to put in their games and if people don't want to be exposed to it... Play something else. You know, like in the real world. And, just like in the real world, those are the kinds of people who are far happier to have governments tell them how to live, how to raise their kids, what to do, what should be shown on television, what media should be permitted, etc than they are to be responsible adults.

So excuse me if I can't help but sigh a bit at all this

Lol, I agree with everything you said...

Maybe I'm just wording my opinion in the wrong way.

As to what I would take more offense to, I don't take offense to either.

I think were the major problem comes in is parents not monitoring what their children play which can influence them in the wrong way if they're too young.

My personal opinion though, I think too much nudity can devalue women in the eyes of men who fall in "love" with these female characters in-game.

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[MOnk]

The whole morality argument is silly, games are entertainment and I don't think people should be able to dictate to me what I should or shouldn't enjoy, within limits. If I prefer to shoot people than play a romance simulator then I should be allowed to do it. Then again for me it all about how it's done. Like I don't enjoy the kinds of violence they put in Mortal Kombat where dudes are getting ripped in half and all that jazz, some with the latest AvP that have a few similar scenes. I still want to play a game, not a murder simulator.

[iNNOS4iNT]

The whole morality argument is silly, games are entertainment and I don't think people should be able to dictate to me what I should or shouldn't enjoy, within limits. If I prefer to shoot people than play a romance simulator then I should be allowed to do it. Then again for me it all about how it's done. Like I don't enjoy the kinds of violence they put in Mortal Kombat where dudes are getting ripped in half and all that jazz, some with the latest AvP that have a few similar scenes. I still want to play a game, not a murder simulator.

I've got nothing against extreme violence in games... But! There's a limit... And some games, admittedly, take this extreme violence to an extreme level where even have to call it excessive. Like snuff almost. Seen too many... Thinks that's why I'm so used to such grizzly murders etc. Not condoning it, don't get me wrong.

[Lycanthrope]

Lol, I agree with everything you said...

Maybe I'm just wording my opinion in the wrong way.

As to what I would take more offense to, I don't take offense to either.

I think were the major problem comes in is parents not monitoring what their children play which can influence them in the wrong way if they're too young.

My personal opinion though, I think too much nudity can devalue women in the eyes of men who fall in "love" with these female characters in-game.

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See, I hate that "women are separate but equal" argument just as much. I see it so often in this country and, most recently, with that TopTV porn channel debacle. So women want to be in porn, they get paid for it, along with the men and a bunch of men get off to it. But the argument goes that the women in porn are being exploited or dehumanised by this.

So in one breath, these people say, "Woman are equal to men! Women can do anything they want!" but in the next, "Women are not like men. Women aren't allowed to be in porn!"

I am tired of that

If someone wants to get paid for selling their body or for performing sexual acts in adult media for money, why should they not be allowed to? Because they have boobs? Why should they have to feel a shame or stigma for doing it? Have these self same people who worry about the exploitation of women never considered the men who are in porn? But of course, it's different, men aren't humiliated, or "dehumanised" by porn. No, not at all. They must like it because they're men.

Society has grotesque double-standards. You cannot argue for freedom and liberties in one breath and then deny people those freedoms and liberties just because you don't like it.

And no, Duke Dude, I'm not saying you are. You've just struck a chord which has my brain rolling around inside my skull

But yes, the only argument of any merit is, essentially, the negative influence that adult-oriented media has on minors and for that, you can only blame bad parenting: parents who don't communicate with their children and teach them about these things. Note, I said about. Many parents are quick to tell their kids what they believe is right or wrong, but how many parents actually explain these things, the nitty gritty, the good and the bad about these things from an objective point of view? Not many, I think.

And that is, I believe, where the shit starts.

The whole morality argument is silly, games are entertainment and I don't think people should be able to dictate to me what I should or shouldn't enjoy, within limits. If I prefer to shoot people than play a romance simulator then I should be allowed to do it. Then again for me it all about how it's done. Like I don't enjoy the kinds of violence they put in Mortal Kombat where dudes are getting ripped in half and all that jazz, some with the latest AvP that have a few similar scenes. I still want to play a game, not a murder simulator.

I agree completely: each to their own.

[Duke Dude]

See, I hate that "women are separate but equal" argument just as much. I see it so often in this country and, most recently, with that TopTV porn channel debacle. So women want to be in porn, they get paid for it, along with the men and a bunch of men get off to it. But the argument goes that the women in porn are being exploited or dehumanised by this.

So in one breath, these people say, "Woman are equal to men! Women can do anything they want!" but in the next, "Women are not like men. Women aren't allowed to be in porn!"

I am tired of that

If someone wants to get paid for selling their body or for performing sexual acts in adult media for money, why should they not be allowed to? Because they have boobs? Why should they have to feel a shame or stigma for doing it? Have these self same people who worry about the exploitation of women never considered the men who are in porn? But of course, it's different, men aren't humiliated, or "dehumanised" by porn. No, not at all. They must like it because they're men.

Society has grotesque double-standards. You cannot argue for freedom and liberties in one breath and then deny people those freedoms and liberties just because you don't like it.

And no, Duke Dude, I'm not saying you are. You've just struck a chord which has my brain rolling around inside my skull

But yes, the only argument of any merit is, essentially, the negative influence that adult-oriented media has on minors and for that, you can only blame bad parenting: parents who don't communicate with their children and teach them about these things. Note, I said about. Many parents are quick to tell their kids what they believe is right or wrong, but how many parents actually explain these things, the nitty gritty, the good and the bad about these things from an objective point of view? Not many, I think.

And that is, I believe, where the shit starts.

No, look I agree with you. If a man/woman wants to act in a pornographic film then they can do it. No problem there.

But the yes, a woman would be labeled as a slut if she did act in pornos. It's basically a form of legal prostitution. And I think men and women are looked down upon by people as they have significantly lowered standards. Who would you respect more? A person who has sells herself/himself for cash? Or a person who had a goal in life and worked hard to achieve it?

And this is where I think the problem comes in. Because of the massive following porn has and because men are visual (Sexually) the media has recently started using sex as an incentive to sell stuff, and this conditions men. It all becomes about sex. And women see this and can't compete with these super models selling cars etc... And they try and change because they think they'll be loved more by a man because she sees how he's so into a particular pornstar etc... This is my opinion. I would love it if a women on the forum could comment on this .

Lol, no probs dude, I enjoy a good argument .

I think any parent will guide their children on what they deem right and wrong in their eyes, so yeah it will be biased. What I was taught as being right and wrong will most likely differ to what you were taught. I don't think parents are to blame for that though. I just do think parents are not teaching their children about violence, sex, drugs (Etc...) Properly and are leaving the media to teach their children. These things need to be introduced at the appropriate stages in a child's life with a guiding hand.

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[MOnk]

the media has recently started using sex as an incentive to sell stuff, and this conditions men. It all becomes about sex. And women see this and can't compete with these super models selling cars etc... And they try and change because they think they'll be loved more by a man because she sees how he's so into a particular pornstar etc...

Only recently? Pretty sure sex has been selling things since there have been things to sell.

Also you are taking the argument in a whole new direction. Most of these unhealthy images of women aren't propagated by men they are propagated by women in women's magazines with stupidly photoshopped models, or fashion catalogues with 16yr old near-anorexic models. I would love if they passed laws which forced magazines to put disclaimers on images saying the models in the photos have been digitally edited.

If you want to bring back the argument to video games again, and lets steer clear of porn a bit, then there is always the discussion about the way women are depicted in games.

[Pr⊕phet]

lol @ Just male 0 votes

[CrouxL]

No issue with it as long as it adds to the game. Having it in simply to show tits and ass is a waste.

I'm with Fivel

[OmegaFenix]

I think it should be an optional thing, you want to pursue in the game, I do not want when I play games, watch pornographic movies.

For someone based in "New York" your grasp of the english language is shocking.

I smell a troll.

[B1nary]

I agree with sycogrim, they should just give gamers the option to turn off the mature content in games nudity, language etc.. these things are not usually needed to progress the plot of the game and if you find it offensive why not have the option to have it filtered