Checkpointing frequency in Games

Hagan

Hagan

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I've played many a game that had a horrendous checkpointing system.

The game forces a series of events in which the player has to perform (possibly) a multitude of tasks before a checkpoint is reached -- and should the player die or fail to perform certain tasks or objectives given, they are required to do it all from the last reached checkpoint (which could easily be 10-15 mins with of gameplay that must be re-done). A time-consuming implementation (for lack of a better word).

Games should be a challenge - but, it's no challenge when it becomes a frustration or annoyance.

Do you think/feel that checkpoints should be more frequent, as I do?


If so, why? State your opinion on this matter?

If not, why? State your opinion on this matter?
 
Yes, recently I have run into exactly what you are subscribing. I think checkpoints should be more frequent or a system where you can quick save should be put in. Quick save works very well, in my head even better than autosave, but autosave is still needed.
 
Hagan said:
I've played many a game that had a horrendous checkpointing system.

The game forces a series of events in which the player has to perform (possibly) a multitude of tasks before a checkpoint is reached -- and should the player die or fail to perform certain tasks or objectives given, they are required to do it all from the last reached checkpoint (which could easily be 10-15 mins with of gameplay that must be re-done). A time-consuming implementation (for lack of a better word).

Games should be a challenge - but, it's no challenge when it becomes a frustration or annoyance.

Do you think/feel that checkpoints should be more frequent, as I do?


If so, why? State your opinion on this matter?

If not, why? State your opinion on this matter?
Click to expand...

Bring back quick save and quick load!
 
It really depends on the game, but you guys really sound like you want your hand held. Play the game on easy if you don't like getting stuck.
 
Grievous said:
It really depends on the game, but you guys really sound like you want your hand held.
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How is not wanting to play a 10 minute section of the game ad nauseam expecting to have our hands held? There are many issues where people complain about a game not holding their hand enough, but complaining about rubbish checkpoints is not one of them.

Checkpoint save systems are from the devil, plain and simple. You make a mistake on one section and then you have to replay the 5 or 10 minutes that came before that section again. Then maybe you fail the section again and it sets you back even more time, whereas with a normal save system you might have saved just before the tricky part, failed two or three times and then went past it in a matter of two or three minutes.
 
I see a need in the industry for a new innovative solution.

Quicksave/load - sometimes makes it too easy. Akin to cheating.
Checkpoints - very difficult to balance as skill levels vary. Perhaps difficulty based Checkpoints.

Maybe something like what the previous splinter cells or hitman games did? You get x minus difficulty level saves to use whenever you choose? I actually enjoyed that system...
 
Ser_Bunnylot said:
I see a need in the industry for a new innovative solution.

Quicksave/load - sometimes makes it too easy. Akin to cheating.
Checkpoints - very difficult to balance as skill levels vary. Perhaps difficulty based Checkpoints.

Maybe something like what the previous splinter cells or hitman games did? You get x minus difficulty level saves to use whenever you choose? I actually enjoyed that system...
Click to expand...

This is why I said it depends on the game. Quick saves, is hand holding. It takes the challenge away. You also remove the sense of a achievement once you get past a hard part. I loved Resident Evil and its long check points, because once you got past the hard part you actually felt like you had achieved something. I agree some games do it terribly though. For example putting the checkpoint before a cinematic, and then everytime you die you have to watch it again.
 
Grievous said:
This is why I said it depends on the game. Quick saves, is hand holding. It takes the challenge away. You also remove the sense of a achievement once you get past a hard part. I loved Resident Evil and its long check points, because once you got past the hard part you actually felt like you had achieved something. I agree some games do it terribly though. For example putting the checkpoint before a cinematic, and then everytime you die you have to watch it again.
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+1

Well, quick saving being cheating is true. Quick saving is a must for open world games.

I think quick saving works well if it is restricted, for example when facing an enemy(Can't save while an enemy is close, etc. but you can save just before they get in range)

In the end it depends on the game.
 
I like the system in AC where the checkpoints are the verious objectives in the mission. I don't think Quicksaves are good because I feel it's open to abuse. I think the idea should not be on frequent saves but on objectives. In open world games it should be the same and only save when you start a mission, find a collectable or die but not the quicksave option.
 
I don't like limited checkpointing.

Yes, a challenge should be presented - that if a player eventually finishes the segment and reaches the next part/series of things to do, that it feels like a personal achievement. But, not to a point where it becomes needlessly and frustratingly time-consuming.
 
Ike_009 said:
I like the system in AC where the checkpoints are the verious objectives in the mission. I don't think Quicksaves are good because I feel it's open to abuse. I think the idea should not be on frequent saves but on objectives. In open world games it should be the same and only save when you start a mission, find a collectable or die but not the quicksave option.
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This is the perfect one for me, complete an objective, save. Saints row does this as well.
 
Deadspace or the GTA games where you can only save in a safe house is what I like, CoD have got their checkpoints down pretty well, only one problem ever and that was back in CoD 2 where it autosaved with me facing backwards and looking down a ladder and the mortar teams were peppering me on top of a tower.
 
Coming from the old arcade days I think both checkpoints and quick saves take away from thet feeling that you beat the game. That said, I do not mind 10+ minute play on checkpoints at all, it just makes me more determined to succeed the next time round.

What I do want is for checkpoint games to save the current position when I exit the game. I don't have hours to play games and sometimes just play something to kill time, like when I wait for the Mrs before we go out. What grinds me here is in order to save my progress I have to make sure I reach a checkpoint before I exit or stand a chance to lose everything I did.
 
Piesank said:
Deadspace or the GTA games where you can only save in a safe house is what I like, CoD have got their checkpoints down pretty well, only one problem ever and that was back in CoD 2 where it autosaved with me facing backwards and looking down a ladder and the mortar teams were peppering me on top of a tower.
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Which reminds me of Left for dead. Huge gaps between save points, but its one of the reasons its such a cool game. That filling while shits going down and the team is rushing to the safe room and trying to close the door.
 
Grievous said:
This is why I said it depends on the game. Quick saves, is hand holding. It takes the challenge away. You also remove the sense of a achievement once you get past a hard part. I loved Resident Evil and its long check points, because once you got past the hard part you actually felt like you had achieved something. I agree some games do it terribly though. For example putting the checkpoint before a cinematic, and then everytime you die you have to watch it again.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. That is a cheap way to make a game hard. Its far from holding hands,not all of us want to play the same part over again bec we don't have the time to sit for hours at a time. And it puts me off big time if I have to redo ten minutes of the game.

But Only for certain games there should be a quick save.
 
It's 2013, all cut-scenes - even mini-cut-scenes - should be skippable.
 
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Tsar said:
I don't agree. That is a cheap way to make a game hard. Its far from holding hands,not all of us want to play the same part over again bec we don't have the time to sit for hours at a time. And it puts me off big time if I have to redo ten minutes of the game.

But Only for certain games there should be a quick save.
Click to expand...

I think quick saves is a cheap way to not balance your games difficulty.
 
I don't see how manual saving is somehow hand-holding or how it can be considered cheating? It's not like the section you have to play through suddenly becomes easier because you can save just before it. The enemies are still the same, their tactics are still the same, etc. If you're arguing that it enables save-scumming, then checkpoint save systems enable that too, just with a bit more repetition thrown in the mix.

Is quicksaving 'cheating' simply because you don't have to replay a section of the game you've already played through?

IMO, games that allow both manual saving and checkpoint autosaves are the best. You get the choice to save if you want, but the game also regularly autosaves at specific checkpoints for in case you don't want to save manually.

Overall, I just don't like checkpoint save systems. Mainly because the few times I've had games corrupt my saves and force me to start over from scratch, it was games that made use of a checkpoint save system. Manual systems often allow you to save in multiple slots, so even if one of your savegames corrupt you've still got others to fall back on.

Just this weekend I sunk 15 hours into State of Decay, then launched it yesterday just to find my saved game had corrupted. Hooray for checkpoint save systems!
 
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