Piracy - is it a dirty word?

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Originally Posted by Valerion

It's completely off-topic, so I won't say too much about it. CD's and DVD's tend to scratch, I found. Also, since the distributors are afraid of piracy, they put all sorts of protection on (like StarForce), that also breaks legitimate applications. But what really got to me was the enforcement of what is popular. I can find a full shelf of The Sims, but a Sci-Fi RTS stays on the shelf for less than a week. If I ask for a copy to be ordered I simply get a shrug, "No one is interested in importing it into SA. You're out of luck." Try to get a 3/4 year old game from them.

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Take2 allows you a means to import from the UK or the US and tend to stock things for longer than a week :p There's also WantItAll.

Steam is not immune to third-party DRM either. A fair number of its games have SecuRom, amongst others, on top of the obvious account-locking.

The only truly DRM-free digital distributor, I feel, is GOG. They also have a significantly better selection of older games than Steam.

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On Steam all the old games are there, I can buy them at my leisure, without leaving my study. I can compare prices between editions, I can re-download the data if I manage to wipe my PC. It's often cheaper, even if you don't count the Steam specials.

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Not always cheaper, sometimes actually more expensive. But yes, the specials are a huge incentive to have both digital and physical copies.

Personally, I like to collect games so I sort of "imagine" them having a kind of worth. I say "imagined" because I would never sell them. Account-locked games (Steam, LIVE, Blizzard, etc) are worthless in my opinion. If there is no other option, I'll still get it but that game feels less meaningful to me.

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Other than being able to hold a box in my hands, what benefit do I get from the brick and mortar stores that I have to fall in with their plans?

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I don't really understand what brick and mortar stores have to do with anything. I buy my games online and either have them delivered via courier or I fetch them at the BT Games stores. A physical copy is more important to me. Steam games, especially older ones, are difficult (if not impossible) to unofficially patch.

A physical copy might break if not properly cared for, sure, a digital distributor can close down. A physical copy's installation doesn't depend on your bandwidth and I've always just been partial to physical copies. The Steam client is also temperamental, sometimes it takes years for a game to load, other times it spends years logging in. Sometimes it insists on downloading huge patches, meaning I can't download them separately and play in the meantime. Those are issues I don't want to deal with when all I want to do is play my games :)

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And thanks for the welcome :)

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Always happy to see another friendly face :p

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Personally, I like to collect games so I sort of "imagine" them having a kind of worth. I say "imagined" because I would never sell them. Account-locked games (Steam, LIVE, Blizzard, etc) are worthless in my opinion. If there is no other option, I'll still get it but that game feels less meaningful to me.

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You say this like a game has no intrinsic worth in and of itself. You know, as an entertainment product.

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Originally Posted by Azimuth

You say this like a game has no intrinsic worth in and of itself. You know, as an entertainment product.

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No, not at all. I just mean that to me, a game is a collection of things. It's the packaging, the manual, the effort taken to put together the cover and, I guess, there's the perceived peer envy in having an original of something. Digital copies, in my opinion, lack that and account-locked games lack that sort of peer envy because no amount of "want" can change the fact that there is no resell value or collector's value to an account-locked game.

While I do appreciate the intrinsic worth and appreciate the entertainment value of it, it's worth significantly less to me than a game with collector's value.

Lycanthrope likes the physically worship his games, the touch, the feel, the cuddling up... :D

however in reality how long before you forget about them, how long before it becomes just another used space in your drawer ? i literally tossed away all my boxes except tie fighter and monkey island when i first moved out and from there on the box thing didn't bother me as much.

i only really get physical nowadays when it's worth the effort worthwhile keeping it, but still after a while it becomes another box in my cubard, sure it looks nice, but it sits there...

you can hardly quote the manual as a biblical reason to get it as today's manuals are no more than a 10 to 15 pager at most with nothing but the bare basics.

the last proper manual i had came with my nwn 1 box and it contained literally everything, if i take it out now one can clearly see scratches, torns and so on because it was actually worth something.

imho it's flawed to think of a game as something physical as the game code itself is not physical, it's digital. i can't roll around in my bed and make love to the "for loop" that checks my health in dead space, can i ?

hate it or love it, digital distro is here to stay. it's one of the very reasons i could purchase some of the games like halo 1 i pirated to now own a legit version. same as with gog, i could finally just get a fucking legit baldurs gate. even made up for the 4 times i pirated l4d1 buy buying it four times and giving out three.

no game is suddenly more valuable just because you could toss off the dvd dics vs a supposedly downloaded version, where in fact as i've said both game is at the end the same thing...

:more
maybe i just have a lack of materialism, shrugs...

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Originally Posted by Pr⊕phet

Lycanthrope likes the physically worship his games, the touch, the feel, the cuddling up... :D

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Yup. You left out scent. I'd probably lick them too, but I worry that might damage them.

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however in reality how long before you forget about them, how long before it becomes just another used space in your drawer ? i literally tossed away all my boxes except tie fighter and monkey island when i first moved out and from there on the box thing didn't bother me as much.

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Um, let's see, assuming that the oldest game in my collection is something like 14-years-old, I'm willing to bet on never. I also don't keep my games in a drawer >.> Aside from the fact that I have too many to keep in drawers, I like showing them off and keeping them safe :)

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i only really get physical nowadays when it's worth the effort worthwhile keeping it, but still after a while it becomes another box in my cubard, sure it looks nice, but it sits there...

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Even a work of art "just sits there." It's the emotional/sentimental attachment you attribute to it which keeps it there.

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you can hardly quote the manual as a biblical reason to get it as today's manuals are no more than a 10 to 15 pager at most with nothing but the bare basics.

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Well, the odd little, "Thank you for buying this game" written in the manual gets me all giddy ;)

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the last proper manual i had came with my nwn 1 box and it contained literally everything, if i take it out now one can clearly see scratches, torns and so on because it was actually worth something.

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"Worth" is largely subjective.

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imho it's flawed to think of a game as something physical as the game code itself is not physical, it's digital. i can't roll around in my bed and make love to the "for loop" that checks my health in dead space, can i ?

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Are you trying to go PD on me? There is no flaw in thinking of a game as physical--it is tangible, it is alterable and even on the smallest scale it exists as physical and perceivable matter. You could consider the conscious experience to be metaphysical, sure. I don't get what you're aiming at here? It just seems like you've jumped off the deep end.

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hate it or love it, digital distro is here to stay. it's one of the very reasons i could purchase some of the games like halo 1 i pirated to now own a legit version. same as with gog, i could finally just get a fucking legit baldurs gate. even made up for the 4 times i pirated l4d1 buy buying it four times and giving out three.

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Don't recall arguing about the longevity, expected or otherwise, of digital distribution?

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no game is suddenly more valuable just because you could toss off the dvd dics vs a supposedly downloaded version, where in fact as i've said both game is at the end the same thing...

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No idea what you're talking about >.>

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:more
maybe i just have a lack of materialism, shrugs...

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Everything in life is material except for consciousness which is arguably the result of physical processes. I have a sentimental attachment to my games, as I have a sentimental attachment to my books, letters my other half writes to me and things he gives me. The item in itself is irrelevant, the memory and experience is what is important.

To me, that experience prefers the inclusion of the box and the manual, much like how many (myself included) prefer an actual book to an ebook.

Personal preference.

Talk about going off topic :p

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Yup. You left out scent. I'd probably lick them too, but I worry that might damage them.

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just careful of those made in china they might poison you or something.

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Um, let's see, assuming that the oldest game in my collection is something like 14-years-old, I'm willing to bet on never. I also don't keep my games in a drawer >.> Aside from the fact that I have too many to keep in drawers, I like showing them off and keeping them safe :]

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drawer was simplest example, see i hardly show off my titles, they are all nicely packed out in my cupboard that has a silk thing over it with a tiger on it. i can show that off :P

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Even a work of art "just sits there." It's the emotional/sentimental attachment you attribute to it which keeps it there.

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well emotion is not something physical at it's core ;)

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Well, the odd little, "Thank you for buying this game" written in the manual gets me all giddy ;]

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still useless to me. /opens deadspace 2 manual; no thank you in there just warnings and then the basics for the n00bs so they don't die to often :(

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

"Worth" is largely subjective.

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as is emotion.

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Are you trying to go PD on me? There is no flaw in thinking of a game as physical--it is tangible, it is alterable and even on the smallest scale it exists as physical and perceivable matter. You could consider the conscious experience to be metaphysical, sure. I don't get what you're aiming at here? It just seems like you've jumped off the deep end.

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games in the end gives you an experience, it's not physical it's in your mind. so you can't imho say that the game is better when in one form VS another form. as i've said all game code is non physical (aka digital). it's not going to be a better experience if you bought game A in a box or game A via digital distro.

ps. if i went full on, guns blazing PD here... we might have a few fatalities ;)

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Don't recall arguing about the longevity, expected or otherwise, of digital distribution?

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just saying. digital distro is a big reason i buy a lot of my titles and those i either never could buy or can't find them anymore in physical form.

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

No idea what you're talking about >.>

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that was fail; we lol and move on. (no not you, me)

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Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Everything in life is material except for consciousness which is arguably the result of physical processes. I have a sentimental attachment to my games, as I have a sentimental attachment to my books, letters my other half writes to me and things he gives me. The item in itself is irrelevant, the memory and experience is what is important.

To me, that experience prefers the inclusion of the box and the manual, much like how many (myself included) prefer an actual book to an ebook.

Personal preference.

Talk about going off topic :p

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problem with ebooks is i can't scribble in it. nor can i in the middle of something quickly boot up my pc, look for the ebook and continue. that's about the only format i prefer in physical... books, but day will come that we have little of them left sadly.

That physical sence is the primary reason behind me not supporting copyright. A game is Digital Data. Can you hold it? No, if I don't get to hold a DVD, you don't get to hold my money. If that DVD scratches, it's my own fault. If I want to make a copy of that DVD at my own expence and give it away. You shouldn't have a say in the matter because I'm not costing you a cent you don't allready have.

The day that me downloading a torrent actualy makes your account balance go down as I download it, is the day that I stop pirating.

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Originally Posted by Raven Gold

That physical sence is the primary reason behind me not supporting copyright. A game is Digital Data. Can you hold it? No, if I don't get to hold a DVD, you don't get to hold my money. If that DVD scratches, it's my own fault. If I want to make a copy of that DVD at my own expence and give it away. You shouldn't have a say in the matter because I'm not costing you a cent you don't allready have.

The day that me downloading a torrent actualy makes your account balance go down as I download it, is the day that I stop pirating.

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When buying games you are paying for the labour. If you go to a doctor for a checkup and there's nothing wrong with you, do you refuse to pay him/her? You pay the doctor even though you don't get anything physical from it.

Lets say a carpenter gets free wood and works hard for a while and creates a chair. The carpenter is impressed with his work and he is going to sell it to make money. It's his job. You come in and take the chair for yourself. You don't pay the man. You are not "costing the man a cent that he doesn't already have." His "account balance won't go down as you take it" but the carpenter doesn't get an income and has to close his business.

A developer goes and works hard to create something dear to him/her. It costs x amount of money and a certain amount of games have to be sold to make a profit and to continue with the business. A couple of games are sold and a couple of games are pirated. People loved the game but the company has to close because it was unsustainable. People lose their jobs.

And we never get follow ups to the Titan Quests or the Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

You can try to justify it as much as you want but you are stealing. People are working hard and you are enjoying the fruits of their labour without giving them any compensation.

You, Raven Gold, are a thief.

I don't take his chair. It's his wood, whether or not he got it for free is irrelevant, it's his wood. I really do like his chair, but it comes with a contract that I'm not allowed to sit on it unless I put porcupine down on the chair fist. So I get my own wood and build an identical chair.

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Originally Posted by Raven Gold

I don't take his chair. It's his wood, whether or not he got it for free is irrelevant, it's his wood. I really do like his chair, but it comes with a contract that I'm not allowed to sit on it unless I put porcupine down on the chair fist. So I get my own wood and build an identical chair.

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Hmmmm you just don't get it, nor do you want to. He went to all the trouble to design the chair so effectively you 'stole' his design. We get it you don't really care and you being the 'robin hood' of the gaming industry really is well pfffffffft!