Bible makes strong comeback

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Graal

And I guess I don't give a damn if I offend people with things that are not intended to be offensive. I don't take offence at things that are not intended offensively either, because I'm an adult and I realise that if I take offence at such things, that's my problem, not anyone else's.

Good luck with your approach, though.

---

So let's test this approach - as an adult (you) post/say something that you don't deem offensive but a number of folk deem it offensive. Your view is that's ok as you never intended to offend and everyone else has a problem?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James

This is loaded with logical flaws.

First you take the scientific model of the universe (moments ago we agreed scientific models cannot be used to prove the existence of a formless god so why use it as a base to argue that god exists);

Then you assume an absolute state of nothing (whatever that would be - science has made no claims) is the opposite of the scientific model of the universe;

Then you make the leap to "for the universe to be created", which presupposes it was indeed "created" out of nothing, by a creator who is apparently "something" (which undermines the claim of absolute nothing, unless he is exempt from logic as a special case) not subjected to the physical laws of the universe as we currently understand them.

Somehow this is meant to prove the existence of a creator god?

---

Quote:

---

The universe is everything, without the universe there is nothing. So for the universe to be created there must have been something before it, a creator. It goes against all logic to deny that nothing has created the universe.

---

Sorry that came out wrong, got lost in my thinking. I meant to say there is nothing in terms of creation ( that which has been created by the deity ) .I use it as a base argument because the universe is proof that a deity exists. We are living proof that a deity exists. What you are arguing for is that everything came about by chance. The absolute precision with which the universe was designed came about by chance.

You say he is a special case, I wouldn't put it that way. If we call the deity the creator of the universe , then why should he be subject to the laws which he created? The main point I'm arguing for is that 'something' , in my case a omnipotent deity, has created the universe. You can't deny that there was something.

But thanks for stating your argument so clearly, I will get back to it tomorrow with a clearer head.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fivel

So let's test this approach - as an adult (you) post/say something that you don't deem offensive but a number of folk deem it offensive. Your view is that's ok as you never intended to offend and everyone else has a problem?

---

If I had to censor myself every time I wanted to have a discussion on a topic that someone might find offensive, I would find myself out of topics to talk about very soon.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LHDxqigCco.../s1600/fry.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Graal

If I had to censor myself every time I wanted to have a discussion on a topic that someone might find offensive, I would find myself out of topics to talk about very soon.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LHDxqigCco.../s1600/fry.jpg

---

I guess you are correct, thanks for the honest discussion, I don't agree with you but understand your approach.