Piracy in the gaming industry: Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

Do you walk into a car dealership steal a car off the showroom floor drive it around for a week decide if you like it then pay for it? If you want to "try" a game play the demo or borrow the game from a friend or even go rent it at BTgames. But this pirate and "try it" for awhile is one of the sorriest excuses ever.

---

That was not my point. Besides whether pirating a game or borrowing it from a friend to see whether it is any decent has the EXACTLY the same effect of equaling NO money for the developers. And perhaps if you read my statement a liiiiiitle more carefully before leaping to your likely very worn out rocking-horse, you would have noticed that I am even in fact against the idea in reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

So that gives him the right to take what is not his? Do you how much it cost to develop a game? A typical modern video game can cost from $1,000,000 to over $20,000,000 to develop . Now take that and times it by R7.6 and that is not even considering the advertising and PR that goes with it not to mention the packaging manuals and everything else that goes with it. Then there is import taxes and shipping fees all of these add up this isn't 1996 just like food and everything else the price of any goods will increase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development

If you can afford the consoles and the big screen tv`s you play it on not to mention paying for PC upgrades each year or less then you can afford to actually buy the games simple as that. To suggest otherwise would be hypocritical. The developers need to make money the gaming industry isn't a charity they aren't here to make us games at their loss or expense it is an entertainment form just like movies and if we want to keep seeing good AAA titles we have to pay simple as that.

---

So just because X product cost 930987 bajillon dollarz! to produce does it make it fine slap whatever price they decide on it!?

Sure games are having bigger and bigger production values but that does NOT equate to true worth of a product. Now I know flashy graphics and cheap ploys may infatuate many a gamer, however I can see clearly that while the costs seem to be going up, the games are not necessarily getting any better besides from a technical aspect.

And my complaint against the pricing of games is not just directed at gaming itself but rather at this truly throwaway society of quick excesses. Products that include gaming, are getting steeper and steeper in pricing for items that do not scale well short term never mind long term. And as far as the devs and publishers making money. How much is truly enough? Now I understand there is a LOT at play regarding pricing, but honestly when is enough enough? The world does not run on magnanimous gestures, and to think that they are doing what is best for us in the majority of cases instead of lining their own pockets is in my opinion naive. But maybe I am just a pessimist.

I never said that the people making games should not be entitled to their pay.

And again read. I did NOT condone the opinions of Raven, I was just playing somewhat of a devils advocate because while I generally disagree with Raven's opinions, I can see some truth to some of the feelings held in some instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

I would gladly pay for my gaming habit, by buying a game you are showing support for your favorite developer which means you get better and better games and more sequels. But this vigilante piracy crap is what got the PC industry into the mess in the first place. Blame the developers? No no no. Lay the blame squarely on the gamers who keep on pirating and justifying it with their 5 grader excuses.

---

Again, when is the price too much? When YOU find you can not afford something you could easily a few years back? Or when gaming is the sole hobby to the entitled few with enormous bank balances? My statement is blown out of proportion, which is perfect given the line of much of your reaction to my post

I do not condone piracy as much as I do not condone paying R100 for a McMeal Combo, even if it IS Super Sized.

P.S. And if that was not clear enough to cut through your more on than off Forum Rage:
I DO NOT CONDONE PIRACY.
I hope this last part helped some larch. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

That was not my point.

---

Then what is your point? Didn't you state you dont mind the idea to pirate a game to "try" it out first? Does it not come down to the very same point I made about stealing a car?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Besides whether pirating a game or borrowing it from a friend to see whether it is any decent has the EXACTLY the same effect of equaling NO money for the developers.

---

Borrowing it from a friend (a legal copy) means that it is a copy that was paid for. Your friend can't play it while you have it, and you can't play it once you return it to him. Those involved in creating and distributing the game have received the money they expected to receive from somebody using it, and they are happy. So no it is not the same, so in reality, you know the place without rainbows and unicorns piracy and borrowing a game is not the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And perhaps if you read my statement a liiiiiitle more carefully before leaping to your likely very worn out rocking-horse, you would have noticed that I am even in fact against the idea in reality.

---

But did you not state you like the idea to pirate and try it before buying it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

So just because X product cost 930987 bajillon dollarz! to produce does it make it fine slap whatever price they decide on it!? Sure games are having bigger and bigger production values but that does NOT equate to true worth of a product. Now I know flashy graphics and cheap ploys may infatuate many a gamer, however I can see clearly that while the costs seem to be going up, the games are not necessarily getting any better besides from a technical aspect.

---

Back to the thing we call reality, higher production values = higher cost. Taxes go up. Producing items gets more expensive, inflation changes the economy does not stay constant the market changes. That is economics one on one.

You must be living under a rock not to have noticed the leaps and bounds gaming has made the last couple of years and how many AAA titles we have been getting when compared the the PS2 and Xbox days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And my complaint against the pricing of games is not just directed at gaming itself but rather at this truly throwaway society of quick excesses. Products that include gaming, are getting steeper and steeper in pricing for items that do not scale well short term never mind long term.

---

If you want something long term get a pet fish gaming by nature is a short term hobby, you play game X finish it and move on to the next and maybe come back if there is some DLC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And as far as the devs and publishers making money. How much is truly enough? Now I understand there is a LOT at play regarding pricing, but honestly when is enough enough? The world does not run on magnanimous gestures, and to think that they are doing what is best for us in the majority of cases instead of lining their own pockets is in my opinion naive. But maybe I am just a pessimist.

---

Or maybe your just ignorant to the fact just how many hours/man power and money is involved in producing a AAA game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And again read. I did NOT condone the opinions of Raven, I was just playing somewhat of a devils advocate because while I generally disagree with Raven's opinions, I can see some truth to some of the feelings held in some instances.

---

How can you label anything he says as the truth he views himself as some modern day robin hood vigilante who justifies his piracy of games as teaching a lesson to "greedy" developers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Again, when is the price too much? When YOU find you can not afford something you could easily a few years back? Or when gaming is the sole hobby to the entitled few with enormous bank balances? My statement is blown out of proportion, which is perfect given the line of much of your reaction to my post

---

Pro-tip if you can initially afford a new game there is many ways you can get the games you want and save money. Video games have always been an expensive hobby either deal with it or start collecting stamps.

You are unbelievably tedious larch. You have no ability to read between the lines, and can only use a polar thought process.

You like going in circles and you seem in awe of your own ideas to which I have yet to see any wiggle room for objective interpretation in regards to them. Its larch's way or "Get The F*%$$ Off The Forums" way. I guess for a person like you I would have to write a step by step, word for word process of my thought if I were ever to get you to maybe understand my opinions.

I have much better things to do than play "Quote Wars" on a forum. I have said what I wanted to even if it does not fit nicely into your small skew of things, or more likely you failed to understand what I was saying.

Feel free to tear this post apart per your normal endearing ways.

When I joined MyGaming in February I was actually quite pro-piracy. I didn't do it myself aside from downloading the occasional album and buying it later (for srs), but I didn't think it was a big deal and figured that if game developers were going to act like idiots and make their games suck in order to prevent piracy then by all means, buy a skull hat and wooden leg, it'll be fun.

Then I saw the articles on it and the effect it has. You can say that game developers go about preventing it in stupid ways, but rather cut the problem off at the source. Yes, I feel it is taken out of proportion and meaningless methods are implemented to prevent it, but that's like saying law enforcement isn't efficient and until it is I'll keep sodomizing my boys.

What shocks me the most is games being pirated before release. I believe this happened with Street Fighter IV and a few other games which I can't exactly remember, but there is no way to justify that or make it right, it's stealing and it's criminal at a new level. The point of downloading it without paying isn't THAT big if a deal but seriously, rather buy the game and support game makers. I feel it's as simple as that.

PS
To dissipate the tension I think tehNihilist and larch have some make up hugs coming <33

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

You are unbelievably tedious larch. You have no ability to read between the lines, and can only use a polar thought process.

You like going in circles and you seem in awe of your own ideas to which I have yet to see any wiggle room for objective interpretation in regards to them. Its larch's way or "Get The F*%$$ Off The Forums" way. I guess for a person like you I would have to write a step by step, word for word process of my thought if I were ever to get you to maybe understand my opinions.

I have much better things to do than play "Quote Wars" on a forum. I have said what I wanted to even if it does not fit nicely into your small skew of things, or more likely you failed to understand what I was saying.

Feel free to tear this post apart per your normal endearing ways.

---

How disappointing but not un-expected when someone looses the ground he stands on in a discussion he starts attacking the poster and not the opinion such a A-typical reaction.

Yes yes larch. I love you too.

Now back on topic people. Well that is unless you have an opinion that does not fall into larch's view. Not much of a discussion considering that you had made your mind up entirely before you even posted this topic (and many others). These are not discussions or debates, just trolls so larch can climb into you if you think otherwise on the topic.

Black / White
Wrong / Right
larch's opinion / everything else

In closing - I do not support piracy like I have said many times already. I just think it is not as clear as some people may think it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Yes yes larch. I love you too.

Now back on topic people. Well that is unless you have an opinion that does not fall into larch's view. Not much of a discussion considering that you had made your mind up entirely before you even posted this topic (and many others). These are not discussions or debates, just trolls so larch can climb into you if you think otherwise on the topic.

Black / White
Wrong / Right
larch's opinion / everything else

In closing - I do not support piracy like I have said many times already. I just think it is not as clear as some people may think it is.

---

ag shame the baby is crying foul :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

I do not mind the idea of pirating a game to 'try' it, but often human nature kicks in and once it is finished, a person would rather go buy something new than pay for something they just had.

---

sorry bob that is pretty much saying that pirating is ok ;)

should i also download a flick to try it first?
how bout stealing candy from a kid to try it first?

next time i think i'm going to drink the milk first in the shop too :D

Even if the publishers "backed down", the pirates wouldn't. Some would, but the reality is most people would be petty criminals if basic laws weren't enforced. That's the situation with piracy, its like a big looting zerg and the only reason not to partake are your morals/conscience. "If your clued up enough to upgrade your video card to play games, your clued up enough to pirate them."

In the short term, the publishers STILL need to back down because they aren't even slowing down piracy. All they are doing is hurting their legit customers, I dare say they may even be giving a few of them incentive to go investigate this piracy thing. If they back down they may even win back the odd ex-legit customer. They should also focus more on giving big incentive to purchase the original copy (multiplayer, extra free content on registration etc.).

In the long term, the laws around piracy and internet laws need to be taken back to the drawing board. The only way to significantly slow it down at this point is to be able to hold torrent sites (piratebay), news groups/services (giganews), p2p sharing services (kazaa), file sharing sites (rapidshare) etc. responsible. If those sites are actively forced to pull down pirated content (much like Youtube is forced to pull videos with copyright infringements), piracy WILL take a very hefty hit.

I'm not going to say anything major here - I think this thread covered all the bases and from what I can see it's descending into name-calling and random arguments again - and if someone wants to decry the name-calling I'll be happy to quote.

First - I don't condone piracy. I've been guilty of it in the past, but i make every effort to buy a game I want, and if I'm not certain that I want it I'll make every effort to borrow a copy (legal) from a mate and get some playtime in. However - even here we tend to run into DRM issues sometimes.

DRM, in my view, has made piracy worse. I understand that publishers are trying to protect their revenue stream, but DRM hits the consumer who buys the product, and has no effect on the pirates. Really. The toughest DRM in the world is usually cracked within a few days of release, if not before. And the owner of the legal copy, rightfully, gets pissed off because he is the guy who gets treated like a criminal.

If DRM bothers you, if you can't be assured of steady connections and whatever other factors may be involved in buying a game, go ahead and buy the game - and then get hold of a cracked copy to play. That way, you've done your bit to support the developers, and you've made life easier for yourself at the same time. I'm sure that will get its own set of arguments though ... feel free.

However, Raven, I understand your sentiments, and those of the guys who have issues with game pricing - unfortunately, I can't agree with them. If you can't afford the game, or you are not willing to pay the price, don't buy the game, and don't pirate it either. Just go without. Whether gaming is your passion (or your life, if you want to put it that way), you won't die without it. I'm not a doctor, but I can pretty much guarantee you'll live.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necuno

ag shame the baby is crying foul :D



sorry bob that is pretty much saying that pirating is ok ;)

should i also download a flick to try it first?
how bout stealing candy from a kid to try it first?

next time i think i'm going to drink the milk first in the shop too :D

---

This is utterly pointless trying explaining things to people who cannot understand what I am saying. From now on maybe I had better start using kindergarten talk to make sure nothing is left open to any interpretation.

Notice: I do not mind (that does NOT suggest I fully agree with piracy)the idea of pirating a game to 'try' it, but often human nature kicks in and once it is finished, a person would rather go buy something new than pay for something they just had. (Now most importantly read the second portion. I am saying, in simple terms that maybe you idiots may understand, that people who say they will buy a game after pirate testing it never actually do! Like wow! So now I partially agree with piracy in the first segment, then almost totally retract my idea in the latter!)

I am saying I think that in theory the idea may work but it does NOT in reality! People need to read, comprehend, THEN post. Seems so many people just see select flags and then proceed to go off on an attack, which smacks of a lack of clarity and any bigger picture. Seldom are my statements or thoughts on any given topic set in stone, I attempt to see as many things from as many perspectives as possible, even if I do not agree with them. What we may know as fact today can easily and often changes. Too many things in life are relative to generally use such a way of thinking.

But again too many people seem to see the world in binary. No wonder the world is in such a state. That is the almost the exact reasoning that pirates use; that thinking pattern is subject to many of its faults. Inductive reasoning.

Oh be careful there Shadowfox, by you trying to understand Raven's views it may lead to the same witch hunt to be lead against you that I am currently experiencing at the moment.

I throw in the towel at this point. It is not wise to carry on smashing ones head against a wall. The wall will oft win. Now I remember why I vehemently dislike forums. Sadly this forum used to be so much more open minded.