Piracy in the gaming industry: Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?

I agree with Isengard here. It's the whole basis of whati've been trying to say. PC gamers get shafted because there the only ones who stand up for them selves.

When I 1st heard of MW2, I was really excited, the R500 pricetag would well have been worth the greatest game ever when I 1st heard about it. Than everything elce that was part of the game slowly got leeched away. Than I just got a R10 DVD, copied it from someone, and just played the SP because I was curious about what happened to Soap and the lot.

That is NOT worth R500. It was barely woth the DVD and the effort to put it on there.

Some games I'de gladly pay R1000 for. Even the PC versions. But games as great as those are become fewer and fewer. And I won't get a console because than I'll just be supporting that trend.

Gaming is my passion. It's almost a religeon to me. And it pisses me off when it gets flooded with heathens that don't apreciate it. If you're not going to do something because you love it, don't do it at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven Gold

Gaming is my passion. It's almost a religeon to me. And it pisses me off when it gets flooded with heathens that don't apreciate it. If you're not going to do something because you love it, don't do it at all.

---

Gamers who don't pay for their games don't appreciate them. The guy who buys Ponies IV is giving back more to the industry than you.

end of the day there must be balance ....
why are games pirated in the first place cause they are 2 expensive ....
We are gamers in fact PC gamers are the original gamers , last year I bought at least 8 games ...if they had to cost me R500 each that would be the same as buying a new LCD or better card , Why are they so expensive ....its a 2 rand disc in some packaging R100 bucks sounds fair .

If games become cheaper why would you need to pirate them

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venom

end of the day there must be balance ....
why are games pirated in the first place cause they are 2 expensive ....
We are gamers in fact PC gamers are the original gamers , last year I bought at least 8 games ...if they had to cost me R500 each that would be the same as buying a new LCD or better card , Why are they so expensive ....its a 2 rand disc in some packaging R100 bucks sounds fair .

If games become cheaper why would you need to pirate them

---

People will still pirate. As why should they pay a cent when they can just download it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venom

We are gamers in fact PC gamers are the original gamers

---

No. Gaming started on console. Do some history homework, please. :P

And if games are too expensive for you, find a hobby you can afford. Simple. If you took up golf, and couldn't afford the equipment, would you just walk into a shop and take it? Probably not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azimuth

And if games are too expensive for you, find a hobby you can afford. Simple. If you took up golf, and couldn't afford the equipment, would you just walk into a shop and take it? Probably not.

---

It's not about price and being able to afford it. It's about is the guy in the golf store busy smuggling drugs or ripping people off. Than I'de take the golf clubs (without paying) and smash the guy's face in.

The industry is starting to become corrupted. And there needs to be vigilantes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven Gold

It's not about price and being able to afford it. It's about is the guy in the golf store busy smuggling drugs or ripping people off. Than I'de take the golf clubs (without paying) and smash the guy's face in.

The industry is starting to become corrupted. And there needs to be vigilantes.

---

Your arguments are so completely retarded, there's no point in discussing this with you any further.

But I'll say this - you're a fucking parasite. You take, and you give nothing back. You are not a gamer. If you really feel that game companies are ripping you off, don't play their games. This business of stealing shit and pretending you're some sort of gentleman highwayman is absolute rubbish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsar

People will still pirate. As why should they pay a cent when they can just download it.

---

Have to agree with this - Even if AAA titles were released with a R99 price tag people would still pirate them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven Gold

It's not about price and being able to afford it. It's about is the guy in the golf store busy smuggling drugs or ripping people off. Than I'de take the golf clubs (without paying) and smash the guy's face in.

The industry is starting to become corrupted. And there needs to be vigilantes.

---

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

just waiting for the win reply of 'lets nationalise the publishers' or 'lets nationalise the developing houses'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azimuth

Gamers who don't pay for their games don't appreciate them. The guy who buys Ponies IV is giving back more to the industry than you.

---

then they come and complain that casual gaming is fuckering their AAA titles :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venom

Why are they so expensive ....its a 2 rand disc in some packaging R100 bucks sounds fair .

---

sure lets pay you R10 your days work... it seems fair:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necuno

there goes a lot of effort and time into making a game; art, music, video and actual programming. been thinking about how much should a developing house charge for a title to return their budget spent in creating it. one of the questions then would be how much should i pay per hour being entertained by the game ? R45 like a short movie ?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venom

If games become cheaper why would you need to pirate them

---

no V they wont ->

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MooDy

Have to agree with this - Even if AAA titles were released with a R99 price tag people would still pirate them.

---

exactly. who wants to pay R99 when you can dcc it for free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MooDy

:confused:

---

:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsar

Pffft all of you don't have my mighty stash of games. I still have most of my games. My hole chest of draws(six draws)are full of games, from heart of darkness(pc game) To S.T.A.L.K.E.R Call of pipyat(Must say best stalker game ever.)

---

we just don't feel the need to brag avoub it ;). still have my very first legal game in it's original form... star wars rebel assault 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven Gold

It's not about price and being able to afford it. It's about is the guy in the golf store busy smuggling drugs or ripping people off. Than I'de take the golf clubs (without paying) and smash the guy's face in.

The industry is starting to become corrupted. And there needs to be vigilantes.

---

After reading all of your drivel I got a big sense of deja vu and now I know why:

http://mickeys.co.za/wp-content/uplo...ius-malema.jpg

Just like our friend Julius you seem to have lost touch with reality and what is going on in the gaming industry. And it has made you arrogant delusional thinking that your some Robin Hood of the gaming industry. It is a sad day for the gaming industry when people like you are what represents the gamer as a consumer or should I say thief?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

After reading all of your drivel I got a big sense of deja vu and now I know why:

http://mickeys.co.za/wp-content/uplo...ius-malema.jpg

Just like our friend Julius you seem to have lost touch with reality and what is going on in the gaming industry. And it has made you arrogant delusional thinking that your some Robin Hood of the gaming industry. It is a sad day for the gaming industry when people like you are what represents the gamer as a consumer or should I say thief?

---

the fix to that is

http://www.mg.co.za/cartoons/05oct09xzapiro.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necuno

:confused:

---

Sorry Nec- but I'm still :confused:over the drug smuggling crack smoking golf shop assistant

Away for a few days and I miss all of this! YARR!!

Oh well, not to 'ye dead old horse', I do not agree with piracy in general. However, as deluded as Raven can sometimes sound, I can sort of understand the underlying sentiments. The industry is becoming more and more money mad. They seem to be always looking for a way to fleece another buck from the consumer. Not all the companies are as such, but I am ever seeing this as a growing trend. I would like to hope common sense will kick in sooner than later on the consumers behalf regarding voting with ones wallet, nevertheless it is not going to happen anytime soon when looking at gamers spending habit (Collectors Editions and such).

I do not mind the idea of pirating a game to 'try' it, but often human nature kicks in and once it is finished, a person would rather go buy something new than pay for something they just had.

On DRM and the like, I agree it is a vicious circle, but as much as it irks me sometimes, the publishers / developers have all the right to try protect their interest when confronted with the anonymity of piracy and its criminal mentality.

I personally think collectors editions are rubbish. Unless it has a stack full of goodies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

So you dont mind someone breaking into your house and "shares" your stuff? It boils down to the same thing, I think once people stop justifying what they do and be consumers like they are supposed to be things like piracy well lessen.

---

As long as they don't literally break anything and copy it instead of take it :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azimuth

Gamers who don't pay for their games don't appreciate them. The guy who buys Ponies IV is giving back more to the industry than you.

---

Oh how I lol'ed!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Away for a few days and I miss all of this! YARR!!I do not mind the idea of pirating a game to 'try' it, but often human nature kicks in and once it is finished, a person would rather go buy something new than pay for something they just had.

---

Do you walk into a car dealership steal a car off the showroom floor drive it around for a week decide if you like it then pay for it? If you want to "try" a game play the demo or borrow the game from a friend or even go rent it at BTgames. But this pirate and "try it" for awhile is one of the sorriest excuses ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

The industry is becoming more and more money mad. They seem to be always looking for a way to fleece another buck from the consumer. Not all the companies are as such, but I am ever seeing this as a growing trend.

---

So that gives him the right to take what is not his? Do you how much it cost to develop a game? A typical modern video game can cost from $1,000,000 to over $20,000,000 to develop . Now take that and times it by R7.6 and that is not even considering the advertising and PR that goes with it not to mention the packaging manuals and everything else that goes with it. Then there is import taxes and shipping fees all of these add up this isn't 1996 just like food and everything else the price of any goods will increase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development

If you can afford the consoles and the big screen tv`s you play it on not to mention paying for PC upgrades each year or less then you can afford to actually buy the games simple as that. To suggest otherwise would be hypocritical. The developers need to make money the gaming industry isn't a charity they aren't here to make us games at their loss or expense it is an entertainment form just like movies and if we want to keep seeing good AAA titles we have to pay simple as that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

I would like to hope common sense will kick in sooner than later on the consumers behalf regarding voting with ones wallet, nevertheless it is not going to happen anytime soon when looking at gamers spending habit (Collectors Editions and such).

---

I would gladly pay for my gaming habit, by buying a game you are showing support for your favorite developer which means you get better and better games and more sequels. But this vigilante piracy crap is what got the PC industry into the mess in the first place. Blame the developers? No no no. Lay the blame squarely on the gamers who keep on pirating and justifying it with their 5 grader excuses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

Do you walk into a car dealership steal a car off the showroom floor drive it around for a week decide if you like it then pay for it? If you want to "try" a game play the demo or borrow the game from a friend or even go rent it at BTgames. But this pirate and "try it" for awhile is one of the sorriest excuses ever.

---

FFS Larch stop equating copyright infringement with theft!
2nd, demos are not always released and I have played a few demos, gone an brought the game and been sorely disappointed, demos are just like movie trailers, how is borrowing a game from a friend and copying a game from a friend different? and BT games rent is only for console games

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

If you can afford the consoles and the big screen tv`s you play it on not to mention paying for PC upgrades each year or less then you can afford to actually buy the games simple as that. To suggest otherwise would be hypocritical.

---

You shitting me? Just because somebody can splurge on one thing doesn't mean he can on everything

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tpex

FFS Larch stop equating copyright infringement with theft!

---

So what do you call it when you take something without paying it? Taking something weather or not physical or digital is theft plain and simple. You are taking something that does not belong to you and that you haven't paid for ergo we call it theft. Downloading a game from a torrent is exactly the same as walking into a shop and stealing it from the display. Only reason why people can justify it so easily is because the chances of getting caught is slim and its easy to stay anonymous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tpex

2nd, demos are not always released and I have played a few demos, gone an brought the game and been sorely disappointed.

---

It is called reading reviews there is a single website dedicated to compiling all of the reviews and spitting out a average: http://www.metacritic.com/ Then there is forums like these were people talk and post about their favorite games, and word of mouth of course. SO by playing a demo reading some reviews and listening to word of mouth you can easily avoid buying crappy games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tpex

how is borrowing a game from a friend and copying a game from a friend different?

---

There is a massive difference. Borrowing a game is not piracy because you aren't making duplicates or copies. If you're borrowing a game from a friend, only one person can be playing that copy of the game at a time. The company is still getting their money's worth as they sold one game and one person is playing it. If you pirate a game and your friend buys the game, two people are playing the game and the company was only paid for one copy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tpex

and BT games rent is only for console games

---

Sucks to be you I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tpex

You shitting me? Just because somebody can splurge on one thing doesn't mean he can on everything

---

So you buy a Ferrari then bitch about how much petrol costs? lol! If you can spend money on upgrading a pc which we all know isn't cheap then you can pay for the games you play on it.

Ok, I've seen this argument countless times, both on our forums and on this one.
It seems some people are still unclear on the simple facts of how the gaming industry as a whole works.I've seen people argue that games are too expensive,that they aren't worth the retail pricetag and that DRM is not a viable solution.I've been approached by various local groups attempting to get iGame to host servers that are illegal or that require no cd key checks to play on.

My answer to all of these has always been :

STOP BEING AN IDIOT !

Games retail for their current value, both locally and internationally because they are a commodity, a format for digital entertainment delivery, the product of entire development teams working around the clock in an attempt at delivering a game that will be popular amongst the members of our little subculture.I used to work full time as a developer, still do some development in the little spare time I have and I can assure anyone who think that all developers sit around and play games all day that this is not the case.
It's hard work, just like any other.Frequent all nighters, insane deadlines and abusive publishers are some of the "perks" that development carries with it.

To have something you've worked months on, something you had to sacrifice for, sometimes on levels that a sub 21 year old simply cannot comprehend, simply copied and distributed over he internet or at LAN's is heart shattering.
Developers develop because they are passionate about gaming, you copy games because you are presumably so ignorant that you simply cannot fathom the impact every copied game has on the industry as a whole.

Why do we have DRM, DRM is a last ditch attempt at preventing situations where so called gamers are physically busy destroying an entire industry.
It is there so that the developers at the end of the day can afford not to drive that Porsche, but to feed his/her family.
By copying games you are not only further adding to this issue, you are making a direct attempt at taking someones livelihood, think about what that implies for a second and then start complaining about the fact that GFWL needs you to log in to save your games.
You are not only hurting the original developer and publishers, but on a local front, retailers are feeling this influx of piracy as well.
Retailers like Zaps, who deliver a quality service and go to extra ordinary lengths to be able to support the local gaming fraternity have their business stolen every time a game is copied as well.

As for games being worth less in overall experience than the retail price tag, if you can read you can find a review, if you can't understand the big words in the review itself, ask an adult to read it for you.


As for iGame, we will continue to decline offers to get involved with pirated or private servers and software of any kind.
We will continue to enforce cd key check on our servers, if that means that eventually no one plays on them, so be it.
We actively work with the BSA and SAFACT in an attempt to curb the influx of pirated software and online services into our little corner of the world.

In conclusion, if you think you are a hero for pirating games, I'll repeat my standardized response that that mindset

STOP BEING AN IDIOT !

Xerowing - well put. software developing is really hard work [software dev myself....] and that is just one part of which makes a game. there is also art and the composition of music for example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

Do you walk into a car dealership steal a car off the showroom floor drive it around for a week decide if you like it then pay for it? If you want to "try" a game play the demo or borrow the game from a friend or even go rent it at BTgames. But this pirate and "try it" for awhile is one of the sorriest excuses ever.

---

That was not my point. Besides whether pirating a game or borrowing it from a friend to see whether it is any decent has the EXACTLY the same effect of equaling NO money for the developers. And perhaps if you read my statement a liiiiiitle more carefully before leaping to your likely very worn out rocking-horse, you would have noticed that I am even in fact against the idea in reality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

So that gives him the right to take what is not his? Do you how much it cost to develop a game? A typical modern video game can cost from $1,000,000 to over $20,000,000 to develop . Now take that and times it by R7.6 and that is not even considering the advertising and PR that goes with it not to mention the packaging manuals and everything else that goes with it. Then there is import taxes and shipping fees all of these add up this isn't 1996 just like food and everything else the price of any goods will increase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_development

If you can afford the consoles and the big screen tv`s you play it on not to mention paying for PC upgrades each year or less then you can afford to actually buy the games simple as that. To suggest otherwise would be hypocritical. The developers need to make money the gaming industry isn't a charity they aren't here to make us games at their loss or expense it is an entertainment form just like movies and if we want to keep seeing good AAA titles we have to pay simple as that.

---

So just because X product cost 930987 bajillon dollarz! to produce does it make it fine slap whatever price they decide on it!?

Sure games are having bigger and bigger production values but that does NOT equate to true worth of a product. Now I know flashy graphics and cheap ploys may infatuate many a gamer, however I can see clearly that while the costs seem to be going up, the games are not necessarily getting any better besides from a technical aspect.

And my complaint against the pricing of games is not just directed at gaming itself but rather at this truly throwaway society of quick excesses. Products that include gaming, are getting steeper and steeper in pricing for items that do not scale well short term never mind long term. And as far as the devs and publishers making money. How much is truly enough? Now I understand there is a LOT at play regarding pricing, but honestly when is enough enough? The world does not run on magnanimous gestures, and to think that they are doing what is best for us in the majority of cases instead of lining their own pockets is in my opinion naive. But maybe I am just a pessimist.

I never said that the people making games should not be entitled to their pay.

And again read. I did NOT condone the opinions of Raven, I was just playing somewhat of a devils advocate because while I generally disagree with Raven's opinions, I can see some truth to some of the feelings held in some instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by larch

I would gladly pay for my gaming habit, by buying a game you are showing support for your favorite developer which means you get better and better games and more sequels. But this vigilante piracy crap is what got the PC industry into the mess in the first place. Blame the developers? No no no. Lay the blame squarely on the gamers who keep on pirating and justifying it with their 5 grader excuses.

---

Again, when is the price too much? When YOU find you can not afford something you could easily a few years back? Or when gaming is the sole hobby to the entitled few with enormous bank balances? My statement is blown out of proportion, which is perfect given the line of much of your reaction to my post

I do not condone piracy as much as I do not condone paying R100 for a McMeal Combo, even if it IS Super Sized.

P.S. And if that was not clear enough to cut through your more on than off Forum Rage:
I DO NOT CONDONE PIRACY.
I hope this last part helped some larch. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

That was not my point.

---

Then what is your point? Didn't you state you dont mind the idea to pirate a game to "try" it out first? Does it not come down to the very same point I made about stealing a car?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Besides whether pirating a game or borrowing it from a friend to see whether it is any decent has the EXACTLY the same effect of equaling NO money for the developers.

---

Borrowing it from a friend (a legal copy) means that it is a copy that was paid for. Your friend can't play it while you have it, and you can't play it once you return it to him. Those involved in creating and distributing the game have received the money they expected to receive from somebody using it, and they are happy. So no it is not the same, so in reality, you know the place without rainbows and unicorns piracy and borrowing a game is not the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And perhaps if you read my statement a liiiiiitle more carefully before leaping to your likely very worn out rocking-horse, you would have noticed that I am even in fact against the idea in reality.

---

But did you not state you like the idea to pirate and try it before buying it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

So just because X product cost 930987 bajillon dollarz! to produce does it make it fine slap whatever price they decide on it!? Sure games are having bigger and bigger production values but that does NOT equate to true worth of a product. Now I know flashy graphics and cheap ploys may infatuate many a gamer, however I can see clearly that while the costs seem to be going up, the games are not necessarily getting any better besides from a technical aspect.

---

Back to the thing we call reality, higher production values = higher cost. Taxes go up. Producing items gets more expensive, inflation changes the economy does not stay constant the market changes. That is economics one on one.

You must be living under a rock not to have noticed the leaps and bounds gaming has made the last couple of years and how many AAA titles we have been getting when compared the the PS2 and Xbox days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And my complaint against the pricing of games is not just directed at gaming itself but rather at this truly throwaway society of quick excesses. Products that include gaming, are getting steeper and steeper in pricing for items that do not scale well short term never mind long term.

---

If you want something long term get a pet fish gaming by nature is a short term hobby, you play game X finish it and move on to the next and maybe come back if there is some DLC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And as far as the devs and publishers making money. How much is truly enough? Now I understand there is a LOT at play regarding pricing, but honestly when is enough enough? The world does not run on magnanimous gestures, and to think that they are doing what is best for us in the majority of cases instead of lining their own pockets is in my opinion naive. But maybe I am just a pessimist.

---

Or maybe your just ignorant to the fact just how many hours/man power and money is involved in producing a AAA game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

And again read. I did NOT condone the opinions of Raven, I was just playing somewhat of a devils advocate because while I generally disagree with Raven's opinions, I can see some truth to some of the feelings held in some instances.

---

How can you label anything he says as the truth he views himself as some modern day robin hood vigilante who justifies his piracy of games as teaching a lesson to "greedy" developers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Again, when is the price too much? When YOU find you can not afford something you could easily a few years back? Or when gaming is the sole hobby to the entitled few with enormous bank balances? My statement is blown out of proportion, which is perfect given the line of much of your reaction to my post

---

Pro-tip if you can initially afford a new game there is many ways you can get the games you want and save money. Video games have always been an expensive hobby either deal with it or start collecting stamps.

You are unbelievably tedious larch. You have no ability to read between the lines, and can only use a polar thought process.

You like going in circles and you seem in awe of your own ideas to which I have yet to see any wiggle room for objective interpretation in regards to them. Its larch's way or "Get The F*%$$ Off The Forums" way. I guess for a person like you I would have to write a step by step, word for word process of my thought if I were ever to get you to maybe understand my opinions.

I have much better things to do than play "Quote Wars" on a forum. I have said what I wanted to even if it does not fit nicely into your small skew of things, or more likely you failed to understand what I was saying.

Feel free to tear this post apart per your normal endearing ways.

When I joined MyGaming in February I was actually quite pro-piracy. I didn't do it myself aside from downloading the occasional album and buying it later (for srs), but I didn't think it was a big deal and figured that if game developers were going to act like idiots and make their games suck in order to prevent piracy then by all means, buy a skull hat and wooden leg, it'll be fun.

Then I saw the articles on it and the effect it has. You can say that game developers go about preventing it in stupid ways, but rather cut the problem off at the source. Yes, I feel it is taken out of proportion and meaningless methods are implemented to prevent it, but that's like saying law enforcement isn't efficient and until it is I'll keep sodomizing my boys.

What shocks me the most is games being pirated before release. I believe this happened with Street Fighter IV and a few other games which I can't exactly remember, but there is no way to justify that or make it right, it's stealing and it's criminal at a new level. The point of downloading it without paying isn't THAT big if a deal but seriously, rather buy the game and support game makers. I feel it's as simple as that.

PS
To dissipate the tension I think tehNihilist and larch have some make up hugs coming <33

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

You are unbelievably tedious larch. You have no ability to read between the lines, and can only use a polar thought process.

You like going in circles and you seem in awe of your own ideas to which I have yet to see any wiggle room for objective interpretation in regards to them. Its larch's way or "Get The F*%$$ Off The Forums" way. I guess for a person like you I would have to write a step by step, word for word process of my thought if I were ever to get you to maybe understand my opinions.

I have much better things to do than play "Quote Wars" on a forum. I have said what I wanted to even if it does not fit nicely into your small skew of things, or more likely you failed to understand what I was saying.

Feel free to tear this post apart per your normal endearing ways.

---

How disappointing but not un-expected when someone looses the ground he stands on in a discussion he starts attacking the poster and not the opinion such a A-typical reaction.

Yes yes larch. I love you too.

Now back on topic people. Well that is unless you have an opinion that does not fall into larch's view. Not much of a discussion considering that you had made your mind up entirely before you even posted this topic (and many others). These are not discussions or debates, just trolls so larch can climb into you if you think otherwise on the topic.

Black / White
Wrong / Right
larch's opinion / everything else

In closing - I do not support piracy like I have said many times already. I just think it is not as clear as some people may think it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

Yes yes larch. I love you too.

Now back on topic people. Well that is unless you have an opinion that does not fall into larch's view. Not much of a discussion considering that you had made your mind up entirely before you even posted this topic (and many others). These are not discussions or debates, just trolls so larch can climb into you if you think otherwise on the topic.

Black / White
Wrong / Right
larch's opinion / everything else

In closing - I do not support piracy like I have said many times already. I just think it is not as clear as some people may think it is.

---

ag shame the baby is crying foul :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

I do not mind the idea of pirating a game to 'try' it, but often human nature kicks in and once it is finished, a person would rather go buy something new than pay for something they just had.

---

sorry bob that is pretty much saying that pirating is ok ;)

should i also download a flick to try it first?
how bout stealing candy from a kid to try it first?

next time i think i'm going to drink the milk first in the shop too :D

Even if the publishers "backed down", the pirates wouldn't. Some would, but the reality is most people would be petty criminals if basic laws weren't enforced. That's the situation with piracy, its like a big looting zerg and the only reason not to partake are your morals/conscience. "If your clued up enough to upgrade your video card to play games, your clued up enough to pirate them."

In the short term, the publishers STILL need to back down because they aren't even slowing down piracy. All they are doing is hurting their legit customers, I dare say they may even be giving a few of them incentive to go investigate this piracy thing. If they back down they may even win back the odd ex-legit customer. They should also focus more on giving big incentive to purchase the original copy (multiplayer, extra free content on registration etc.).

In the long term, the laws around piracy and internet laws need to be taken back to the drawing board. The only way to significantly slow it down at this point is to be able to hold torrent sites (piratebay), news groups/services (giganews), p2p sharing services (kazaa), file sharing sites (rapidshare) etc. responsible. If those sites are actively forced to pull down pirated content (much like Youtube is forced to pull videos with copyright infringements), piracy WILL take a very hefty hit.

I'm not going to say anything major here - I think this thread covered all the bases and from what I can see it's descending into name-calling and random arguments again - and if someone wants to decry the name-calling I'll be happy to quote.

First - I don't condone piracy. I've been guilty of it in the past, but i make every effort to buy a game I want, and if I'm not certain that I want it I'll make every effort to borrow a copy (legal) from a mate and get some playtime in. However - even here we tend to run into DRM issues sometimes.

DRM, in my view, has made piracy worse. I understand that publishers are trying to protect their revenue stream, but DRM hits the consumer who buys the product, and has no effect on the pirates. Really. The toughest DRM in the world is usually cracked within a few days of release, if not before. And the owner of the legal copy, rightfully, gets pissed off because he is the guy who gets treated like a criminal.

If DRM bothers you, if you can't be assured of steady connections and whatever other factors may be involved in buying a game, go ahead and buy the game - and then get hold of a cracked copy to play. That way, you've done your bit to support the developers, and you've made life easier for yourself at the same time. I'm sure that will get its own set of arguments though ... feel free.

However, Raven, I understand your sentiments, and those of the guys who have issues with game pricing - unfortunately, I can't agree with them. If you can't afford the game, or you are not willing to pay the price, don't buy the game, and don't pirate it either. Just go without. Whether gaming is your passion (or your life, if you want to put it that way), you won't die without it. I'm not a doctor, but I can pretty much guarantee you'll live.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necuno

ag shame the baby is crying foul :D



sorry bob that is pretty much saying that pirating is ok ;)

should i also download a flick to try it first?
how bout stealing candy from a kid to try it first?

next time i think i'm going to drink the milk first in the shop too :D

---

This is utterly pointless trying explaining things to people who cannot understand what I am saying. From now on maybe I had better start using kindergarten talk to make sure nothing is left open to any interpretation.

Notice: I do not mind (that does NOT suggest I fully agree with piracy)the idea of pirating a game to 'try' it, but often human nature kicks in and once it is finished, a person would rather go buy something new than pay for something they just had. (Now most importantly read the second portion. I am saying, in simple terms that maybe you idiots may understand, that people who say they will buy a game after pirate testing it never actually do! Like wow! So now I partially agree with piracy in the first segment, then almost totally retract my idea in the latter!)

I am saying I think that in theory the idea may work but it does NOT in reality! People need to read, comprehend, THEN post. Seems so many people just see select flags and then proceed to go off on an attack, which smacks of a lack of clarity and any bigger picture. Seldom are my statements or thoughts on any given topic set in stone, I attempt to see as many things from as many perspectives as possible, even if I do not agree with them. What we may know as fact today can easily and often changes. Too many things in life are relative to generally use such a way of thinking.

But again too many people seem to see the world in binary. No wonder the world is in such a state. That is the almost the exact reasoning that pirates use; that thinking pattern is subject to many of its faults. Inductive reasoning.

Oh be careful there Shadowfox, by you trying to understand Raven's views it may lead to the same witch hunt to be lead against you that I am currently experiencing at the moment.

I throw in the towel at this point. It is not wise to carry on smashing ones head against a wall. The wall will oft win. Now I remember why I vehemently dislike forums. Sadly this forum used to be so much more open minded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tehNihilist

This is utterly pointless trying explaining things to people who cannot understand what I am saying

---

seems to be you issue here too ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necuno

seems to be you issue here too ;)

---

Jeez Larch, since when do you have a "me-too"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strifehart

Jeez Larch, since when do you have a "me-too"?

---

pffft. no cheezeburgrz fir you mr Air :D


btw, afaik fire is red not air....

This is air : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...symbol.svg.png

Nice try though. :P

own article eh?

Fail detected

http://www.prophecy.co.za/forums/top...hed-a-new-low/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tank

Fail detected

---

When proving "fail", ensure links to proof work.

The link is valid, it's just not visible to non-registered and authorised peoples.

I'll wait for Cpt Crunch to repost here. Either way, this is gonna be... interesting.

/stands back and waits for the fireworks show...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blackhand

Even if the publishers "backed down", the pirates wouldn't. Some would, but the reality is most people would be petty criminals if basic laws weren't enforced. That's the situation with piracy, its like a big looting zerg and the only reason not to partake are your morals/conscience. "If your clued up enough to upgrade your video card to play games, your clued up enough to pirate them."

---

I'm inclined to disagree with you here - I mean, I don't pirate anything at all ever despite having the means to do so - but I think you're probably right. Just look at any disaster-stricken area, and the first thing everyone does is loot. It's a sad indictment of the human condition, isn't it? :/

Quote:

---

In the short term, the publishers STILL need to back down because they aren't even slowing down piracy. All they are doing is hurting their legit customers, I dare say they may even be giving a few of them incentive to go investigate this piracy thing. If they back down they may even win back the odd ex-legit customer. They should also focus more on giving big incentive to purchase the original copy (multiplayer, extra free content on registration etc.).

---

I do agree that DRM doesn't work. It really only affects the legitimate customers, which is ultimately self-defeating. I do, however, think it's a shame that developers and publishers are now looking to include incentives to purchase - shouldn't doing the right thing and buying be enough? That's idealistic, of course, but again, a sad indictment of the human condition.

And tehNihilist: I kinda get what you're saying. To me, the ends of piracy - buying or not buying a game - are pretty much black and white. But it's not quite as simple as that in practice, ever. I mean, I'm sure loads of kids pirate simply because they want to play games and can't afford them, for example. Now, I think that if you can't afford something, you just can't have it. But like so many other things, that's easier said than done. So yes, it's a complex issue. I don't think there's ever a good reason to pirate something, but I think some reasons are better than others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skurm

The link is valid, it's just not visible to non-registered and authorised peoples.

I'll wait for Cpt Crunch to repost here. Either way, this is gonna be... interesting.

/stands back and waits for the fireworks show...

---

Quote:

---

An Error Occurred

Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

[#103149] Please request access to this forum via the "Subscriptions" tab in the top nav bar of the forums.

---

subs only takes me to classifieds or i need more coffee... :confused:

ahh that's the problem, it's posted in the flame zone...