The supposed "decline of PC gaming"

They need to start focusing on making games that suit the PC platform. Companies look at PCs in the same light as consoles. A medium for mass producing games to sell to the average lemming and make massive profits. Just won't work on PC.

Small dedicated developers making games aimed at specific markets, flight simulators being an example, for a modest profit is where they should be heading.

Do PC games today make less money than games did in 90s (adjusted for inflation etc)? I doubt it.

A game developed in the 90's may have needed a budget of $300,000 and recouped $2 million. Now you need $10 million and look to recoup say 3 or 4 times that for a very successful product. It's difficult to compare but you need a far higher budget which makes it difficult to cater for niche markets.

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Originally Posted by jasong

A game developed in the 90's may have needed a budget of $300,000 and recouped $2 million. Now you need $10 million and look to recoup say 3 or 4 times that for a very successful product. It's difficult to compare but you need a far higher budget which makes it difficult to cater for niche markets.

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I doubt that. A small group of dedicated individuals would be able to produce quality games for a fraction of the cost of major developers.

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Originally Posted by Alan

I doubt that. A small group of dedicated individuals would be able to produce quality games for a fraction of the cost of major developers.

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There is a thriving independent gaming community but to create a graphically challenging game nowadays is very expensive.

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Originally Posted by jasong

There is a thriving independent gaming community but to create a graphically challenging game nowadays is very expensive.

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Ah but that is my point. They shouldn't be attempting "graphically challenging" games. They should be focusing on other areas like in depth storylines and characters. They must appeal to a different market. The market is there it's supposedly not as profitable though.

For example look at simulators/realistic games. A PC based market. In the past games like Rainbow Six/Ghost Recon/Operation Flashpoint were developed for this market. The people who buy these games are fanatical( I know I'm into it myself) supporters of these developers. Nobody produces games for them anymore( beside the Armed Assault developers who tried to do too much. Particularly regarding graphics) . They're desperate for somebody to develop games for them. They'll buy the games no need to worry about piracy.

IMO cut development costs drastically and cater to PC gamer markets ignored since the rise of console's mainstream success. Rather that than spending massive amounts of money on games that will need incredibly intrusive anti piracy measures that chase gamers into the arms of pirates or consoles. In any case most buy those games on consoles to start with.

Just wait till they hit the brick wall for graphics and then we will see good games.

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Originally Posted by Alan

Ah but that is my point. They shouldn't be attempting "graphically challenging" games. They should be focusing on other areas like in depth storylines and characters. They must appeal to a different market. The market is there it's supposedly not as profitable though.

For example look at simulators/realistic games. A PC based market. In the past games like Rainbow Six/Ghost Recon/Operation Flashpoint were developed for this market. The people who buy these games are fanatical( I know I'm into it myself) supporters of these developers. Nobody produces games for them anymore( beside the Armed Assault developers who tried to do too much. Particularly regarding graphics) . They're desperate for somebody to develop games for them. They'll buy the games no need to worry about piracy.

IMO cut development costs drastically and cater to PC gamer markets ignored since the rise of console's mainstream success. Rather that than spending massive amounts of money on games that will need incredibly intrusive anti piracy measures that chase gamers into the arms of pirates or consoles. In any case most buy those games on consoles to start with.

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Mm interesting point - I'd like to see some numbers to back that up. How did sim-heavy games like ARMA2 or HAWX do recently?

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Just wait till they hit the brick wall for graphics and then we will see good games.

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There is no brick wall.

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Originally Posted by jasong

Mm interesting point - I'd like to see some numbers to back that up. How did sim-heavy games like ARMA2 or HAWX do recently?

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Not sure. ARMA2 suffered from over ambition. Again trying to take on the big developers in a sense which I think hurt their sales with enthusiasts. HAWX isn't a simulator. People who are into simulators like IL2 Sturmovik wouldn't touch HAWX.

These types of games were developed in the 90s. The market is there if anything it's even bigger now. Those developers got by on their sales then so why not now. It's because everybody judges success and viability by the mega profits gained by hugely expensive franchises on consoles.

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Originally Posted by jasong

There is no brick wall.

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XBox360/PS3 is the current brick wall. Until the 2 consoles get updated with new hardware, we'll be stuck at seeing those types of gfx.

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Originally Posted by Cloudster

the warcraft 3 beta was also cracked as quickly. i can guarantee you that when the beta is over alot of the people who downloaded the cracked beta will move onto the battle.net servers with original products.

i downloaded and played the war 3 beta on the ZA servers setup by local guys.... everyone on there knew it was just a temporary thing. more than 90% of the guys i knew on those servers went on to buy the original so we could play on the proper servers.

with battle.net 2 being as awesome as i hear it is.... i am quite confident that many of the players playing the cracked beta will buy the original.

the sales will speak for themselves i reckon.

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Point is, its not what us gamers see but what the devs and publishers see. They see crackers already hard at work 'stealing' their software. So why should they support this foul community?

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XBox360/PS3 is the current brick wall. Until the 2 consoles get updated with new hardware, we'll be stuck at seeing those types of gfx.

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He meant brick wall in terms of graphical limits

T

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hese types of games were developed in the 90s. The market is there if anything it's even bigger now. Those developers got by on their sales then so why not now. It's because everybody judges success and viability by the mega profits gained by hugely expensive franchises on consoles.

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Ok that's a good point I suppose, I'd like to see some numbers still - there must be an example of a strong niche market classic game.

Look to an extent the sales figures for PC belie the true story - if a game doesn't sell it's blamed on the decline of PC gaming - whereas other statistics show that in certain fields PC gaming outstrips consoles by magnitudes. Are there any devs still producing these kinds of games? From my consideration it's mainly just the mod community...

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Originally Posted by RoosTa

Another strike for PC gaming; Starcraft 2 beta cracked.

Don't these folks realise they shooting themselves in the foot? Soon there will be nothing left for them to crack. :rolleyes:

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Pirates have never cared about anyone but themselves. If pc gaming dies they will move on and start cracking console games, they already do they will just start focusing more on it .