Balance in games - is it done right?

[Subversion]

Look at the end of the day, I've obviously hit a wrong nerve somewhere.

We're probably not going to agree on this one. You seem to have misunderstood a lot of the things I was trying to say, perhaps its my fault for not being clear enough.

The only truly objective "factual" claims I am trying to make is that in competitive arenas, these games have a lot less options than they do in their "casual" form. Whether it be because only some of the options are actually used, such as CS 1.6 or SSF4, or because modders have taken them out, such as CoD4, my point is that they are not viable competitively. I am not saying that the game genres I mentioned are not balanced, because they are, in one way or another. But my issue is that this balance comes at the sacrifice of large portions of the game, which doesn't happen in the other genres I contrasted.

What I'd like is a competitive environment where every available option has its own viability. Perhaps you disagree, and think things are fine the way they are. That's okay, everyone is entitled to their own feelings on the matter, and perhaps most people who play these games competitively are happy with the status quo, and don't actually care. But this is my opinion, and thats what a column is all about. I don't think any of the things I meant to be "fact" were grossly incorrect, and some people seem to have taken my subjective opinions as some kind of objective claim.

Finally, there is a fine line between passion and aggression, and if you would like to engage in a debate, I ask that you do it maturely, instead of resorting to personal insult and inflammatory speech. I am always happy to discuss and/or defend the things that I write.

[Xero]

My issue arose from the fact that you, in Broad strokes make certain statements that are contrary to the actual systems used and/or are completely and simply not true.

I myself as part of the RSP program for certain Publishers/Developers spend countless hours working with these Developers/Publishers on exactly the same things you say are simply not happening.
As stated there would be no issue had you not made these statements or if you had researched the topic before hand, as you would have found that those statements are not based on any type of factual information whatsoever.

In regards to engaging in a debate, there is no point, you stick to your non factual statements and then pass them off as being based on opinion and nothing more, I can't change that.
Nowhere have you substantiated your claims in regards to the apparent lack of balancing in any way, shape or form with actual facts relating to the subject matter.
You say post release balancing doesn't happen, I have demonstrated that it does, yet you cling to these statements for some unknown reason and now in your last post reword your statement to include

"I am not saying that the game genres I mentioned are not balanced, because they are, in one way or another"
which is 100% contrary to your original stance on the subject and when compared to your statement about post release balancing simply not happening.

In regards to inflammator speech, no problem there either, I stated you did not know the subject matter you were attempting to discuss and had done absolutely no research in regards to the topic, you feel differently, once again, nothing I can do to change that apprently because you still fail to acknowledge that you were indeed incorrect in stating them.

[Subversion]

You've totally misunderstood everything I've said.

I stated that the way in which games are balanced is by taking out a large portion of their content. I want games where every aspect of it is balanced.

You're saying this "imbalanced" balancing, or balance gradient, is done intentionally, I'm saying I don't like it, and I don't like the end result.

I'm not saying balance isn't finally achieved, I'm saying the way in which it is achieved isn't optimal. And I truly do believe thats what I've said all along.

[hideinlight]

I dunno, Yes it might contribute to the longevity of the title, but, some of the most balanced games are also some of the most boring ?
Take Frontlines , game was uber balanced but never really had any players over a longer period of time.
No argument on HoN though, it is probably one of the best looked after and supported titles of our time, my argument was over the FPS titles and devs and RSP's that spend a lot of time collecting data for balancing and then being singled out.

Also remember, Activision now follows a different approach to releasing titles, they focus on Pushing content and then expanding with DLC , so they won't do too much balancing on a title when they simply revitalize player numbers by releasing a few rebuilt maps

Btw, you mentioned a UT3 Modifier you were working on?
Any details?

Writing the changelog for it atm and thinking of a new name.

Most weapons have a killshot effect, in other words killed pawns go flying through the air when killed instead of just falling over.

Enforcers
Primary
Fireinterval(0) = +0.400 (+0.360)
Damage=18(20)

Secondary
Damage=18(20)
Now has 2 burst shots instead of 3
Fireinterval = +0.150 (+0.120) 

Dual Enforcers:
DualEquipTime = 0.8 (1.0)
Burstcooldown = 0.8 (0.97)
Decreased firing rate, increased overall accuracy

Stinger

Primary:
Damage: 12(14)
Fire Interval: 0.125(0.100)


Shock Rifle

Secondary
Speed 1050(1150)
Combo Damage = 200(215)
Damage = 50(55)

Increased collision size to 18(16) and made the shockball 85% of it's original visual size
to give a more accurate representation of what to shoot.

LinkGun


Secondary:
WeaponLinkRange = 250(160)
Removed movement lockdown.
Bots now use secondary between range 650->1000. Normally they would use it within 900 range of
the enemy. And they don't miss...

Flak Cannon

Primary:
Removed the mega bonus damage from the center shard.
Damage is reduced when shard bounches
No bounce = 18
1 bounce = 13
2 bounces = 10

Projectile speed is more in line with the U2004 counterpart.
Speed = 2500(3500)
MaxSpeed = 2700(3500) 

Secondary:
Changed projectle trajectory so that it fires from the crosshair.
DamageRadius 220(200)
Damage = 90(100)


BioRifle

Primary
Damage 28(21)

Secondary
lifetime = 6(20)

Rocket Launcher
Primary
damage 100(no change)
Speed 1410(1350)

Loaded Rockets
Damage per rocket = 80
speed 1350 (no change)

Heatseeking Rockets
Damage per tocket = 80

Grenades
Changed trajectory and gravity settings.
DamageRadius = 300(200)

Sniper Rifle
	HeadshotScale while scoped = 1.25(1.75)
	RunningHeadshotScale = 1.00(0.8)

[Xero]

Looks pretty intereseting Hide, you testing on locally hosted custom servers?

[Raven Gold]

You're not hearing me. Start round. Blink. Dead. As in dead <1 sec from round start. You know where the team starts the round, all on one pile? Thats where the toob hits. Hence 5-6 kills with a single tube.

Nades only start arriving >5 seconds into the round (5 sec fuse ). Because they have less forward momentum they A) fly slower B) need a higher trajectory C) don't have the range to hit the opposing round start point without both teams running towards each in the first few seconds.

With a tube used as described you've got <1 second, which isn't enough to clear the tube AoE. i.e. There is *nothing* you can do to prevent dying.


uhmm wtf dude?

One second is more than enough time to get out of your spawn. It is, in fact more than enough time to get half way across the map. If you hear that "pop" and see that smoke trail over the hill, don't just sit and stare at it, turn to the left and haul ass and before you know it, you'll be behind the guy with the launcher and sticking a knife in his neck.

I'll give you that it might happen at the very start of the map on the first round of something like S&D and Sabotage, but if you let it happen to you again, you have nobody to blame but your self for falling for it.

[Xero]

That's one of the best ways to circumvent the damage done by Tubes in CoD, they travel pretty slowly and can easily be dodged, making you not only look cool , but uppng your +Nerd Skill by One level for each successful dodge.

That's also the primary reason why most players eventually give up on using the nade launcher, you are slow and vulnerable when using it, you are also instantly the most unpopular guy on the map

[Raven Gold]

I never give up on a launcher. It's a very handy tool for clearing out that bugger held up in a building with claymores. I don't just blow my two rounds willy nilly.

[HavocXphere]

One second is more than enough time to get out of your spawn.

Maybe your definition of "one second" differs from mine...

turn to the left and haul ass

Nope. Entire team starts round in one big pile, so I've got a noob on my left who is still looking for his WASD keys & blocking my way when the tube hits.

[Subversion]

I never give up on a launcher. It's a very handy tool for clearing out that bugger held up in a building with claymores. I don't just blow my two rounds willy nilly.

So YOU'RE the one