Flat Earth

[shadowfox]

But how do you use it to prove it?

Gravity? That could also exist on a flat earth.

Firstly - millions of people have been flying West out of the United States to Aus/NZ/Japan, which maps tell us lie east of us.

Secondly - if you don't have a terrible fear of heights and get on a plane one day, look out the window. The curvature of the horizon is stupidly apparent once the aircraft is at cruising altitude. I'll leave it to you to prove that flying has also not been scientifically proven yet.

Thirdly - I believe this entire thread is a troll thread, and we have all be trolled. This hasn't been scientifically proven yet - this is based solely on a religious belief tied to a religion that I have recently (2 minutes ago) invented and which hasn't been named yet.

In any case - a liberal dose of courage (and smoking of socks) led me to the site where I see this

Samuel Rowbotham's Flat Earth views were 1. based largely on literal interpretation of Bible passages. His system, called Zetetic Astronomy, held that the earth is a flat disk centered at the North Pole and 2. bounded along its southern edge by a wall of ice, with the 3. sun, moon, planets, and stars 4. only a few hundred miles above the surface of the earth. After Rowbotham's death in 1884, followers of his Zetetic Astronomy founded the Universal Zetetic Society.

1. Oh ... yawn
2. Antarctica might seem like a wall of ice until you realise it's possible to friggin sail around it
3&4. Ouch ...

Well ... it originated in the early 1800's, when despite some scientific jumps people were still largely ignorant, and also before some pair of dudes found the South Pole on the other side of that "wall of ice". And its being revived in the US, where despite some scientific jumps people are still largely ig ... oh wait ... I'm repeating myself.

[Prometheus]

Firstly - Millions of people could be confused. Give most people a compass and they wouldn't have an idea where west is.

Secondly - I once had someone tell me that the curvature of the earth actually can't be seen even from a plane. Though most people believe they can see the horizon out at see it is actually much the same refractive effect that makes it appear blue. Doing a geometric calculation you should be able to see out further from a plane than you do, but at a certain angle light reflects off all surfaces and appears as a white-blue horizon. There's actually more within line of sight than what we can see.

Thirdly - I do believe this thread was started with the intention to show there are still people believing the world is flat. I can't prove that but it's just my opinion.

I don't know about Rowbotham but in the 18th century there wasn't even a space age so there might have well been a lot of people believing it was flat. I was just saying that if someone still believes this it doesn't necessarily mean they are crazy. Apart from going to the moon no evidence will be absolutely irrefutable to everyone. Even then they could claim they went straight up. So I was just saying everyone may have their own standard for the evidence.

Me, I believe the earth is round because the Bible tells us so

peace

[shadowfox]

Firstly - Millions of people could be confused. Give most people a compass and they wouldn't have an idea where west is.

Secondly - I once had someone tell me that the curvature of the earth actually can't be seen even from a plane. Though most people believe they can see the horizon out at see it is actually much the same refractive effect that makes it appear blue. Doing a geometric calculation you should be able to see out further from a plane than you do, but at a certain angle light reflects off all surfaces and appears as a white-blue horizon. There's actually more within line of sight than what we can see.

Thirdly - I do believe this thread was started with the intention to show there are still people believing the world is flat. I can't prove that but it's just my opinion.

I don't know about Rowbotham but in the 18th century there wasn't even a space age so there might have well been a lot of people believing it was flat. I was just saying that if someone still believes this it doesn't necessarily mean they are crazy. Apart from going to the moon no evidence will be absolutely irrefutable to everyone. Even then they could claim they went straight up. So I was just saying everyone may have their own standard for the evidence.

Me, I believe the earth is round because the Bible tells us so

peace

Firstly, those millions of people include some pretty damn clever people - it's not only idiots that fly. And I can point out west without the aid of a compass - also note that a compass doesn't point true direction - there's deviation.

Secondly - someone also once told you that the curvature can be seen from a plane. That was me ... just now. It's visible both at land and at sea.

Finally - there'll be religious differences involved - the Qu'ran (spelling?) for instance states quite definitely that the earth is round, while the Bible says it's flat. I find that somewhat humourous. Especially considering that both books were written before people sailed around the world. Then again, the Middle East was the birthplace of modern astronomy and mathematics.

Also, forgive me for not ever paying attention to anything stated in the Bible - ever.

[Voicy]

Shadowfox, you're being trolled like a pro.

Didn't you know the earth is flat - and also only 6011 years old?

(Before we erupt from the_lulz, try and keep any form of religious comments away from this forum, it never ends well.)

To humour the troll: My only question to the flat earth society is this ... where's the middle of the earth? GMT? Also, if we're flat, why isn't it daytime for everyone at the same time?

Actually nevermind, my brain is starting to fizzle just thinking about the amount of physics that needs to be disproved in order to even gesture the thought of a flat earth. Damnit, I've been trolled. >_<

[Fivel]

If this is the same Prometheus from MYBB, then bale out of this discussion now!

[shadowfox]

Shadowfox, you're being trolled like a pro.

I did say "we all got trolled" in my initial post

To humour the troll: My only question to the flat earth society is this ... where's the middle of the earth? GMT? Also, if we're flat, why isn't it daytime for everyone at the same time?

My religion states that everything revolves around me, thus I am the center of the earth. Which is also round at the same time. Also, gravity is a figment of your imagination - we're stuck to the planet because it sucks so much

[Ichigo]

Firstly, those millions of people include some pretty damn clever people - it's not only idiots that fly. And I can point out west without the aid of a compass - also note that a compass doesn't point true direction - there's deviation.

Secondly - someone also once told you that the curvature can be seen from a plane. That was me ... just now. It's visible both at land and at sea.

Finally - there'll be religious differences involved - the Qu'ran (spelling?) for instance states quite definitely that the earth is round, while the Bible says it's flat. I find that somewhat humourous. Especially considering that both books were written before people sailed around the world. Then again, the Middle East was the birthplace of modern astronomy and mathematics.

Also, forgive me for not ever paying attention to anything stated in the Bible - ever.

Umm the Christian bible says the earth is round so where did you see it stating it was flat?

You may be surprised to learn that the Bible revealed that the earth is round. Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. Today, we chuckle at the people of the fifteenth century who feared sailing because they thought they would fall over the edge of the flat earth. Yet the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV)
"He spreads out the northern [skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing" (Job 26:7, NIV)

I was there when he established the heavens, when he drew the horizon on the oceans. (Prov 8:27, NLT)

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22 NIV)

He who builds his lofty palace in the heavens and sets its foundation on the earth, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out over the face of the land--the LORD is his name (Amos 9:6)

[Avatar]

Firstly - millions of people have been flying West out of the United States to Aus/NZ/Japan, which maps tell us lie east of us.

Actually, that depends on whose map you use. In Asia it is not unheard of using maps with Asia in the centre, in stead of the Euro-centric maps we inhereted. See this page for an example.

Not that this affects the point you're making one little bit

@Prometheus: You can see the curvature of the earth by the shadow it forms on the moon, every month. The ancients also took the fact that every celestial body they could find in the sky was round as a clue.

[shadowfox]

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Dunno about you ... but I see circles as 2 dimensional objects - flat, in other words. If that passage had said sphere - it would be a whole different story. Regardless, that particular passage has spawned so many arguments already - both sides use that one line as proof that swings their arguments either way. Also ... look at the quote I used earlier -

Samuel Rowbotham's Flat Earth views were based largely on literal interpretation of Bible passages.

And there's a ton of other passages in the Bible that, when interpreted literally, state the earth is flat. The phrase "he suspends the earth over nothing" means nothing and could simply have meant the earth was pancake shaped. And so many times are the phrases "four corners of the earth" and "ends of the earth" used.

Of course, this could all simply amount to errors in translation and retranslation - but we should also keep in mind that the Bible was written by people for whom the concept of a spherical planet didn't exist, and they were very likely to couch it in terms they could understand.

I tend to laugh at people who use literal translations of the Bible anyways.

[Ichigo]

Dunno about you ... but I see circles as 2 dimensional objects - flat, in other words. If that passage had said sphere - it would be a whole different story. Regardless, that particular passage has spawned so many arguments already - both sides use that one line as proof that swings their arguments either way. Also ... look at the quote I used earlier -



And there's a ton of other passages in the Bible that, when interpreted literally, state the earth is flat. The phrase "he suspends the earth over nothing" means nothing and could simply have meant the earth was pancake shaped. And so many times are the phrases "four corners of the earth" and "ends of the earth" used.

Of course, this could all simply amount to errors in translation and retranslation - but we should also keep in mind that the Bible was written by people for whom the concept of a spherical planet didn't exist, and they were very likely to couch it in terms they could understand.

I tend to laugh at people who use literal translations of the Bible anyways.

Four Corners of the earth means North, South, East, West

And the writers in those days didn't know the word Sphere so that was the closest way they could explain it.

When he says it hangs "he suspends the earth over nothing" it is describing how the earth is held by gravity in the orbit around the sun. They did not know what exactly gravity was in the days they wrote it.

When reading the bible people can't presume since they never used our modern words that they aren't talking about it in their known language.

It was mostly in Aramaic and hebrew so it could have lost it's meaning through the translation.

Read this to understand what I am saying
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html