I agree with what you have said Magnarmalok but if I continue with Dragon Soul Heroics at this point, I'll commit seppuku. I'm just messing around with Dragon Nest until DIII, when our 10 man raiding team (and probably most of our guild) will be playing DIII together). I guess PvP is the only "competitive" aspect of Dragon Nest, but it's definitely fun doing hard Nests with a party.