New SA law will make it illegal for parents to spank their children at home

[Draegan]

Well, this just seals the deal. I was undecided if I ever wanted kids, but now I know that I cannot raise kids in this country...

[weakest_link]

idiot goverment, that is all i can say

[Dan]

While I don't agree with the government telling me what I can or cannot do with my kids (should I ever have any), I don't buy the "spare the rod, spoil the child" argument. I was regularly klapped as a kid, as most of us were who grew up in those times, but it only taught me to fear my old man instead of respect him. He was essentially a bully, and if I'd been smart enough then to call him out on it, we probably would've had a far better relationship.

Coincidentally, I read this exact same sentiment on reddit a couple weeks ago. The gist of the discussion:

(chikinpickle)
I was spanked as a kid by my dad. My mom gave me timeouts. Guess who I mouthed off too?

(anonymouslayabout)
Statements like this fucking anger me. You did not mouth off to your mom because your dad hit you. You mouthed off to your mom because you had no respect for her and you were afraid of your dad.

You can teach kids respect without fucking hitting them. If you get a puppy, do you hit it to teach it respect? No, because puppies don't understand that shit, just that you are hitting them and they are scared. Kids can rationalize a bit more, but are generally the same.

If you take the puppy and give it firm boundaries and limitations, it will listen to you and respect you. You can sure as fuck teach it not to pull on the leash, not to chew, not to jump on people, and not to piss in the house without ever hitting it. I've done it a thousand times.

So why, then, would you hit a kid to teach it stuff when a kid has FAR more ability to reason and learn than a dog? Are you really such a shitty teacher that this is how you need to impart your lessons? Are you really so incompetent that you feel it necessary to make a smaller being afraid of you so it will 'respect' you? Let me tell you something: that's not respect. It's fear.

If you need to hit your kid to earn 'respect', I feel sorry for the kid because you are a shitty parent. This is also why every parent should be required to raise a puppy before they are even allowed near a kid.

sauce

[Wyzak]

While I don't agree with the government telling me what I can or cannot do with my kids (should I ever have any), I don't buy the "spare the rod, spoil the child" argument. I was regularly klapped as a kid, as most of us were who grew up in those times, but it only taught me to fear my old man instead of respect him. He was essentially a bully, and if I'd been smart enough then to call him out on it, we probably would've had a far better relationship.

Sorry to hear that, but it sounds like your father then overstepped the border. I don't feel the same way at all towards my father or my mother who spanked me.

[Mephisto_Helix]

Yeah, I don't buy the hippy bullshit angle at all. Sure, some chops have and will overstep the line but the affected cannot make it about the majority and the majority had spankings and everything was fine.

My Mom handled way more discipline than my dad and I have zero disrespect for her ........

It's a stupid law, end of

[Dan]

Sorry to hear that, but it sounds like your father then overstepped the border.

Not at all. I only ever got a smack when I did something that deserved punishment. My point though is that my old man could've easily substituted respect and teaching for a quick klap.

Exhibit A: Growing up, we had a lemon tree in the garden. One day I decided to chuck a lemon at my neighbour's house and it smashed one of the windows. Guess what happened? I got hit as punishment.

Could there have been a more effective solution to the problem? Of course. My dad could've made me go over to apologise in person; I feared the humiliation more than the smack. I then could've been made to pay for the damage, an arguably more significant punishment considering a eight-year old's pocket money. However, that's not the way it went, and I learned nothing valuable from the experience.

For me, if you want to correct behaviour and grow your child into a sensible human being, you can incentivise them using your brain instead of your belt. It's quote close to this scenario put forward in "Freakonomics":

Imagine for a moment that you are the manager of a day-care center. You have a clearly stated policy that children are supposed to be picked up by 4 p.m. But very often parents are late. The result: at day's end, you have some anxious children and at least one teacher who must wait around for the parents to arrive. What to do?

A pair of economists who heard of this dilemma - it turned out to be a rather common one - offered a solution: fine the tardy parents. Why, after all, should the day-care center take care of these kids for free?

The economists decided to test their solution by conducting a study of ten day-care centers in Haifa, Israel. The study lasted twenty weeks, but the fine was not introduced immediately. For the first four weeks, the economists simply kept track of the number of parents who came late; there were, on average, eight late pickups per week per day-care center. In the fifth week, the fine was enacted. It was announced that any parent arriving more than ten minutes late would pay $3 per child for each incident. The fee would be added to the parents' monthly bill, which was roughly $380.

After the fine was enacted, the number of late pickups promptly went ... up. Before long there were twenty late pickups per week, more than double the original average. The incentive had plainly backfired.

So why did it backfire? Because it was far easier to pay the measly fine than to deal with the repeated embarrassment of being reminded that they were inattentive parents.

In my opinion, if you're smart about it, you can make the exact same idea work for corporal punishment. And again, I don't have kids yet so this is nothing but a theory, but if and when I do I'll be damned sure to at least try something like this before going full caveman on a small child.

[Wyzak]

Not at all. I only ever got a smack when I did something that deserved punishment. My point though is that my old man could've easily substituted respect and teaching for a quick klap.

Exhibit A: Growing up, we had a lemon tree in the garden. One day I decided to chuck a lemon at my neighbour's house and it smashed one of the windows. Guess what happened? I got hit as punishment.

However, that's not the way it went, and I learned nothing valuable from the experience.

I dispute the bold part above. Did you break another window after that or where you more careful? I'm sure you were more careful so it did have an effect.

In my opinion, if you're smart about it, you can make the exact same idea work for corporal punishment. And again, I don't have kids yet so this is nothing but a theory, but if and when I do I'll be damned sure to at least try something like this before going full caveman on a small child.

Of course that is the natural human thing to do, but this is not the government's place to meddle.

Kids don't yet have the mental ability to reason with an adult, and I've seen it happen countless times where parents try to reason with their children (which is the correct thing to do) but then as soon as the child sees that he won't be getting his way he throws a massive tantrum / scene. This is where the child should get a smack.

[korn1]

Anyone else have a few wooden spoons broken on them?

[Dan]

I dispute the bold part above. Did you break another window after that or where you more careful? I'm sure you were more careful so it did have an effect.

No, but I went on to do dozens more naughty things as most kids do. It's easy to write off a smack, especially as you get older, but I can't help but think that if I'd rather been taught properly or even just given rewards for good behaviour then I might've been less of a handful. Why repeatedly punish the results of bad behaviour when you can try to stop the cause?

Of course that is the natural human thing to do, but this is not the government's place to meddle.

I totally agree on this; sorry, I've steered the discussion more in the direction of the ethical and practical aspects rather than the government issue.

Being that I'm totally libertarian, I believe the government has no right to tell us how to raise our kids. Similarly, I believe I have no right to tell you how to raise yours, and vice versa.

So, in summation: To each their own, and STFU government

[Wyzak]

No, but I went on to do dozens more naughty things as most kids do. It's easy to write off a smack, especially as you get older, but I can't help but think that if I'd rather been taught properly or even just given rewards for good behaviour then I might've been less of a handful. Why repeatedly punish the results of bad behaviour when you can try to stop the cause?

And what happens if that fails? If you plead to the better nature of your kid and he learns to ignore you because there are no further consequences?