Valve announces SteamOS :D

[ave]

Joke is I see Windows a a Gamers OS and run Linux as my work desktop...

I just hope they did not use Ubuntu as base, but I have a feeling they did

They did lol- Ubuntu 12.10.

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Going to be kak funny if its locked down like ps3 after his little tantrum


How would DX work... emulation? native? or are we going to see more OpenGL?

DRM?
Day one SteamOS DLC?

Lets see where this one goes

You will still need windows to run the games that aren't ported to linux- so you stream if from windows to SteamOS and then are able to play it in your living room. But if other manufacturers jump on board, this could signal the end of the windows gaming PC.

[HavocXphere]

Not a big linux fan but then again I haven't got all that much experience with it.

Oh I think you could get used to it - that drive that causes you to build a PC rather than buy a finished one from Incredible Connection. Same thing with linux - up until now there just wasn't an incentive to make the jump - plus the issue below.

The other thing is that there was one specific thing keeping linux back - really shtty GFX drivers. ATI & nVidia made some seriously half arsed efforts in this regard. SteamOS will light a fire under their ass in that regard. Pretty sure neither company wants Gaben ranting publicly about how crap their products are.

Going to be kak funny if its locked down like ps3 after his little tantrum

You can't - GPL prevents 99% of it being locked down. Expect the actual steam client running on top of it to be locked down tight though.

How would DX work... emulation? native? or are we going to see more OpenGL?

Emulation. There is a layer that converts DX to OGL called "Wine". Its decidedly less than perfect though. To make this thing work its pretty much OGL or nothing if it is to have a future.

DRM?

Good question. No idea. Definitely possible going forward. Doubt existing DRM will fly though.

[Wesley]

Not a big linux fan but then again I haven't got all that much experience with it.

Install Virtualbox, go find Linux Mint 32-bit. I keep a VM on my PC to stay familiar with what's going on over the hedge. So far there are a lot of things that still need work, but I could port to Linux easily if I didn't need to play PC games.

How would DX work... emulation? native? or are we going to see more OpenGL?

For the launch, probably just through streaming from another PC. Valve has internal software that they used to wrap DX code and present it to the system as OpenGL for testing purposes, but since then they haven't announced anything in that regard. They may have improved that since the L4D2 Linux betas and already offer it to devs eager to jump on the bandwagon. We'll probably know more on Wednesday.

(I know WINE does a similar thing, but Valve's design was from the ground up apparently.)

Weren't OpenGL better performance wise?

It depends on the version of OpenGL and the driver support. Once properly optimised it is indeed better, but the Linux environment doesn't have the same modular design that Windows boasts, where DX isn't completely tied to the system. The other main issue with OpenGL is lack of proper documentation which Valve would have been adding in from their own efforts by now. Feature-wise, OpenGL 4.4 is comparable to DirectX 11.1.

As far as drivers go, Nvidia is the better option at the moment, although AMD is catching up with driver support for the HD5000 and HD6000 cards. There's quite a few bugs affecting HD7000 performance in a number of titles still.

You can't - GPL prevents 99% of it being locked down. Expect the actual steam client running on top of it to be locked down tight though.

I think that was the right way to go - open everything to allow for enthusiasts to customise and offer feedback and improvements while accommodating for games to be played with little hassle and stress. I'd like to see how everything is implemented, especially how they do the streaming part and get around the lack of dedicated decode hardware in most machines.

[HavocXphere]

internal software that they used to wrap DX code and present it to the system as OpenGL ... They may have improved that since the L4D2 Linux betas and already offer it to devs

Interesting. I can see that working for L4D2. Zero chance of wrapping it for use by other devs though...you want be able to generalize it sufficiently to make it portable between code bases. Thats just not happening by re-writing the game internal code.

(I know WINE does a similar thing, but Valve's design was from the ground up apparently.)

Its not the same. WINE performs the witchery on a DLL/API call level, while the L4D2 linux version seem to be more on a code base level. The one angle offers speed & low portability (internal code), the other offers broad compatibility & general nastiness.


Game logic >>> Internal GFX code >>> GFX API >>> GFX Driver


The valve version seems to add the magic between step 1 & 2, while the WINE version performs the magic between 2 & 3.


Valve's version is by far the superior solution...just requires absolutely everyone to re-write their GFX code base. Which is crap if you're pushing a new platform & trying to get people to play along. So bit of a problem for old games. Said old games could roll with WINE emulation though (2 & 3). Should be fine...bit of a nasty split solution though.

I think that was the right way to go - open everything to allow for enthusiasts to customise and offer feedback and improvements while accommodating for games to be played with little hassle and stress.

Its not about that. It'll be the same as before. Linux being open. Steam being closed. Games being closed. The battle front lies on the GFX driver side here. Traditionally we've got super crap open source driver and somewhat crap closed drivers on the linux front. Depending on how valve plays they can tip that balance either way. I'd also keep a hawk eye on the implementation of the package mangement...its another area where things can go either very well or very sideways depending on what calls valve makes.


Taking a wild guess I'd say the GFX thing will play out in our favour and the package management / app store thing we'll get owned.

DX code and present it to the system as OpenGL for testing purposes

I haven't read up on it tbh, but I'm 99% sure it won't be converting DX code. More like game logic says "draw a triangle" and then they re-direct the code flow to a OGL drawing procedure instead of a DX drawing proc. You're right though in that the original code generating the draw triangle call is likely optimized for DX. DX and OGL do have quite some differences so that will likely result in a (tiny) performance hit.

the Linux environment doesn't have the same modular design that Windows boasts, where DX isn't completely tied to the system. The other main issue with OpenGL is lack of proper documentation which Valve would have been adding in from their own efforts by now.

Everything I said so far is just minor technical details adding to what you said. This particular quoted paragraph - its just 100% wrong. I'll just let it be though - if Wes feels keen I'll shoot down the points in detail.


That being said - I'm pretty impressed with the MyGaming response. Gaming on linux is not exactly leading edge (right up until hours ago) so I'm impressed that Wes can kinda keep up. I bet the rest of the MyGaming powers that be would need a bit more time to read up on things.

[Piesank]

SteamOS, running on any living room machine

I read their site and the comments but you guys are too technical for me.

Will this run on my 360?

[oltman]

wow. my first reaction was: very nice, but if its linux based most games wont run on it but then i read about the streaming... ooooh, hang on... this could just work out great!

holding my breath, as this could be just what i need to replace my XBMC box

[Jabberwocky]

Steam throwing their weight behind linux gaming is excellent news, sick of ms forcing you to buy their new OS to get compatible their new DX.

wow. my first reaction was: very nice, but if its linux based most games wont run on it but then i read about the streaming... ooooh, hang on... this could just work out great!

holding my breath, as this could be just what i need to replace my XBMC box

That`s why i`m holding out on a new htpc, waiting to see what the steambox will bring to the table. Wanted to get a nuc, but might as well get a fully fledged console.
xbmc integration will make steamOS + steambox a winner for me.

[Clive Woofer]

I hope this causes a snowball effect that makes more games support Linux in the long run. It would be nice if Microsoft no longer indirectly controlled the gaming environment with Windows. Especially with how crap their latest OS is.

I don't see how anyone can think this is a bad thing. We've all had Stockholme Syndrome from Windows for long enough.

[AlphaJohn]

Steam throwing their weight behind linux gaming is excellent news, .....

Its not like they had a choice. Microsoft is started to play in their garden: Windows App Store. Windows 8 gave game dev's a place to sell their games without the need for other DRM solutions as its build into the OS level, think Indie games in this aspect.

Steam stand a chance to lose a lot of revenue if they do not offer something more, and in comes SteamBox + SteamOS.

[Jabberwocky]

"You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!"

Altertnatively... just give me a steam addon on openelec that does this!