Steam clamping down on CSGO Betting Sites

[DieGrootHammer]

Okay that makes sense yes. my example might have been a bit off. But Valve did not create any of these websites used for gambling. All they did was create the skins. A kind of in game currency you can say. Same as many other games. Dota, LoL, Warcraft, Over Watch and many many many others. These people (Owners of the sites) just used the competitive nature of CSGO and the people that play it imo. Not Steam or Valves fault at all

Again I am going to disagree with you. There are many games that has the same mechanics of using real world money to buy a skin or an in-game item. This is a very traditional product based business model; I give you money in exchange for a product. Now, this product has a monetary value, because I am capable of buying it, and thus, if the game allows, I am able to trade it for something of equal value. This is more of a barter economy. Now, if I create an economy like this, the onus lies with me to ensure that there are the necessary control and monitoring processes in place to ensure people don't take advantage of my economy. In the real world, money producers include a whole host of security measures to ensure that the money they produce cannot easily be manipulated within the economy it is produced for. The same onus lies with Steam. They have created this economy where skins have a huge monetary value. This is not just a simple "buy a product" business model, this is more leaning towards the model of an economy. And as the creators and managers of this economy, the onus lies with them to ensure proper control of the economy to not allow exploitation. Steam has not done this. They made it possible for external sites to access these barter items. They didn't properly control their own created economy. Other games have done the exact same system as CS:GO, yet they do not let outside influences gain access to their created system and potentially defraud it. I guarantee you that there is a proper black market for CS:GO skins, which is something Steam could have easily prevented by just preventing access to that API, yet they didn't, and thus they are guilty

[Flex]

Again I am going to disagree with you. There are many games that has the same mechanics of using real world money to buy a skin or an in-game item. This is a very traditional product based business model; I give you money in exchange for a product. Now, this product has a monetary value, because I am capable of buying it, and thus, if the game allows, I am able to trade it for something of equal value. This is more of a barter economy. Now, if I create an economy like this, the onus lies with me to ensure that there are the necessary control and monitoring processes in place to ensure people don't take advantage of my economy. In the real world, money producers include a whole host of security measures to ensure that the money they produce cannot easily be manipulated within the economy it is produced for. The same onus lies with Steam. They have created this economy where skins have a huge monetary value. This is not just a simple "buy a product" business model, this is more leaning towards the model of an economy. And as the creators and managers of this economy, the onus lies with them to ensure proper control of the economy to not allow exploitation. Steam has not done this. They made it possible for external sites to access these barter items. They didn't properly control their own created economy. Other games have done the exact same system as CS:GO, yet they do not let outside influences gain access to their created system and potentially defraud it. I guarantee you that there is a proper black market for CS:GO skins, which is something Steam could have easily prevented by just preventing access to that API, yet they didn't, and thus they are guilty

Okay I understand what you are saying. but now you are using my own example which you said was not a valid example. And at the same time cemented my argument. This has nothing to do with Skins being manipulated or reproduced.
The money gets made and sent off. To lets say a casino. The casino has to ensure that the money gets used responsibly with gamblers. Or even a better example, lets use tokens. The Casino has to make sure that their are measurements in place to ensure the tokens don't land up in 10 year old kids hands, and NOT the manufacturer of the tokens.
The steam market is very well controlled and monitored on the contrary to your statement. It is not easy to just trade, make, or steal items at all.

Manufacturer of tokens= Valve
Tokens= Skins
Casino= Gambling Sites
Kids=Kids

[DieGrootHammer]

Okay I understand what you are saying. but now you are using my own example which you said was not a valid example. And at the same time cemented my argument. This has nothing to do with Skins being manipulated or reproduced.
The money gets made and sent off. To lets say a casino. The casino has to ensure that the money gets used responsibly with gamblers. Or even a better example, lets use tokens. The Casino has to make sure that their are measurements in place to ensure the tokens don't land up in 10 year old kids hands, and NOT the manufacturer of the tokens.
The steam market is very well controlled and monitored on the contrary to your statement. It is not easy to just trade, make, or steal items at all.

Manufacturer of tokens= Valve
Tokens= Skins
Casino= Gambling Sites
Kids=Kids

Okay, again, I used the money example to my argument about economy creation. And again, we will have to agree to disagree, because I do not agree with your example at all. Valve hasn't created a product that people buy, they created a currency that has fueled an economy of huge scale within CS:GO. And that in itself is 100% fine, nothing wrong with that. But, they allowed outside websites to gain access to this economy, and I'm sorry, but the human race is a cesspool of degenerate people that would not hesitate the moment they can find a way to benefit themselves at the expense of others. Valve opened up their CS:GO economy to be exploited, and for what? What would they gain out of that? Why are these gambling sites capable of accessing Steam accounts? That access should never have happened, because Valve cannot control or monitor the usage (or exploitation) of their created economy outside of their own sphere of influence. Because they are giving access to other sites to this system, THAT is why I'm saying Valve is INDIRECTLY liable.

[Flex]

Okay, again, I used the money example to my argument about economy creation. And again, we will have to agree to disagree, because I do not agree with your example at all. Valve hasn't created a product that people buy, they created a currency that has fueled an economy of huge scale within CS:GO. And that in itself is 100% fine, nothing wrong with that. But, they allowed outside websites to gain access to this economy, and I'm sorry, but the human race is a cesspool of degenerate people that would not hesitate the moment they can find a way to benefit themselves at the expense of others. Valve opened up their CS:GO economy to be exploited, and for what? What would they gain out of that? Why are these gambling sites capable of accessing Steam accounts? That access should never have happened, because Valve cannot control or monitor the usage (or exploitation) of their created economy outside of their own sphere of influence. Because they are giving access to other sites to this system, THAT is why I'm saying Valve is INDIRECTLY liable.

These sites do not access the accounts by themselves. They have to accessed, given permission through numerous safe guards by the user of the account before it has access. There are 1000000's of sites where you can check stats of your Steam account, NOT used for trading or anything like that. So it is not possible for steam never mind valve, to track and trace these 10 or so sites that exploit the skins.
Valve did indeed create the product. There was no other external factor involved. An economy is created by the people using the product. Demand and supply principle basically.

It comes down the the Websites should have an extra Safe Guard to allow only people older than 18 to use this site.
But that is the Problem with the Internet, that is not possible as there are so many loop holes.
So why not just file a lawsuit against the Internet if you can't keep track of what your kid is gambling away on your credit card =D

[DieGrootHammer]

These sites do not access the accounts by themselves. They have to accessed, given permission through numerous safe guards by the user of the account before it has access. There are 1000000's of sites where you can check stats of your Steam account, NOT used for trading or anything like that. So it is not possible for steam never mind valve, to track and trace these 10 or so sites that exploit the skins.
Valve did indeed create the product. There was no other external factor involved. An economy is created by the people using the product. Demand and supply principle basically.

It comes down the the Websites should have an extra Safe Guard to allow only people older than 18 to use this site.
But that is the Problem with the Internet, that is not possible as there are so many loop holes.
So why not just file a lawsuit against the Internet if you can't keep track of what your kid is gambling away on your credit card =D

Hmmmm, you got me by the short and curlies there my friend...I must admit, you do make a very valid point.

But I cannot help but stick to my convictions that think that Valve could have done something to ensure there ultimately highly valuable currency called CS:GO skins cannot go out into the wild, where people will inevitably take advantage of the available information for personal gain. Sure, let the stats behind Steam accounts be accessible, but why should the statistics of highly valuable items be available to such an extent that they are exploited.

Ultimately, Steam and CS:GO's size and market share dominance is what is against it. It simply cannot do the same as other platforms or other services. It has to be much more responsible with the data and the access to that data it has. Maybe that is too much to ask from Steam, considering the size of what I am suggesting, but surely some big-picture thinking had to go into the creation of these skins and the share of information thereof, and someone had to realize that if they make it possible for that info to get out into the open, even through user acceptance, it will open up users to exploitation. Again, hence why I still feel why Valve is indirectly to blame.

[Flex]

Hmmmm, you got me by the short and curlies there my friend...I must admit, you do make a very valid point.

But I cannot help but stick to my convictions that think that Valve could have done something to ensure there ultimately highly valuable currency called CS:GO skins cannot go out into the wild, where people will inevitably take advantage of the available information for personal gain. Sure, let the stats behind Steam accounts be accessible, but why should the statistics of highly valuable items be available to such an extent that they are exploited.

Ultimately, Steam and CS:GO's size and market share dominance is what is against it. It simply cannot do the same as other platforms or other services. It has to be much more responsible with the data and the access to that data it has. Maybe that is too much to ask from Steam, considering the size of what I am suggesting, but surely some big-picture thinking had to go into the creation of these skins and the share of information thereof, and someone had to realize that if they make it possible for that info to get out into the open, even through user acceptance, it will open up users to exploitation. Again, hence why I still feel why Valve is indirectly to blame.

The only thing that I can think of that Steam can do is to make ALL items Binding. In other words that once you get an item, you are not able to sell, buy or trade it for anything. Whether it may be real money, virtual items or any other kind of currency. That is the only thing I can see that Steam can do. They already have all the other measures in place to make this as difficult as possible with all the Steam Guards and layers upon layers of authentication processes. But I do agree with the fact that Steam should indeed take some sort of responsibility

[DieGrootHammer]

The only thing that I can think of that Steam can do is to make ALL items Binding. In other words that once you get an item, you are not able to sell, buy or trade it for anything. Whether it may be real money, virtual items or any other kind of currency. That is the only thing I can see that Steam can do. They already have all the other measures in place to make this as difficult as possible with all the Steam Guards and layers upon layers of authentication processes. But I do agree with the fact that Steam should indeed take some sort of responsibility

Does that mean I win?!?!?!?!

Lol only joking, there are no winners in debates like these.

Or, what Valve can do is just cherry pick what info is synced once you give access to a site to access your account. It doesn't need to get access to details about micro-transaction, or any other transactions on profiles. But all of these are suggestions, and if we had the answer as to what Steam can do, I'm sure we would be super rich.