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Thread: Do you care about who you're shooting in games?

  1. #71
    Azimuth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necuno View Post
    i get that, but then killing hookers in gta or killing babies in gta would that not be the same as gta could be more of a contingency in reality ?
    Perhaps. Personally, I simply didn't find GTA convincing enough. Some games are more immersive or credible or realistic than others, I guess. And what games those might be are going to differ from person to person.

    do you then say that my choices in gaming defines my morality ? do we not play games to explore our darker selves as well ?
    No, no, no. I'm absolutely not disputing that there's a significant gap between reality and games - that would be absurd. And your in-game morality shouldn't have any real bearing whatsoever on your own personal morality, nor necessarily vice versa. I mean, it might, and it might not; there's no "should". As you've already said, there's always going to be an element of exploration, of provocation. What I'm saying, however, is that we should perhaps be a little more aware, and a little more critical of what's being presented in some games. In the case of topical war games like Call of Duty and Medal of Honor, we should consider the possibility of political rhetoric and/or agendas, and question these.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    I'm sorry did I miss the Che Tshirt dispensary here some place.....

    Let me guess you're all fans of Loose change, Zeitgeist and online conspiracy theories.....
    Um. No. Asking questions and subscribing to utter fucking stupidity and outright lies are, I daresay, two entirely different things. Nice try at discrediting everyone who disagrees with you, though. I guess when you've run out of reasonable arguments, you've no choice but to go with feeble accusations.

    And Che Guevara t-shirts are lame.

  3. #73

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    If I want reasonable debates on current policies, ideologies etc I'll stick with Realclearpolitics.com.

    A gaming site is obviously not the place. Pity that negative stereotypes of gamers are reinforced. I'll console myself with my current read, a book based on personal recollections of W.Averell Harriman. Very interesting indeed.

    But hey I'm a brainwashed individual who can't think for himself.....

    I'll just that add that yeah I may come across condescending but then the political history of the 20th century is my hobby( for now) with untold hours of research put into it. i know I shouldn't try to debate these issues on online forums as I've been warned countless times by my peers, well they're far ahead of me actually, but I can't help myself. Things degrade from there.

    For example the line in the article "and the slightly inconvenient reality that America is, to date, the only country to have actually dropped a nuke on anyone.". That gets my back up badly. How is that relevant? It comes across as a flippant "OMG people died in Mushroom cloud, it must have been wrong lets bash the U.S with it for the rest of eternity". Has the author done any research into the conditions leading to the bombing. Books, papers, anything. Somehow I don't think so. Nevermind the fact it happened 65 years ago.

    I though have. Extensively on that subject and others including communism, Nazism, Taliban..... Then I get told I'm the brainwashed idiot by people who perhaps didn't even do history in school.

    Anyway rant over. I'll leave you to it. Anybody who shares an interest in this PM me if you want to discus books, websites etc......
    Last edited by Alan; 11-08-2010 at 07:52 AM.

  4. #74
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    Wow. I'll be honest, I usually hate your articles, but this was very, very good. You make some great points.

    My opinion on this, is everyone seems to love a comedian until they rip on someone they like. For example, I loved Bruno but he ripped on Ron Paul (who I kinda liked) and I was upset. Then I realized I had absolutely no problem when he ripped on Jews, gays, Christians, god, Germans and almost every culture, religion and practice. Similar thing with South Park, they made fun of something I didn't entirely dig and I was upset. Fact is, you can't be upset when the table is turned.

    The "America, fuck yeah!" chants draw awful silent when their soldiers get killed, but god forbid it's the other way round. Does that give them any right to complain about a game? If I lived in Iraq I don't think I'd be able to find it in me to respect America, and I can't blame them for wanting to fight. I can blame America for it though. I can blame America for still BEING in the fight.

    But do I care? Not one bit. As far as I'm concerned America fronts the most retarded government in the world, even worse than ours. At least we're up front with our incompetence and inability to do anything worthwhile, but America, instead of doing nothing, makes things worse.

    But hey. That's just me.
    Couscous; the food so nice they named it twice

  5. #75
    Azimuth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    If I want reasonable debates on current policies, ideologies etc I'll stick with Realclearpolitics.com.
    A gaming site is obviously not the place. Pity that negative stereotypes of gamers are reinforced. I'll console myself with my current read, a book based on personal recollections of W.Averell Harriman. Very interesting indeed.
    But hey I'm a brainwashed individual who can't think for himself.....
    Martyr much?

    I'll just that add that yeah I may come across condescending but then the political history of the 20th century is my hobby( for now) with untold hours of research put into it. i know I shouldn't try to debate these issues on online forums as I've been warned countless times by my peers, well they're far ahead of me actually, but I can't help myself. Things degrade from there.
    For someone with “hours of research” put into the topic, you do come off as exceedingly naive. You’ve consistently dismissed communism as “evil” on account of its implementation by obviously corrupt despots – functionally oligarchies, really - without demonstrating any understanding whatsoever of communism as a sociopolitical theory. Circumspection – you need some. I wonder how you’d describe the situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Being, you know, a democratic republic and everything. Are there different rules when democracies turn out to be rotten?

    For example the line in the article "and the slightly inconvenient reality that America is, to date, the only country to have actually dropped a nuke on anyone.". That gets my back up badly. How is that relevant? It comes across as a flippant "OMG people died in Mushroom cloud, it must have been wrong lets bash the U.S with it for the rest of eternity". Has the author done any research into the conditions leading to the bombing. Books, papers, anything. Somehow I don't think so. Nevermind the fact it happened 60 years ago.
    It’s relevant because in the game, it’s featured as a moment of desperate wickedness and unmitigated horror. Which, frankly, dropping a nuke is, was, and always will be, despite all political context and motivating factors – no matter how legitimate these might be. Over 200 000 people died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, many of them civilians. There’s not very much moral ambiguity here – many thousands of innocent people died. How is Oppenheimer’s Target Committee absolved of all responsibility for this? This is definitely something worth thinking about.

    The fact that, 60 years on, it’s still a matter of serious academic debate means it’s not a simple case of right or wrong whatsoever. And it remains a matter of serious academic debate because a committee of men made the decision to drop the bombs, and the rest can only ever be speculation. Could the war have ended any other way? We’ll never know.

    Anyway, my point in the article was that we’re presented with a crucial plot device, and an act of wickedness and horror that, ironically, only America (and the other Allied powers, by proxy) can currently claim as their own in reality. Can you really deny, with any integrity, that it’s not worth critical consideration? The threat of nuclear war is an immensely emotive force in fostering support for war, and a formidable propaganda tool.

    I though have. Extensively on that subject and others including communism, Nazism, Taliban..... Then I get told I'm the brainwashed idiot by people who perhaps didn't even do history in school.
    I didn’t call you a “brainwashed idiot”; I said you’re not thinking. See my earlier point about communism.

    PS I’m a bit of a history nerd too. ;P

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock View Post
    Wow. I'll be honest, I usually hate your articles, but this was very, very good. You make some great points.
    Ha, thanks.

  6. #76
    The thing that should not be Tsar's Avatar
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    But the stuff you learn at school is all propaganda.

  7. #77
    The Piper Necuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azimuth View Post
    No, no, no. I'm absolutely not disputing that there's a significant gap between reality and games - that would be absurd. And your in-game morality shouldn't have any real bearing whatsoever on your own personal morality, nor necessarily vice versa. I mean, it might, and it might not; there's no "should". As you've already said, there's always going to be an element of exploration, of provocation. What I'm saying, however, is that we should perhaps be a little more aware, and a little more critical of what's being presented in some games. In the case of topical war games like Call of Duty and Medal of Honor, we should consider the possibility of political rhetoric and/or agendas, and question these.
    i see, cool. only thing that really did bother me in the beginning so far was killing the dogs in quake 1, and maybe a few titles with some under tones here and there, but it is as you say we should be aware over being not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wlad View Post
    Fair enough, but I do not want to, nor will I ever, simulate killing a realistic looking child or baby in a realistic context. It's still a game and a fictional character that doesn't really exist, but it will bother me way too much.
    this is way i mentioned the jedi knight thing where you have to kill off everything and everybody, however it fits context perfectly with dire results for you as the character in the end. this does come back a little to that argument of games are murder simulations...
    Last edited by Necuno; 11-08-2010 at 08:19 AM.
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  8. #78
    AK47 Pew Pew Maplassie's Avatar
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    I killed a baby facehugger once with a Predator Plasmacaster!

  9. #79
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    I'm still wondering why playing as Taliban in MoH is suddenly different...

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