Female Portrayal in Games

[Space_Chief]

Cool, so I can schedule you some fighting matches with these women?

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There are plenty of female fighters who are damn good at what they do and CAN beat males. On average women do not possess the same physical strength as men, but to claim that this is absolutely always the case is a load BS. Essentially, you right now:

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These are not lethal warriors. Duh!

The best female fighters will be beaten by second best male fighters.

So no.

History is proof. There may be a few women who can get away against medium of the range male fighters but no.

Just look at modern athletics and boxing. Who sets the records in these? Men or women?

So where its survival of the fittest with no quarter given, your women would end up being wiped out. And any sensible ruler would rather use his women to raise a generation of boys for his army.

But your SJW sensibilities and lack of statistical knowledge are noted.

So re-read what you written and note the following:

You made the point that some women sports fighters exist and they could beat untrained men. But they won't beat their top of the line male counterparts. In a situation where you have armies of warriors, a wise ruler would use his men as warriors and his women as care givers/mothers to raise more male warriors, to maximise results.

And also consider the sizes and weights of medieval armour and weapons as depicted in these games. Most if not all of these women would not be able to lug around armour, shields, helmets and swords the size of what's shown in games.

But we all like games like DOA5. I always play as a girl. But it's a fantasy. It's not real. Duh.

 

[Space_Chief]

Cool, so I can schedule you some fighting matches with these women?

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There are plenty of female fighters who are damn good at what they do and CAN beat males. On average women do not possess the same physical strength as men, but to claim that this is absolutely always the case is a load BS. Essentially, you right now:

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As for scheduling a fighting match, if I put in the same amount of time and years as these women did in training, I would be able to beat them.

But duh, that's a stupid comparison, Graal.

 

[Graal]

I love how you change the goalposts from "the strongest women will always lose out to lesser male fighters" to "they will always lose out to the best male fighters." Making blanket statements is spewing bullshit. Saying that the toughest women fighters will always lose out to the weakest male fighters is BS.

I also love how you immediately label me an SJW for calling you out on making sweeping generalisations. That is such a typical loony MRA male-supremacist tactic. You, boy, are just as bad as any of these SJW you claim to hate. You're simply the opposite side of the same coin. Essentially, this is still you right now:

 

[Glordit]

These are not lethal warriors. Duh!

The best female fighters will be beaten by second best male fighters.

So no.

History is proof. There may be a few women who can get away against medium of the range male fighters but no.

Just look at modern athletics and boxing. Who sets the records in these? Men or women?

So where its survival of the fittest with no quarter given, your women would end up being wiped out. And any sensible ruler would rather use his women to raise a generation of boys for his army.

But your SJW sensibilities and lack of statistical knowledge are noted.

So re-read what you written and note the following:

You made the point that some women sports fighters exist and they could beat untrained men. But they won't beat their top of the line male counterparts. In a situation where you have armies of warriors, a wise ruler would use his men as warriors and his women as care givers/mothers to raise more male warriors, to maximise results.

And also consider the sizes and weights of medieval armour and weapons as depicted in these games. Most if not all of these women would not be able to lug around armour, shields, helmets and swords the size of what's shown in games.

But we all like games like DOA5. I always play as a girl. But it's a fantasy. It's not real. Duh.

Unless they can provide actual hard evidence, to back your said claims, conjecture is nothing more than opinion.

 

[Space_Chief]

I love how you change the goalposts from "the strongest women will always lose out to lesser male fighters" to "they will always lose out to the best male fighters." Making blanket statements is spewing bullshit. Saying that the toughest women fighters will always lose out to the weakest male fighters is BS.

It's not changing the goalposts. It's adapting to your BS. You brought up champion female fighters as an example of average woman warrior bettering against average male warriors. That's a major goal post shift I went with, hence blame yourself Sherlock for "goal post" shifting. But on the battle field and in sports fights and athletics your best female warrior/athelete cannot stand a chance against men and I would say men with even less training although not no training at all, but all being equal statistically men will beat women until well through attrition there are no more women. Sooner or later all your female warriors will be slaughtered in a real life situation of medieval war. We could drawn an evolutionary example of this, they'll be selected out eventually no female warriors will exist, in unrestrained, all out warfare, as presented by most games.

Men tend to have more stamina, are faster and are stronger. Men also have a mind set which makes them more aggressive and they have a natural interest in weapons and fighting as opposed to women. In large number games your weak animals get selected out, same here. That's all I said in the beginning and you jumped in making yourself look silly bringing in champ female warriors. Haha.

I also love how you immediately label me an SJW for calling you out on making sweeping generalisations. That is such a typical loony MRA male-supremacist tactic. You, boy, are just as bad as any of these SJW you claim to hate. You're simply the opposite side of the same coin. Essentially, this is still you right now:

I'm not MRA. I'm just someone who knows a bit about statistics and human anatomy and physiology. If women could match men then we would have cross gender sports teams, matches and so on. We don't have that. Men better women physically by a long shot. You've added training to that, whoopla well no sh-t Sherlock male fighters/warriors would also train.

You're very confused and you project. And I laugh how you try to label me into this who English world BS "MRA" stuff. Haha. That's really silly.

 

[Space_Chief]

Unless they can provide actual hard evidence, to back your said claims, conjecture is nothing more than opinion.

No. You provide evidence where women can compete fairly in contact sports and atheletics and show me historically which female warriors in history have bettered men. Know any female gladiators in ancient Rome who went on to be champions?

Yes there may be a few individual cases glorified in legend and wishful thinking, but show me where an army ever succeed by employing female mercenaries or warriors instead of male ones. And I want to see this not as several flukes but consistent patterns of victories.

The burden on proof is on you to show that women who according to SCIENCE have less strength and speed can last out in general against men and to show how portrayal of female warriors in games is realistic.

 

[Crzwaco]

No. You provide evidence where women can compete fairly in contact sports and atheletics and show me historically which female warriors in history have bettered men. Know any female gladiators in ancient Rome who went on to be champions?

Yes there may be a few individual cases glorified in legend and wishful thinking, but show me where an army ever succeed by employing female mercenaries or warriors instead of male ones. And I want to see this not as several flukes but consistent patterns of victories.

The burden on proof is on you to show that women who according to SCIENCE have less strength and speed can last out in general against men and to show how portrayal of female warriors in games is realistic.

Perhaps this is why you won't find it.

their stint in the arena may have come to an end around 200 A.D when the Emperor Septimius Severus banned their participation in the games.

 

[Space_Chief]

Perhaps this is why you won't find it.

There were a few but were used as a gimmick.

There was not much to find on female gladiators, however they did exist. I found that there were a few female gladiators, and it is believed that they were brought into the arena by eccentric Emperors such as Domitian. Domitian once staged a nocturnal performance in which female gladiators fought either women or dwarves by torchlight; which much have been included as comic relief from the life or death games.

http://www.123helpme.com/prize-fighter-of-ancient-rome-view.asp?id=157968

Gladiatrix's (female gladiators)
These were considered the comic relief, never put up against a Gladiator unless a swift death was to be guaranteed. Women were put into the arena opposing other women or dwarves, and were never kept in the same ludi as Gladiators. They were kept in a special ludus called a circus as memory serves (may need to update that fact).

http://godsofvalor.com/community/index.php?topic=7.0

Female gladiators were very rare and tended not to fight men in general but fought animals or other women. There were very few examples of them.

When they did fight, they would have fought in two primary capacities. There are a number of sources which indicate that they would have fought as venatores, or hunters of beasts. Martial compares their fights against beasts in Titus’s games to Hercules fighting the Nemean Lion.[29] Also, they would have fought against other women. Gladiators were usually pitted against fighters of similar skill and capacity. There is some evidence that they fought against dwarves. However, Brunet, referencing a number of ancient historians, indicates this was unlikely. Gladiatrices were looked upon with more serious admiration, and would not have been pitted against dwarfs for comic relief.[30] At times they would fight in group fights with men, however during these fights they would often be in chariots in order to counteract the physical disparities.[31] For a more complete description of what a gladiatorial game would look like, see the Gladiator page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiatrix

Now compare that to the BS portrayal of women in games where a woman character can beat and ultimately beats the best males around. It's fantasy.

 

[Space_Chief]

Now imagine a group of male and female gladiators, all equipped with similar armour and weapons and all given the same training, and make it survival of the fittest. Men would win that, without special handicaps afforded to the women. That's not a sexist thing to say, it's realistic.

Your weaker individuals will lose out at the end. Unless they retire or are given special protection that's the outcome.

Kg for kg of body mass women are weaker. Their bodies contain more adipose tissue than muscle. And men in general tend to be heavier built anyway.

 

[Glordit]

The burden on proof is on you to show that women who according to SCIENCE have less strength and speed can last out in general against men and to show how portrayal of female warriors in games is realistic.

I am sorry but, at what stage did I make any claims or add my opinion to the current topic? I do not see why when questioning you on your opinion that I need to provide proof. It makes no sense, perhaps you misunderstood my post.

 

[Graal]

No. You provide evidence where women can compete fairly in contact sports and atheletics and show me historically which female warriors in history have bettered men. Know any female gladiators in ancient Rome who went on to be champions?

Yes there may be a few individual cases glorified in legend and wishful thinking, but show me where an army ever succeed by employing female mercenaries or warriors instead of male ones. And I want to see this not as several flukes but consistent patterns of victories.

The burden on proof is on you to show that women who according to SCIENCE have less strength and speed can last out in general against men and to show how portrayal of female warriors in games is realistic.

You're still shifting the goalposts. You might notice I said women are on average not as strong as men. What I took issue with is your blanket statements saying strong women will always lose to even weaker men. I never claimed an entire army of women would outlast men. That was you putting words in my mouth.

This whole male supremacy thing you've got going gets pretty tiresome at times. Live and let live. Nobody gives a crap that you like to write essays about why women are not men's equals. Ain't nobody got time for that shit.

 

[Space_Chief]

You're still shifting the goalposts. You might notice I said women are on average not as strong as men. What I took issue with is your blanket statements saying strong women will always lose to even weaker men. I never claimed an entire army of women would outlast men. That was you putting words in my mouth.

No. I said "You don't really get female lethal warriors at all. In cross sex fighting in real life, the women warriors would be wiped out by lesser male warriors." Which is true. I did not say it would be in every fight, though. But summing it up, they would not make it and would lose out through attrition. I already explained this point in further posts even drawing on evolution and natural selection. I never said a woman will lose in every single fight she will engage in though. So you are wrong, you misunderstood and you shifted the goal posts. What I said was not what you suggested it was above. You jumped in with your knee jerk feminism.

Your female warriors would ultimately be destroyed by men, unless they were protected by men, but that's not what's shown in video games. In games they take on men even larger then them and win, depending on the player, but that's the goal of the game. It's not merely to survive, fight lesser opponents, run away and use stronger men to fight for you in combat involving most men.

This whole male supremacy thing you've got going gets pretty tiresome at times. Live and let live. Nobody gives a crap that you like to write essays about why women are not men's equals. Ain't nobody got time for that shit.

Unfortunately in medicine we have this thing called serum creatinine level. It correlates loosely with muscle mass. Like it or not but the reference ranges are different for men and women, irrespective of their body weight. We call that being realistic and in tune with nature. It's not a supremacy thing.

Now the women in most games are not historically realistic. They are there as fan service for male players. They're probably sexist but hey as long as as a few exceptions exist in controlled settings among women who fight other women your bubble is not burst.

I think I'm the real feminist here, after all.

 

[Graal]

If you didn't mean in every single fight, maybe you should have pointed that out? Your tone certainly did not give off that vibe. It gave off the vibe that you're yet another MRA out to beat your chest, which is completely in line with your previous posting behavior both on MyBB and MyGaming. You might label yourself a feminist and scoff at being called an MRA, but your posts are pretty much verbatim the kind of stuff you'll read on the MRA subreddits. Right down to the way you always label people SJWs the moment anyone disagrees with you.

The fact that you're posting 6 month old news articles on MyBB to fuel anti-SJW outrage is not exactly helping the image of you being an MRA. I honestly don't have the time or the will to argue with people obsessed with gender politicking, be they SJWs, MRAs or self-proclaimed "feminists".

Like this:

Unfortunately in medicine we have this thing called serum creatinine level. It correlates loosely with muscle mass. Like it or not but the reference ranges are different for men and women, irrespective of their body weight. We call that being realistic and in tune with nature. It's not a supremacy thing.

You completely missed my point and then completely misconstrued my position because hell, when you're not arguing about gender BS then where's the fun in life? Ugh.

Hint: I wasn't calling women men's physical equals. If you actually read what other people write, you might notice that I said on average women are not men's physical equals. Twice. But thanks for ruining what was otherwise a pleasant discussion thread.

 

[Lothy]

4 pages, to lazy lol.

Female portrayal in games...

As much skin exposed as legally possible, with DDs.

But I have noticed in some recent titles that this isn't the case. But according to history and Lara Craft, my comments stand.

 

[czc]

I'm getting lost with the acronyms. MRA? SJW?

 

[DarthMol]

I'm getting lost with the acronyms. MRA? SJW?

I know one of those, SJW = Social Justice Warrior

 

[Space_Chief]

If you didn't mean in every single fight, maybe you should have pointed that out?

It was obvious. It was further expounded on in subsequent posts. But yeah just by reading that you get the idea that overall, that's the case. Obviously your typical 20 year old woman could take out a typical 95 year old man, at least and so on.

The fact that you're posting 6 month old news articles on MyBB to fuel anti-SJW outrage is not exactly helping the image of you being an MRA. I honestly don't have the time or the will to argue with people obsessed with gender politicking, be they SJWs, MRAs or self-proclaimed "feminists".

It was not posted in the NEWS section but OFF TOPIC. Maybe you're reading too quickly.

I'm not pro-MRA, I'm just anti-Marxism. There's a huge difference. Most MRAs are left just not in this one aspect.

You completely missed my point and then completely misconstrued my position because hell, when you're not arguing about gender BS then where's the fun in life? Ugh.

Nope. It's to say that men and women are not equal at least in the medical sciences. We use different reference range intervals for both for example serum creatinine, but also things like hemoglobin.

Hint: I wasn't calling women men's physical equals. If you actually read what other people write, you might notice that I said on average women are not men's physical equals. Twice. But thanks for ruining what was otherwise a pleasant discussion thread.

And that's key. That's a fact which means that given two individuals of the same mass, and age, and ethnicity and same training level, and absence of disease in both, the male will be stronger in virtually all cases, because he will have more muscle mass.

Game portrayals of these fighter women are a joke, a fantasy. It's therefore not a problem for them to be shown super sexy too. If we may as well have suspension of belief and fantasy, we may as well have eye candy in our fantasy.

 

[Space_Chief]

I'm getting lost with the acronyms. MRA? SJW?

Men's Rights Activist.

It's what you'll become if you marry a feminist who then divorces you and takes your children away (legally).

 

[mottamort]

I love this textbook definition of a strawman argument taking place here (Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack). Lets not forget the most important aspect here, which everyone seems to have forgotten. NONE OF THIS IS TAKING PLACE IN THE REAL WORLD. IT IS FANTASY. YOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT SCIENCE/MEN vs WOMEN/ MRA vs SJW, TITS vs PECS IS IRRELEVANT!

THE PEOPLE WHO CREATED WHAT THEY DID USING THE MEANS AVAILABLE CAN DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE WITH THEIR ART. Yes I fucking said art...that is what these games are. It may not be GOOD art, but theres alot of THAT floating around the movie/book universe.

So regardless of anyones thoughts on this (and yes, I've given mine ), ultimately it has no bearing, since the original article is of no consequense. It's like making an article which swaps the gender of all the main protagonists (and apart from the grunting and cover art we're shown, Gordon Freeman could pretty much be a woman throughout HL series). nice little water-cooler chat, but no actual bearing on what has become a massive male vs female argument.


Sure alot of us are pointing out thats not what they'd look like in the real world....and its not. But we'd have just as little say in arguing if that WAS what they looked like and articles were posted exactly in reverse.





Lets all get along?

 

[BeoTeK]

Men's Rights Activist.

It's what you'll become if you marry a feminist who then divorces you and takes your children away (legally).

I had a wife, she divorced me and I got my child. Does that make me a "MRA"?
#SpareMe