PC trubbles

[Azimuth]

I've posted this over on the NAG forum also, but perhaps someone here can help me out.

Sometimes (and increasingly often) my PC doesn't shut down properly. It just hangs on the "Windows is shutting down" screen, and I have to switch it off manually at the PSU. It's also occasionally (and, again, increasingly often) having issues during boot - it's not powering my USB devices properly. My keyboard (Logitech G15) doesn't come on at all, and my Wacom light flashes briefly, but by the time Windows has loaded, it's not actually working.

A single reboot usually solves the problem, but sometimes multiple reboots are required. Although I've not tried this enough times to say with certainty, unplugging the USB devices before booting, and then plugging them back in once Windows has loaded appears to work too, suggesting an initial power consumption issue.

It's the PSU, isn't it?

 

[sycogrim]

Ok firstly what is the size of your PSU?? and in Watts secondly have you reset your mobo as in pulled all the cables out and pulled the cmos battery out and left it for 5min?

 

[Lupus]

Try another PSU, sounds like your mobo isn't getting enough power. You will be surprised at what power fluctuations cause on PCs.

 

[Slipperyduck]

Maybe enough power, but not quality power.
I had a mate who had similar problems and after testing found his PSU was pushing our 10V on the 12V line and 4V on the 5V line. <--- uber shudder at the damage that can cause...

 

[Azimuth]

Ok firstly what is the size of your PSU?? and in Watts secondly have you reset your mobo as in pulled all the cables out and pulled the cmos battery out and left it for 5min?

No, that's more effort than I'm prepared to put in at the moment. It's a 420W PSU, and I'm increasingly convinced it's the culprit here. I'm sure I didn't have this problem before installing a 9800. I guess I really should have a 550W PSU or more. >_>

Try another PSU, sounds like your mobo isn't getting enough power. You will be surprised at what power fluctuations cause on PCs.

I wouldn't be surprised, that's why it's my prime suspect. I've previously had a very similar problem with another PC, where powering up the PC and monitor on the same PSU simultaneously caused issues. Just wanted some second opinions. Looks like I'm buying a new PSU.

 

[sycogrim]

No, that's more effort than I'm prepared to put in at the moment. It's a 420W PSU, and I'm increasingly convinced it's the culprit here. I'm sure I didn't have this problem before installing a 9800. I guess I really should have a 550W PSU or more. >_>



I wouldn't be surprised, that's why it's my prime suspect. I've previously had a very similar problem with another PC, where powering up the PC and monitor on the same PSU simultaneously caused issues. Just wanted some second opinions. Looks like I'm buying a new PSU.

Yeh a 550W would do the trick most definitely I also wasnt able to push out enough power when it came to gaming when I had my 450W and that was also when I knew nothing about PC's and worked out to get mah hands on 550W and higher in order to push out what i needed

 

[Sanji]

Press F8 during boot up, Choose Last known good settings ?

 

[mcryan]

Press F8 during boot up, Choose Last known good settings ?

... Doesn't sound like an OS thing, so that isn't likely to do anything.

Try a different PSU - and if that doesn't help, play around with using different RAM chips to narrow down the problem.

 

[jasong]

Is it a generic psu? i'm not convinced that the psu is the issue tbh. But let's see what happens.

 

[Azimuth]

Try a different PSU - and if that doesn't help, play around with using different RAM chips to narrow down the problem.

Nah, I doubt that the RAM is at fault here.

Is it a generic psu? i'm not convinced that the psu is the issue tbh. But let's see what happens.

It's a Thermaltake PSU. So not a generic, but nothing super fancy either.

 

[jasong]

Thermaltake 420w should really be sufficient for a 9800 with regular components. My bil runs 380w gigabyte with a 9800 pc.

 

[sycogrim]

Thermaltake 420w should really be sufficient for a 9800 with regular components. My bil runs 380w gigabyte with a 9800 pc.

yeh but shes is obviously trying to run and almost max capacity thats why and its overloading... so I would reckon its the PSU and the PC needs more juice

 

[Voicy]

Azimuth, it sounds like you have PSU trubbles. However, I couldn't help but giggle when I read this part:

Sometimes (and increasingly often) my PC doesn't shut down properly. It just hangs on the "Windows is shutting down" screen, and I have to switch it off manually at the PSU.

And immediately thought about this one: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/239887

Upgrade from Win98 SE already!

 

[prof818]

My rig runs a core 2 quad with 9800 gt with 2 harddrives fine on 450W. Are you perhaps sure that you aren't overloading one of the voltage rails on the psu, i.e you have graphics card + harddrives all plugged onto 1 set of plugs, with nothing on the other set of plugs?

 

[Azimuth]

And immediately thought about this one: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/239887

Upgrade from Win98 SE already!

Omglol. I DONE BEEN RUMBLED.

My rig runs a core 2 quad with 9800 gt with 2 harddrives fine on 450W. Are you perhaps sure that you aren't overloading one of the voltage rails on the psu, i.e you have graphics card + harddrives all plugged onto 1 set of plugs, with nothing on the other set of plugs?

Now, I initially started typing "nah", then decided to check. And lo, I am running everything off one cable, with another one just dangling, sad and forgotten in the back. I'm going to fix that right away.

 

[Voicy]

Omglol. I DONE BEEN RUMBLED.

Now, I initially started typing "nah", then decided to check. And lo, I am running everything off one cable, with another one just dangling, sad and forgotten in the back. I'm going to fix that right away.

Good idea. However, strictly speaking, it's all in parallel - so you shouldn't have any voltage drop to begin with, the "further" you move down the line.

 

[Blaze786]

I will help you.

Its trouble not trubble.

 

[prof818]

Good idea. However, strictly speaking, it's all in parallel - so you shouldn't have any voltage drop to begin with, the "further" you move down the line.

No, thats not what i mean.

Most power supplies are constructed with multiple 5V and 12V rails. Each of these rails is only capable of giving out a certain amount of power.
So for instance, the PSU might be capable of 420W, but you can only pull 100 from each 12V rail, with the remainder being split among the 5V rails.
So, if the graphics card + hard drives and half the motherboard are being run on one rail, with only the motherboard on the other, the voltage would dip on the over loaded rail.

 

[Voicy]

I get what you're saying.

I read rails as leads (essentially feeding off the same busbar system) which is not the case.

 

[Azimuth]

I will help you.

Its trouble not trubble.

Mai nite in shinning armur.

PS "It's".

No, thats not what i mean.

Most power supplies are constructed with multiple 5V and 12V rails. Each of these rails is only capable of giving out a certain amount of power.
So for instance, the PSU might be capable of 420W, but you can only pull 100 from each 12V rail, with the remainder being split among the 5V rails.
So, if the graphics card + hard drives and half the motherboard are being run on one rail, with only the motherboard on the other, the voltage would dip on the over loaded rail.

It's too early to say for certain, but you might have been absolutely right on this one. After a complete cable reassignment, six or seven cable ties, and a thorough dusting, my PC booted without being stroppy. Thanks very much for the advice.