Morality....

[OmegaFenix]

This is in response to a discussion started in the thread about some clanning getting banned for Hacking.

I am of the opinion that all people are inherintly evil and when given the chance will act on their nature.

Most seem to disagree with me.

 

[Necuno]

 

[OmegaFenix]

LOL. We started getting off topic talking about morality so i created a thread where we could discuss it with derailing someone elses thread.

 

[Kiruna]

I wouldn't say evil, maybe a animilistic nature with core basic survival skills.
Basic life skills get taught to you and you learn / adapt based on your parents roles. You learn morales from them.
You go through life with these morales. Your experiences with others and in life then determine the type of person you become, good or bad.
From my own experience I am very much hardwired with a good set of morales and find it difficult to be a bitch / vindictive, nor would I be able to cheat where it directly affects others. (I'm not saying I haven't cheated before in say a test, but I would make dam sure I would be the only one to suffer with consequences if caught)

I don't think that people are inherently evil, it is the life path they take that shapes them that way.
In the case of the hacking - I wouldn't peg that as being evil, more insecure in own abilities and a need to do well no matter the costs and without thinking of other people and how they would percieve it. But who knows. Could be a million reasons as to why. I would love to hear it from horses mouth.

 

[OmegaFenix]

Nice Post Kiruna.

See to me good and evil are two words to clearly define something that can't be clearly defined. No body thinks themself evil, nobody goes "I rape and Murder thats about all i do." Good and Evil are based purely on the parties involved's point of view. Millions of People consider Osama Bin Laden, or suicide bomber or terrorists, evil but I doubt very much that they think themselfs evil. The dont have meetings in Osama's cave going; "Hmmm we need to come up with ways to be more evil, our evil rep is slipping."

During our childhood a set of morals are tought to us by our parents, via spoken word or by example, that helps shape our understanding good and bad. If we had not been tought thouse morals what would we be. If nobody told us killing is bad or taking money that doesn't belong to you is wrong or that forcing yourself on a woman is rape would be have come to those conclusions by ourselfs? I do not think so. Look at our African neighbours where they still exsist in their tribal state...

E.g) Why do a large portion of us not chip our Xboxes? because we are moraly dispositioned to pay for what we enjoy? Yes it is possible that some of us think that way but for many its the fact that they could get banned of Live. If many thought they could get away with it they would do it without a seconds hesitation.

 

[czc]

I would like to think that everyone is good and honest.

But I know they're not - it annoys me immensely when someone says something and then come back and say they never said it.

I do think its a lot easier to fall into bad habits than to continue being good. Look at the way most people drive.

 

[Wlad]

For me personally it depends on whether it is real life or in a game. In real life I have a solid set of morals and principles that I adhere to and I will never do "evil" things, at least not on purpose. Sure, I've been a naughty boy here and there, but I'm not proud of the bad things I've done and I won't repeat my mistakes. Even then I don't think it was some inherent evil force that made me do these things, in fact I doubt they can be classified as "evil" at all.

When it comes to games on the other hand, I tend to be the evil guy (first) if the game presents me with a choice. The reason for this is simply that I will never be "evil" in real life. Again, I don't think it's some inherent evil force, I just want to do things in a game that I will never do in real life. Sometimes my morals get the better of me in games and I start feeling bad about my in-game decisions and then load a save game and take the less evil road.

 

[Voicy]

What defines morality / evil?

Religion? If so, then how can you be born with it? If religion does not define it, then how can we define it? Also, are animals deemed evil as well for being canibalistic / territorial / polygamous / thieving / etc. ?

Personally I do not believe nature is inherently good or evil, it simply ... is.

 

[OmegaFenix]

I would like to think that everyone is good and honest.

But I know they're not - it annoys me immensely when someone says something and then come back and say they never said it.

I do think its a lot easier to fall into bad habits than to continue being good. Look at the way most people drive.

As long as you drive without endangering other people I dont care how you drive.

If you want a real example look at how acceptable it has become to pirate movies/music/books/games....

 

[czc]

As long as you drive without endangering other people I dont care how you drive.

If you want a real example look at how acceptable it has become to pirate movies/music/books/games....

If you're going to break the rules of the road you'll be more likely to break other rules.

 

[Azimuth]

I think it's enormously cynical to presuppose some sort of inherent evil in the nature of humanity. I'm not denying that many people do wicked things, but rather that this is largely the result of poor socialisation, greed, selfishness, fear, or any of a bunch of other motivating factors.

Given an opportunity to commit some nefarious deed and get away with it, I wouldn't. It's simply not in my nature at all.

...or that forcing yourself on a woman is rape would be have come to those conclusions by ourselfs? I do not think so. Look at our African neighbours where they still exsist in their tribal state.

Not that I'm condoning violence against women whatsoever, but social norms are relative. The concept of rape as a crime against women simply doesn't even exist in some cultures, because women are considered things, property, somewhat less than human. It's a much more complex issue than something so banal as "evil".

 

[OmegaFenix]

I think it's enormously cynical to presuppose some sort of inherent evil in the nature of humanity. I'm not denying that many people do wicked things, but rather that this is largely the result of poor socialisation, greed, selfishness, fear, or any of a bunch of other motivating factors.

Given an opportunity to commit some nefarious deed and get away with it, I wouldn't. It's simply not in my nature at all.



Not that I'm condoning violence against women whatsoever, but social norms are relative. The concept of rape as a crime against women simply doesn't even exist in some cultures, because women are considered things, property, somewhat less than human. It's a much more complex issue than something so banal as "evil".

Is that what I said? Good and Evil being subjective the a persons point of view?

 

[Tsar]

I think allot of it boils down on how you were raised. Look at the nazis,the germans treated there children like things and not people. They did terrible things to them and they were bound up and tied down during there first few years. There cots where riddle with lice and other things. You can see hitler and other nazis comparing the jews as lice. It is all self projection.

 

[czc]

The thing is, some people who grow up poor and abused grow up to be very good people and then on the other hand you have people who had a good life, weren't beaten and grow up to be cruel. How does something like that happen?

As regards to cultures; some cultures are inferior then, according to me. Cultures are based on principals laid down by the people that make them up.

Is that what I said? Good and Evil being subjective the a persons point of view?

This brings in all sorts of shades of grey. i.e. I can't afford a game but I wan't to play it so I'll steal it. But its okay I'm only stealing because I'm poor.

 

[Tsar]

The thing is, some people who grow up poor and abused grow up to be very good people and then on the other hand you have people who had a good life, weren't beaten and grow up to be cruel. How does something like that happen?

As regards to cultures; some cultures are inferior then, according to me. Cultures are based on principals laid down by the people that make them up.



This brings in all sorts of shades of grey. i.e. I can't afford a game but I wan't to play it so I'll steal it. But its okay I'm only stealing because I'm poor.

But you do not know that rich person was beaten up?. Or maybe he was always abandoned. And some people just pick them selves up I guess.

I just know that the germans and the japenese treated there kids during those year really really bad.

 

[OmegaFenix]

I think allot of it boils down on how you were raised. Look at the nazis,the germans treated there children like things and not people. They did terrible things to them and they were bound up and tied down during there first few years. There cots where riddle with lice and other things. You can see hitler and other nazis comparing the jews as lice. It is all self projection.

But you do not know that rich person was beaten up?. Or maybe he was always abandoned. And some people just pick them selves up I guess.

I just know that the germans and the japenese treated there kids during those year really really bad.

Im sorry this is Off topic but Where do you get your facts? Please link me to the sources of these claims.

Did the Nazi's do this to jewish children in the camps, yeah i guess. But their own children? Nope I think you need to go check your facts.

 

[OmegaFenix]

The thing is, some people who grow up poor and abused grow up to be very good people and then on the other hand you have people who had a good life, weren't beaten and grow up to be cruel. How does something like that happen?

As regards to cultures; some cultures are inferior then, according to me. Cultures are based on principals laid down by the people that make them up.



This brings in all sorts of shades of grey. i.e. I can't afford a game but I wan't to play it so I'll steal it. But its okay I'm only stealing because I'm poor.

Does stealing something coz you can't afford it make it right? Maybe rather look at why you cant afford it and try and remedy that, unfortunatly for the masses its much easier to extend you hands, open palms and say "I dont have, please give..." "I cant afford to feed my seven children, please help us." I believe if you cant provide for yourself or those dependent on you you should A) not have had more children than you could care for and B) is a tax on society and should be removed from it.

 

[Tsar]

Im sorry this is Off topic but Where do you get your facts? Please link me to the sources of these claims.

Did the Nazi's do this to jewish children in the camps, yeah i guess. But their own children? Nope I think you need to go check your facts.

Um I said the nazis not the nazi kids. Hitler was abused when he was a kid by his alcholic father,stalin the same thing. Did you know that japenese mothers bribed there kids to sleep with them while there fathers where at war during the 18th century. My friend made me listen to a audio book about it.

Google it. I don't know the links to it.

 

[czc]

Does stealing something coz you can't afford it make it right?

I was trying to point out the self justification for stealing something for into a grey area for people(at least in their own minds), not weather is right or wrong.

 

[OmegaFenix]

Um I said the nazis not the nazi kids. Hitler was abused when he was a kid by his alcholic father,stalin the same thing. Did you know that japenese mothers bribed there kids to sleep with them while there fathers where at war during the 18th century. My friend made me listen to a audio book about it.

Google it. I don't know the links to it.

I think you have to read your own post again:

I think allot of it boils down on how you were raised. Look at the nazis,the germans treated there children like things and not people. They did terrible things to them and they were bound up and tied down during there first few years. There cots where riddle with lice and other things. You can see hitler and other nazis comparing the jews as lice. It is all self projection.

You said Germans not Hitler. Yes Hitler was abused as are alot of children today. The way you posted it there your saying the german people all treated their children like that.
Similarly you said the Japanese like it was common practice. There may have been isolated cases but Im pretty sure it wasn't a national practice.

Oh FYI Stalin wasn't a Nazi.

I was trying to point out the self justification for stealing something for into a grey area for people(at least in their own minds), not weather is right or wrong.

Sorry dude you Misuderstood me. I wasn't saying it at you, was speaking in general. I agree once you start justifying something to yourself anything i possible.