Lycanthrope
New member
Oooh yes. Looooooove unwrapping games! That new-smell is epic
Just wanted to say kudos to Chris for an article that spurned a rather enjoyable discussion
Piracy - is it a dirty word?
- Thread starter Tinman
- Start date
Oooh yes. Looooooove unwrapping games! That new-smell is epic
Just wanted to say kudos to Chris for an article that spurned a rather enjoyable discussion
Raven Gold
Local Boy Hunter
By pirating, I'm trying to do my part in bringing down large companies who make these mistakes, I don't want them to continue poluting the industry and getting away with it.
Why should I pay and than go out of my way to fix thier mistakes? In my mind the publisher and devolper are one entity. If the publisher agrees to releace a game that is full of bugs than they are at just as much fault as the developer, if the deveopler agrees to hand over the rights of the game knowing the publisher as going add that restrictive DRM, they are at just as much fault. "But I didn't rape the little girl, my friend did it, I just recorded it and sold the videos."
Did you try re-installing it recently? WinLive won't register it because of some expired key bug and now the multiplayer is useless and you have to crack it to play the singleplayer. If these problems aren't adressed by the makers of the game, they don't deserve anything.
I never had any problems with SecuRom and D-tools, but had to download about a million cracks to get around that WinLive and Rockstar Social bullshit that has only one purpose, multiplayer and social networking, neither of which I wanted anything to do with, I just want to play the damned game! Rockstar and any WinLive games have since than been removed from potential buying lists and onto the torrent list. Your securom issue highlights my point even further, you shouldn't have had to send any e-mails in the 1st place. The game is supposed to just install and play.
I'm not talking about buying games off steam, I mean buying the game in a retail shop and than you need to activate it on steam. Another torrent list item. The new AVP and Saints Row 2 are the two mistakes I made.
I for one liked it better when gaming was the domain of shut-in outcasts, it meant that games were made with passion, not money. Shit like C&C4, IWnet and the Ubi DRM would never have been though of. Starcraft 2, MW2, BFBC2 and BlOps would all have had LAN support and the latter two would have been bug free. The entire concept of porting would never have had the chance to exist. And much, MUCh more. "Vote with your wallet" is the popular term, I do that, and I take it one step further by retaliating the only way I can.
Why should teh paying customer go out of thier way to get the thing to work because of the fault of the ones who wrote the software? As I've said, it's supposed to just work.
Ever consider I might just be a comercial user?
Yes, I am spitefull, I'm elitist and entitled. And you know what? I'm proud of it! It means I won't take shit and I demand quality. People would not get away with peddling half-assed crap and screwing people over because they're cheap, greedy assholes if things were run with morrals instead of profit in mind.
Azimuth
New member
And yet, you still play the games.
Lol. I stopped reading this paragraph right here.
How much bandwidth do you use up in an average month, downloading games? I'll bet it's more - a lot more - than Steam's mandatory updates. Also, you can't complain about bugs and other game issues, when you refuse to be part of the solution.
You say this like every single game released before 1995 was amazing. Also, I'm quite convinced you have absolutely no idea what "porting" means.
Furthermore, "vote with your wallet" means "don't buy the game", not "steal the game to punish the world because it's not good enough for you". Pirating software is utterly self-defeating. Not only are you actively vindicating efforts to circumvent piracy, you're fucking ruining it for everybody else.
And yet, not everybody has issues with the game. I realise you're woefully - and wilfully - ignorant of the process of game development, but try - it's hard, I know - to consider that with the almost infinite hardware variations that have to be supported these days, problems are kind of inevitable.
And, again, stuff like DRM? It's because of people like you.
But you're not. You're an unemployed wannabe script kiddie living in your mom's house.
Lolirony. You're a cheap, greedy asshole with no morals. You said so yourself.
Lycanthrope
New member
Romanticised ideal, but it doesn't work like that. By pirating, you also enforce their fears, you no longer become a voice in their market but a whiner who doesn't contribute TO the industry. It's like voting, you can't really complain about the government if you've done nothing to try change it.
The publisher owns the rights to the game, it's actually pretty rare that a developer owns rights to their own games. Developers need funding and investment, this comes from publishers, with stock-holders and board members who are usually entirely detached from the industry as a whole (why, I believe, it's so easy for DRM companies to sell their snake oil to them). It's also why independent developers like CDProjekt and, as czc said, Paradox should be supported, why games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect should be supported.
It's a kind of living proof that DRM doesn't work and truly great games sell like hotcakes. If, after that, you still insist on pirating then there is nothing that you are contributing to the industry. You become a faceless pirate, not a scorned or upset customer.
Publishers also regularly force deadlines on developers, sometimes unfairly. I remember Troika had many issues with their publishers, especially Activision
Developers are rarely your enemy.
Think I first played it about three weeks ago, actually. I bought a second-hand copy with an unused key, my other half bought his new off ebay. We installed the 6.4MB patch after installing and that was that. Patches aren't that unusual in games, are they?
I agree. Well, partially. LIVE games have one advantage in multiplayer--ease of hooking up. Granted, at first you had to create a LIVE account pretending you lived in the US or the UK to get past the territorial discrimination, however, switching over the SA last November bagged me 800 points I spent on a cute avatar and a silly little costume. I don't own a 360, so it doesn't really faze me too much, but South Africans are still given the short end of the stick there, I believe--You have more features with a UK/US account than a ZA one.
Resident Evil 5 and Gears were both incredible fun in co-op, courtesy of LIVE. While I don't really care too much for achievements, they're nice to show off (mostly to myself
).Regardless, LIVE was mostly for the multiplayer component of GTA, RE5 and Gears, if you wanted to play without it, you didn't need to use LIVE. However, I agree, you're a customer, you paid full price for the game, you are entitled to ALL of its features, not just the basics.
We'll have to see what Rockstar do with the next GTA; see if they make the same mistakes. Thing is, as far as the Rockstar Social Club thing went, many liked it. I didn't, I have XFire for uploading screenshots and videos, but the fact is that many wanted it, which is why it was there in the first place.
So you'd torrent it (read: download), but you won't install it on something that would occasionally patch it and keep it up to date and bug-free? Look, I can't stand Steam, it likes to get somewhat confused more often than a chicken with its head cut off. Sometimes it takes AGES to connect, other times it doesn't start up my games, sometimes, even after telling it that I'll manually update a game, it insists on trying to update it regardless. Things have gotten better but if I can avoid Steam, I will.
Here's a funny little factoid for you, I own 55 games on Steam. New Vegas, Dawn of War 2 and Last Remnant are the only games, I think, which were retail-bought using Steam. I can't say I've ever had a problem with them. Again, insert disc, put in serial, install like normal then play. The only difference is that your serial is locked to your Steam account.
It's also possible to play offline, but who'd want that if you get achievements?
I disagree, if gaming remained the domain of the shut-in outcast, we'd never have the AAA titles we see today. Casual gaming makes money, it's a huge earner, much bigger than the die-hard gamers. If it weren't for casual gamers' money filling the industry, most of us would be stuck playing Commander Keen. It's easy to hate casual gamers, you could even say that they're the biggest pirates and blame them for why certain publishers enforce DRM, but that would also mean looking in the mirror and seeing the similarities and risk being placed on the same page as them.
Then don't be a paying customer, but don't support the argument of DRM by pirating it either, otherwise your overblown sense of entitlement feeds the beast. If you enjoy a game enough to play it, buy it. Pirate it after, sure, spam their forums with the fact that you bought it, it sucks ballz0rz and you've pirated it to make it playable, "How's that you stupid fox? I bought your game, I think it's fantastic, just this tiny little issue... I had to pirate it to be able to play it, it's a broken game because of the DRM and idiocy you enforce."
You then become a legitimate customer, with a legitimate concern and not a buzzing annoyance that contributes nothing under the misguided romanticised ideal of fighting the victimisation of clients by being a back-seat revolutionary. If you do nothing, you have nothing: no voice, no integrity, no game and no legitimacy.
As I said, pirates aren't lost revenue, a person that had no intention to buy a game is not lost revenue. If you had intended to buy it, then DRM pops up or some other legitimate concern as a customer, then yes, you are well-within your rights to change your mind about the game and sure, you are then considered lost revenue. If you still went on to play the game, it's difficult for me to think of it as lost revenue because that shows that you had no intention to buy it, you just wanted your cake and to eat it too.
It's difficult for me to think of you as a customer any longer when you're at their heels for not doing what you want but don't support them and air your legitimate concerns as a customer. There's a way to go about making a difference, being spiteful doesn't make a difference, it's apathy. Apathy has never been exactly... revolutionary.
If that were true, that would mean that you're making an income off of someone else's work without compensating them for it. That would be disgusting, actually.
My dear Raven, have you considered getting yourself a console? Your spiteful, elitist and self-entitled pride would likely be better-suited there, where DRM can't upset you. PC gaming is evidently not suited to you.
I hear that the 360, especially, is quite fun. Apparently you can take it to friends and LAN with them, you have the social aspect, the achievements, the avatar, no DRM, no real bugs (uniformity FTW).
I'm serious, get a console and get back to supporting the industry. All your concerns are legitimately addressed in one compact device.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
/Laughs at people debating with Raven
Ive gone through all of this with him on multiple occasions. Debating with him is like debating with a particularly stubborn toadstool.
Ive gone through all of this with him on multiple occasions. Debating with him is like debating with a particularly stubborn toadstool.
Lycanthrope
New member
As long as someone is willing to interact, there's hope
Maybe I'll learn something about the way he thinks, maybe interacting with him will change my point of view. Who knows 
shadowfox
Anime Junkie
I think Steam is an absolute blessing ... but given how you moan about downloading ... Aren't pirated copies downloaded anyway? If the bandwidth usage bothers you so much, get uncapped.
Essentially ... you're always full of bullshit Raven. Where the hell are you going to pay R3k for Win 7? Incredible Corruption? I paid R2,200 for my copy, and I haven't regretted it since. And if your key does get blocked ... it takes 2 minutes to unlock it again, it's a simple safety measure.
Photoshop is insanely expensive - I can agree on that much - especially if you're some private dude who just likes editing graphics/video/whatnot and not making money off the deal - I can see that the R20k-odd pricetag might be a bit of a big ask. However - there are freeware alternatives - GIMP, InkScape, Paint.NET
OpenOffice - version3 is as good. If you need an email client, Thunderbird is your friend.
7Zip exists
Not sure which particular piece of software you're referring to ... since there are several ... but alternatives exist.
95% of the software running on my machine is freeware - and in many cases as good as, if not better than their paid for counterparts.
Shamrock
New member
Raven do you honestly believe you're "sticking it to gaming corporations" by pirating? Millions of people pirate. Millions more are actually decent enough to give developers what they deserve. Yes, some developers are assholes and don't deserve anything, so don't give it to them, but playing their games anyway? Isn't that the exact same thing?
I love buying games. I love supporting developers when they've clearly earned it. I hate developers and will never forgive them when they ruin games by making them unplayable just so pirates can't get to them, but I'm not about to pirate to "get back at them" or something stupid like that. Withdrawing support, yeah. I'm not gonna touch those games. Pirating them may as well be free publicity.
I love buying games. I love supporting developers when they've clearly earned it. I hate developers and will never forgive them when they ruin games by making them unplayable just so pirates can't get to them, but I'm not about to pirate to "get back at them" or something stupid like that. Withdrawing support, yeah. I'm not gonna touch those games. Pirating them may as well be free publicity.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
This is Raven Gold:
Nasty hobbitses steals our precious scenes, makes gameses for everybodies.
Bwhahahahahahaha!
^5
shadowfox
Anime Junkie
Subversion
MyGaming staff
I can't figure out if Raven is just trying to troll us.
Look at this:
Do you really not realise that the reason Ubi DRM, SC2 with no LAN etc. exists is because you pirate the games? If noone had ever pirated games, DRM would not exist. You claim to pirate games because of restrictive DRM, but restrictive DRM exists because you pirate games. Your argument is circular (read: stupid).
Come on now Raven, just be honest. If those Ubi games had no DRM whatsoever, you still would have pirated them; are you really going to try and pretend otherwise? Your one and only motivation is not paying for something you can get for free without consequence, everything else is just fluff and rationalisation. It's the same thing I said in the article - if you're going to pirate, at least be honest about your reasons.
Look at this:
Do you really not realise that the reason Ubi DRM, SC2 with no LAN etc. exists is because you pirate the games? If noone had ever pirated games, DRM would not exist. You claim to pirate games because of restrictive DRM, but restrictive DRM exists because you pirate games. Your argument is circular (read: stupid).
Come on now Raven, just be honest. If those Ubi games had no DRM whatsoever, you still would have pirated them; are you really going to try and pretend otherwise? Your one and only motivation is not paying for something you can get for free without consequence, everything else is just fluff and rationalisation. It's the same thing I said in the article - if you're going to pirate, at least be honest about your reasons.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Sad thing is he is honest, he really believe the stuff that sprouts forth from his posts everytime this topic comes up. Everything pre y2k is awesome and everything made in the last 10 years is shit and doesn't "deserve" his cash thus he pirates it to stick it to the man and make studios make games like in the good old day.
shadowfox
Anime Junkie
And in the meantime he gets himself stuck in an infinite loop of idiot with his personal brand of twisted logic. Games are shit - so logically speaking he shouldn't be playing them, let alone pirate them. Yet, shitty or not, he still DOES play them.
And because they're sooooo shitty ... they get scores like:
I didn't have the patience to look for more gems.
And the best part is how he expects games to be completely bug-free on launch. Wakey-wakey Raven ... it's the 21st Century and the latest blockbusters are no longer games consisting of 25 files and a few thousand lines of code you can fit onto a single floppy disk.
It's next to impossible to test for every possible eventuality, whereas with thousands of users playing the game and pushing it to the limits is bound to pop up something that the devs missed. In case you don't get the idea, they are busy working and don't really have time to play the game through several times in order to spot all the bugs you are so epically good at apparently finding.
As for your little philosphy of "sticking it to the man" - hahaha ... do you think they even notice you? At least, as a legal buyer, I'm worth a singular unit. Like 1 out of 10,000 purchasers. You pirates are a percentage of one unsightly lump, kinda like a cancer. You're not even worth a full number. Your feedback counts for nothing where bugs are concerned.
And like any cancer, it needs to be treated and removed ... hence DRM. If the cancer goes, so does the treatment.
You ... my lad ... are the cause, and you're most definitely not going to be the cure. You are a shining example of the most base of human desires and emotions - greed, laziness, self-entitlement. You want everything for nothing - but at least you give the rest of us something to measure ourselves against and feel good about ourselves.
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OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
@Fox Dude I know i've stopped debating with him ages ago.
shadowfox
Anime Junkie
That was me pressing the stop key ... I don't think I'm actually going to pay attention to anything he says from this point forward.
Fivel
New member
Respect Shadow.... Calling a spade a spade! Well said!!!
