Fable’s Creators Reckon Pre-Owned Sales are Worse Than Piracy

tpex said:
Jislak... guys

Alot of you still missing the point, yes games are over priced, I agree, still IMHO its about supporting the dev, thats why I can't wait for uncapped and buy all my games on steam
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just go with web africa, they have uncapped steam
 
In a way that guy is making sense that the dev's don't end up getting any of the money that we spend on 2nd hand sales but I mean it's very inconvenient that the games in the first place have such high prices so that the best option is to buy them 2nd hand. There are the few odd titles that people buy new but other than that, I personally buy the majority of my games 2nd hand BECAUSE I simply can't afford to buy them new. Simple as that.
 
tpex said:
well I understand now, you guys are more concerned with your own pocket.
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What is wrong with that?

Anybody who says we shouldn't be selling games please never ever sell anything you own or you'll be a hypocrite. Don't sell that old pc so you can afford a new one because you are taking money away from the manufacturer. The arguments here are just silly.

There is nothing different between a physical product and a license agreement. Software only comes with a license agreement because their physical attributes allow easy copying. It does not give anybody a fair right to say what I must do with it after I used it. Developers are clearly only concerned with their own pockets. Games have been influenced too much by this concept called capitalism and are no longer just for fun. I think I'll just withdraw from it altogether.
 
Voicy said:
Again, I refer to my 'selling-your-2nd-hand-car' analogy.

Selling it to a friend (who can't afford new cars/games) in order to put down a deposit on a new car (read new AAA title game) promotes ongoing commerce. Selling it to a dealership (read BT-Games) will get you less money for it - and in turn they'll put a markup on it and continue making money off the sale even if the supplier (car manufacturer/game publisher) only sells it once.

If they want to make money, lower the prices of digital releases significantly (as the overheads are next to nothing) and that way it's sold for less, but can't be resold.
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But it's not the same. Games have no cost of ownership (MMOs excluded of course). A car definitely has cost of ownership. You ever bought official OEM spares for you vehicle from the manufacturer? Expensive, eh? They don't mind second hand sales, cause they know they've got you by the ballas when it comes to spares and services. Cars are almost unaffordably expensive to maintain these days once they are out of their service/maintenance plans. Sure you can take it to a backyard mechanic or buy grey import/cheap knockoff spares, but the majority of people would rather service/fix their vehicle with the official dealer. So they don't mind the second hand sales too much cause they've got a nice big support network to make money with. And... the car manufacturers are also making it more and more difficult to do DIY services and maintenance. The engines are getting more and more complex and the skills required to work on said engines more and more speciality. So even they are clamping down on second hand sales.

And the thing about games not having a cost of ownership is getting less and less true. I suspect the dramatic increase in DLC for games has directly to do with the second hand market. The majority of DLC these days ship with the game, all the assets, maps and textures required for the DLC is already on the disc, you just need to buy an unlock code to access it. Sure thing the DLC isn't mandatory... but... Want to jam MP with your friends? BAM! Sorry lad, your friends (the douchebags :p) all have the DLC, you're gonna have to cough up if you want to share in the fun. Selling the game to your friend? Bam! teh DLC is tied to your user account, so your friend need to take his car (game) to the dealer (developer) to get serviced (activate his own version of the DLC). So one way or the other, they will have their slice of the pie, even if it requires selling half a game to you at full price so they can sell the rest of the game to you later at tiny bite sized easy to digest prices which add up quickly.

It's a pretty lame situation, and one of the reasons I'm playing a lot more indie games these days than anything else. Big publishers are teh suck!
 
i think places like BT games should register with the deferent game developers so they can keep track of resell... i mean look at it this way... when games come out they are expensive... after a few months they decrease in price anyway... so in the same way instead of a guy selling his game to a friend or to BT games for the arguments sake, let them work on a point bases where you can then come give your game back and then get discount on another game. this way both parties are cared for... you take the change of buying a second hand game from BT games that might be scratched exc. he money then still goes to developers...

this is just a suggestion not a solution....YET!!!!
 
firefly137 said:
i think places like BT games should register with the deferent game developers

(snip)

this is just a suggestion not a solution....YET!!!!
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No thanks.
My purchased goods are my own, and nobody has any right whatsoever to tell me what I can or can not do with that property.
 
wheunis said:
No thanks.
My purchased goods are my own, and nobody has any right whatsoever to tell me what I can or can not do with that property.
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now you see... that is why things dont go anywhere in this world... no one wants common ground... everyone is just out for themselves... SIGH!!!
 
wheunis said:
And how is that any different from the developers who charge top dollar for their shovelware?
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Did they point a gun at you and forced you to buy it? Poor you. You should sue them for purchasing under duress, perhaps we can get them shot by a polish fire squad.
 
tpex said:
I never said there is anything wrong with it
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I know you didn't but saying something like "you guys are more concerned with your own pocket" makes it sound like we are being selfish whether it's was intentional or not.

firefly137 said:
now you see... that is why things dont go anywhere in this world... no one wants common ground... everyone is just out for themselves... SIGH!!!
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Why should there be any common ground? My analogy still stands. If I can resell physical goods without anybody giving a shit I can sell games. I buy a game on the open market I can sell it on the open market. Common ground plain and simple so no need for any shenanigans.

Imber said:
Did they point a gun at you and forced you to buy it? Poor you. You should sue them for purchasing under duress, perhaps we can get them shot by a polish fire squad.
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He never said anybody did. You're misconstruing the context of his post.
 
Prometheus said:
Why should there be any common ground? My analogy still stands. If I can resell physical goods without anybody giving a shit I can sell games. I buy a game on the open market I can sell it on the open market. Common ground plain and simple so no need for any shenanigans.
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its because of this mind set that thing are going the way they are. common ground between us as buyers and them as seller so that both sides benefit. so we dont pay to much and they get the value for the product that they worked on. im not talking about we should stand back and let them do what they want but there is just a better way then placing blame( we blame for high price they blame piracy... for example). :D
 
So next time I'll pirate a Lionhead game and buy the rest secondhand.

This is turning into the whole Napster vs Metallica thing
 
pantsula said:
So next time I'll pirate a Lionhead game and buy the rest secondhand.

This is turning into the whole Napster vs Metallica thing
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Nawwww.
Seeing as they consider second-hand worse than piracy; They have just given us free pass to pirate the rest of everything they ever make again.

Obviously by their own words, LionHead would rather have us pirate than buy second-hand. So pirating it is!

I'm off to find me a Fable3 torrent...
 
wheunis said:
Nawwww.
Seeing as they consider second-hand worse than piracy; They have just given us free pass to pirate the rest of everything they ever make again.

Obviously by their own words, LionHead would rather have us pirate than buy second-hand. So pirating it is!

I'm off to find me a Fable3 torrent...
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context vs content...:D

your reading something that there is not!!!
 
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This is so stupid. I work hard (ok most of the time) for my games/hardware etc. If i want to sell it if its shite or finished playing it, i will do so.
 
JackBauer said:
This is so stupid. I work hard (ok most of the time) for my games/hardware etc. If i want to sell it if its shite or finished playing it, i will do so.
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m not saying your doing wrong... im just saying if there was a common ground then we wouldn't have this discussion... so we will go round and round till such time comes. but or now do as you think best.. :)
 
I still don't know why there should be common ground. Hardware maker has a right to make and sell a harddrive. I have a right to resell it. Common ground there plain and simple. I have never seen Seagate complain about second hand sales so why should a developer or publisher?

Can't see why there is a need for any discussion around this. Perhaps the problem lies with the concept of intellectual "property" and people wanting more and more things they are not entitled to. The whole copyright concept has been redefined so much already it's unrecognisable from its original inception.
 
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