Is online piracy really "theft"?

[fridgevr]

What is he taking that is the point. There is nothing physical about digital content so what is it that he is taking without paying for? Taking someones credit card details from a game is illegal as that is fraud and identity theft. Its not stealing. They don't get charged with theft but identity theft.

 

[Enlightened End]

The thread is a logic argument. By definition theft is removal of property with unlawfully. But consider this - neither French law nor European conventions recognize software as patent-able - therefore can piracy even considered as theft in Europe when you can't even claim it as their "property".

 

[Xero]

I honestly don't get how this discussion is still going on, the debate should have evolved to whether or not it matters if it is seen as illegal or not

You can counter argue the whole piracy thing to death, it comes down to simple intellectual property laws, if you are unfamiliar with them, go read up and you will see that the unauthorized duplication of any IP is illegal, there is no way around this, there is no means of justifying it

The guy somewhere in this thread that argued value of something as being over what it was supposed to be, lol, really now, is that what this argument has come to?
Do you walk into a car dealership and tell them that you'll give them 50% on account of the car you are getting being overpriced in your opinion ?

The really interesting part of this, and this is especially for those that are still trying to justify this issue as being debatable or a grey area is does it really matter if it is illegal or not
In most cases it won't matter, you know you are downloading something that you have not paid for everytime you do it, does this prevent you downloading, no it doesn't

Why not ?
Because you are justifying it or because in your heart you are a pirate and believe in the digital revolution aimed at making all information free to everyone?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the ONLY way of curbing piracy is using "low cost to access online streaming" for everything
Not making everything free as this would have a wide spread economic effect, but rather making things affordable to everyone, accessible by all and sustainable

 

[Adoxographist]

Intellectual property is a real right protected under South African Law. Xero makes a good point, without these companies making a income, they won't be able to produce new content. But they are way too expensive, hence the piracy.

 

[lordvushu]

Notice that the prices for products are lower over seases than here? how can you charge lower in a first world country where people can afford , than double or triple the price in a third world country? Nah i test the games before i buy them. I actually do like getting all those free contents online with an original.

 

[Fivel]

Notice that the prices for products are lower over seases than here? how can you charge lower in a first world country where people can afford , than double or triple the price in a third world country? Nah i test the games before i buy them. I actually do like getting all those free contents online with an original.

For PC games that's not true....

 

[Necuno]

I honestly don't get how this discussion is still going on, the debate should have evolved to whether or not it matters if it is seen as illegal or not

You can counter argue the whole piracy thing to death, it comes down to simple intellectual property laws, if you are unfamiliar with them, go read up and you will see that the unauthorized duplication of any IP is illegal, there is no way around this, there is no means of justifying it

The guy somewhere in this thread that argued value of something as being over what it was supposed to be, lol, really now, is that what this argument has come to?
Do you walk into a car dealership and tell them that you'll give them 50% on account of the car you are getting being overpriced in your opinion ?

The really interesting part of this, and this is especially for those that are still trying to justify this issue as being debatable or a grey area is does it really matter if it is illegal or not
In most cases it won't matter, you know you are downloading something that you have not paid for everytime you do it, does this prevent you downloading, no it doesn't

Why not ?
Because you are justifying it or because in your heart you are a pirate and believe in the digital revolution aimed at making all information free to everyone?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the ONLY way of curbing piracy is using "low cost to access online streaming" for everything
Not making everything free as this would have a wide spread economic effect, but rather making things affordable to everyone, accessible by all and sustainable

Thank you Xero.

 

[czc]

Somewhere along the line someone romanticised this whole debate.

 

[Dan]

Intellectual property has value just like physical objects, and taking it from someone without paying is stealing.

If everyone just paid for their stuff like grown-ups we'd have more quality games and less pointless forum piracy discussions.

 

[Graal]

If everyone stopped looking at the issue in purely black and white terms, we'd be able to actually do something about it.

Want to know what lies at the heart of piracy?

Greed-drive, archaic distribution models from the 90s, within a stagnating industry predominantly driven by corporations only out to make a quick buck, not good games. There's your cause.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Valve are the only ones who actually have a fairly good grip on the whole situation. They're a corporation, but they're not greedy, conniving cunts like the rest and they've actually realized that pirates are just unserved customers.

And if you think receiving more money is going to make corporations like EA or Ubisoft make better quality games?

Pffffffttttffft

 

[MOnk]

I kinda have to agree with Graal a bit here, you can't always just say "well people should be paying for the stuff", you also have to look at other factors.

 

[Dohc-WP]

lets simplify things

 

[Dan]

If everyone stopped looking at the issue in purely black and white terms, we'd be able to actually do something about it.

The law is black and white. The topic under discussion is whether or not piracy is theft, and under our current law taking something that isn't yours constitutes theft.

pirates are just unserved customers

Rubbish. Pirates are cheapskates who think they're committing a victimless crime, not victims who are being forced to buy a product essential for life.

While I agree that many of the distribution models need revision, the fact is that video games are a luxury, not a necessity, and there's no excuse for taking something that isn't yours that someone else deserves to be paid for just because it's easy to do or because you dislike DRM and such.

 

[MOnk]

Video game piracy isn't the only kinda there is. Just look at how backwards the music and TV distribution chains are in SA. There is no way to buy legit digital music in SA unless you are happy with committing fraud and getting a US iTunes account. If I could sign up for Pandora or Spotify I would but I can't, I sure as hell not buying CDs full of songs I don't want, so instead I listen to internet radio/grooveshark and once in a blue moon I download an album.

TV is the same story, if I could subscribe to Netflix or Hulu I would but I can't and since we already have DTSV prem in the house I feel completely justified in downloading everything I want to watch. I'm not taking any money away from DSTV since I already give them all the money they are going to get from me but now I can watch what I want, when I want instead of having them dictate which shows they are going to broadcast and when.

 

[Uberutang]

Just make game f2p and charge for extra stuff via micro transactions.

 

[Dan]

Video game piracy isn't the only kinda there is.

Agreed; I was talking more specifically about video games. There are other factors that come into play with music and geographical boundaries, etc. but the whole "copying games isn't stealing" argument holds absolutely no water whatsoever.

 

[MOnk]

I'm not sure the article was saying copying games isn't stealing I think it was just saying that you have to think about it differently than you do about theft of physical objects. Sure it's not completely different but it's not exactly the same either.

 

[Maplassie]

Dunno if you guys knew this? That song that is used in the Anti Piracy video on the DVD's and Blue Rays?

Anti-piracy group BREIN is caught up in a huge copyright scandal in the Netherlands. A musician who composed a track for use at a local film festival later found it being used without permission in an anti-piracy campaign. He is now claiming at least a million euros for the unauthorized distribution of his work on DVDs. To make matters even worse, a board member of a royalty collection agency offered to help the composer to recoup the money, but only if he received 33% of the loot

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...y-ad-corruption-scandal-erupts-response.shtml

 

[MOnk]

Hahahahah CLASSIC.

That's almost as good as finding out about all the illegal torrents being downloaded by the staff at the MPAA and RIAA.

 

[Graal]

Rubbish. Pirates are cheapskates who think they're committing a victimless crime, not victims who are being forced to buy a product essential for life.

And good job for missing the point and painting everyone under the same brush all at once. Let's put it this way. If you want a game, you can go on the internet and order it from a number of retailers, most of whom will ship directly to your door. You can even jump in your whaaaaaaambulance and rush to the nearest shopping centre, where you're bound to find at least one shop selling most of the recent videogame titles. It's easy for you.

Up until a few years ago, in many places in the world, even developed countries, that wasn't possible for a lot of people. The only way they could acquire it was through piracy. Nobody is saying it was right, or that it made it legal, but that's just the way it was. There was a service issue for them, making them unserved customers.

Enter Steam. Problem mitigated.

Can't find the game in your local shops, or they're all sold out? Don't pirate. It's on Steam.

Don't currently have the money for the game? Don't pirate. Steam will have a sale in two or three months.

When iTunes first came out, and people were free to buy those songs they wanted, instead of being charged outrageous prices for whole CDs if they only wanted three songs on the CD, did a lot of people not stop pirating because they suddenly had a more convenient way to acquire their music?

You are always going to get that die-hard group of people who will pirate no matter what, but they are not reflective of all pirates. Piracy is technically illegal, yes. However, now that we've established that, what now? Have those few words stopped pirates in their tracks?

So next time, before doing what you always do in arguments, which is standing in a corner, fingers in your ears and yelling 'herp grownups buy their stuff lololol', stop and think a bit. Stop being the one-dimensional journalist you are, and think for a moment that there is more to piracy than just 'lolfreestuffs'. The gaming industry itself is as much to blame for the state of the piracy scene as anyone else.

You can treat software piracy just like any other theft, but that is a really shallow way of looking at it, and a definite step backwards in the process of looking at a viable solution to the piracy problem. It's the exact same shitty attitude game publishers have, and it's the reason we have to put up with shitty DRM that harms the consumer.