Keep gay out of gaming (MyGaming Column)
- Thread starter James
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Graal
New member
I don't quite get it. The argument is pretty badly fractured. First you want to say it's unnecessary, then you go on to explain that in the games where it's done right it's unnecessary because you didn't like the options presented to you, and then you end off by saying that attempts to bring gay characters into games will segment gamers.
It's no about having characters to relate to. It's about introducing something as everyday as homosexuality into videogames. It's about giving gay gamers the choice, if they want it. Aside from those games that use homosexuality as a selling point or those that totally overplay the gay angle, I can't really think of one valid reason why homosexuality shouldn't be an option in games. I, for one, am glad that companies like Bioware have been able to introduce the topic of homosexuality into their games without making such a big deal of it.
Rampant homophobia is not something that is limited to gaming, so I don't see why homosexuality should be kept out of gaming because a few children like to call everyone fags.
It's no about having characters to relate to. It's about introducing something as everyday as homosexuality into videogames. It's about giving gay gamers the choice, if they want it. Aside from those games that use homosexuality as a selling point or those that totally overplay the gay angle, I can't really think of one valid reason why homosexuality shouldn't be an option in games. I, for one, am glad that companies like Bioware have been able to introduce the topic of homosexuality into their games without making such a big deal of it.
Rampant homophobia is not something that is limited to gaming, so I don't see why homosexuality should be kept out of gaming because a few children like to call everyone fags.
qornea
Much write, very gaming
Your argument is based off of the ability to "choose" - to have an "option". By all means, that's all well and good, when you come off a base of being able to develop a character in a way you see fit.
Except most games DON'T do that. It's a pre-determined character in a pre-determined universe - that means you're not making any choices, you're viewing a character's story. With that, the developers need to structure it as such, market it as such, and portray it as such. My argument bases off that backdrop. Will Ezio's story - the over-reaching story as a whole - be any different if he was gay? Nathan Drake? Marcus Fenix?
Try not and confuse the issue - I mentioned BioWare because it's one of the only company's that actually do the gay thing, and I didn't deride them for it: they treat it like it's a normal thing, because it is. But if it's a normal thing, then why make a big deal about it - it's not that exciting.
It's not about choice - games don't give players choice over the finer details of the characters; BioWare, MMOs, et al are an exception to that idea.
The fag-calling was brought up to highlight a different aspect. The kids' abusive nature isn't a way of going "wah wah people will be mean to me" - it was brought up to emphasise the level we're at as a gaming culture - when women (who are in greater number than the gays by a massive margin) can't even be treated with a modicum of respect. The comparitive pictures were to highlight how games are marketed, pushing the same sort of point.
I understand gay gamers' desire to be represented in games - and fair on that. I understand the necessity of having this representation in all forms of media. Hell, being out and proud and all that is completely necessary for progression everywhere.
But you know what? I play games because it's NOT set in a real world. And I certainly don't need to have a gay character to identify with, relate to represent and extension of myself. I just want to shoot things with a big gun.
I don't go to a restaurant and order a gay burger and eat it with my gay chips. It's a burger. It's chips. It tastes the same. Just because it's not served on a rainbow plate doesn't mean it's any different. So why serve it on a rainbow plate?
Eish, one could write a thesis on this, because there are an abundant of persepctives and ways to approach it. As a column, it's just my view on the matter. We can agree to disagree. Or not.
I think people take this type of thing to seriously. Sexuality is a part of life, doesn't matter on what side of the tree you are swinging. In South Africa, gay marriage is allowed and a person's right to choose (used loosely) their sexuality is protected by our Constitution.
In America, there is this great big battle regarding Gay-rights. They are fighting for acceptance of the lifestyle to make it as day-to-day as any other relationship. With that context it can be argued that these "Gay" characters are a way of showing that being homosexual is as "boring" as being straight.
If a game developer decides to make a game where a person may choose their characters gender and sexuality, then it is for the User to decide. If you don't want to see guy-on-guy or girl-on-girl action, then choose appropriately and leave everyone else to play the game as they want.
This World has to much hate, screw hate.
Back on track, I enjoyed the column, but don't completely agree. To each his own.
In America, there is this great big battle regarding Gay-rights. They are fighting for acceptance of the lifestyle to make it as day-to-day as any other relationship. With that context it can be argued that these "Gay" characters are a way of showing that being homosexual is as "boring" as being straight.
If a game developer decides to make a game where a person may choose their characters gender and sexuality, then it is for the User to decide. If you don't want to see guy-on-guy or girl-on-girl action, then choose appropriately and leave everyone else to play the game as they want.
This World has to much hate, screw hate.
Back on track, I enjoyed the column, but don't completely agree. To each his own.
Necuno
The Piper
MOnk
New member
I tend to agree with the article. You don't have to make everything about sexuality or gender issues or politics or whatever. People are people and gamers are gamers, they want to play awesome games. If an issue genuinely belongs in your game then put it in and make sure you do it right, if it doesn't then just leave it out and don't just shove it in ham-fisted to show how you are 'sensitive' to the issue.
I think even Bioware forgot that since they seemed to focus far more on sexual relationships and who is allowed to bang who in later games than proper character relationships like they did in ME1/2.
I think even Bioware forgot that since they seemed to focus far more on sexual relationships and who is allowed to bang who in later games than proper character relationships like they did in ME1/2.
Graal
New member
My point exactly. Doesn't make a difference in the least, so, why not make them gay if you feel like it?
Neither are heterosexual relationships, for that matter, so why put them in then? I'm all for getting rid of the major fanfare surrounding gay characters, but I don't see it as a reason to remove them.
You can't really compare a hamburger to a fully fleshed out game with multiple fleshed-out characters, but let's go with the analogy. Will a rainbow plate detract from the hamburger's taste? So why not server it on a rainbow plate?
For me, it's just a bit arb. I really like that games are starting to reflect the modern world, making things such as homosexuality more acceptable in a medium where it has previously been downplayed or non-existent. I mean, the Eastern videogaming market has been doing it for ages, and you don't hear any major fanfare about it from them. Hell, The Last Remnant has a gay bartender who dotes on the prince. I bet many people who played the game probably barely took notice or didn't even care.
My point is just, as long as it doesn't detract from the rest of the experience by being overstated or focused on solely as a selling point, why not? I screwed Kaiden in ME3, I fought the Reapers, I fought Cerberus, I shat my pants at the end. My experience wasn't much different than that of the majority of people who romanced their little sisters (Tali) or the blue nympho (Liara).
qornea
Much write, very gaming
I think you're misinterpreting the battle "against gay" in this context - and I see it's something that a lot of people are missing. Does it help if I say that the article, summmed up, is about attaching the label "gay" onto everything as if it's a "thing"? Like making your protagonist black would suddenly make it a "black" game.
I'm not saying remove them. I never said BioWare was doing anything else other than highlighting how "normal" gay relationships are. They're just as boring to see in a game as the straight ones. Definitely not lambasting them for putting it in - but I reiterate: it's not a core part of the game. You and I both chose to bang different people in ME3 - but we still saved the galaxy. Mass Effect 3 wasn't any more a "gay" game for you, as it was a "alien sex" simulator for me.
If you're talking about a fully-fleshed out game with multiple fleshed-out characters in the context of what I'm arguing, then your hamburger hasn't arrived yet.
As for the rainbow plate analogy - let's look at the lawyer game thing I mentioned in the column. It's selling itself as a game about "gay" divorce. No. It's just about divorce. The "gay" label attached to it is actually pretty stupid, in my view.
Putting a gay side character or gay characters into games isn't making it more acceptable. I think that battle is a bit bigger than simply the gaming industry. I don't want gay content removed, or ignored - I just don't want it to be sold and packaged to me as gay content. It's just content.
I think you and I are arguing the same point
I guess my wording was a lot more harsh. In the context of the gamer culture surrounding games (which I highlighted with how women are treated) and the way games are marketed (which I highlighted with the Lara/Lawrence comparison) - I don't believe gay content in gaming will be able to make it in the mainstream, without it being a "gay" game.
And that's what I don't want.