Jeremy
MyGaming Alumnus
The problem with “girlfriend modeâ€, according to a girlfriend
WARNING: This post contains opinions.
WARNING: This post contains opinions.
Time to tackle the Borderlands 2 girlfriend mode debacle
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Since we are being childish I will join in:
WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS AN OPINION... MINE.
I'll start off by quoting something I said on Monday when this little snippet burst forth from the internet.
While I can see what Tarryn is trying to get to, for me, its still a hell of a stretch.
And if you had all of this majority fill out a pole asking if they played games with their significant others and if so did they suck the majority would answer "yes", like the Stereotype of Gamers being nerdy virgin boys who are either super lanky or fat, wear glasses &/or Braces and have little nerdy orgasm over new games, it is part of the culture and it stems from the early day of gaming when social outcast where the gaming majority the assumption that the majority of girlfrieds suck at gaming comes from fact and is, if anything, at best a generalisation and at worst a stereotype. Now however the stereotype is slowly being broken, Nerdy/Geeky is "cool" (if I can use that word) now and we have entire, popular, tv shoes and movies exclusively about geeks/nerds & just like this stereotype slowly being lifted as gaming and nerd culture becomes increasingly mainstream so too will the stereotype of girls or girlfriend sucking at games. Because that is what this is (in my opinion) a stereotype more than an "ism".
I am not saying there isn't sexism in games and that we as a community shouldn't fight it with all that is in us but what we absolutely should NOT do grab our our pitchforks and light our torches to march on the castle everytime someone says something that isn't "politically correct".
If you want to fight sexism stand up against games that objectify women, speak out on advertising and marketing campaigns like the DOA/Tekken swimsuit pre-order bonuses. Lambasting a Designer for using a term that, IMO, quite adequately describes to anyone who hears it what it should to is bordering on petty and at worst turns a true and just cause into the very feminist boogeyman from under who's shadow you are trying to crawl.
WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS AN OPINION... MINE.
I'll start off by quoting something I said on Monday when this little snippet burst forth from the internet.
While I can see what Tarryn is trying to get to, for me, its still a hell of a stretch.
And if you had all of this majority fill out a pole asking if they played games with their significant others and if so did they suck the majority would answer "yes", like the Stereotype of Gamers being nerdy virgin boys who are either super lanky or fat, wear glasses &/or Braces and have little nerdy orgasm over new games, it is part of the culture and it stems from the early day of gaming when social outcast where the gaming majority the assumption that the majority of girlfrieds suck at gaming comes from fact and is, if anything, at best a generalisation and at worst a stereotype. Now however the stereotype is slowly being broken, Nerdy/Geeky is "cool" (if I can use that word) now and we have entire, popular, tv shoes and movies exclusively about geeks/nerds & just like this stereotype slowly being lifted as gaming and nerd culture becomes increasingly mainstream so too will the stereotype of girls or girlfriend sucking at games. Because that is what this is (in my opinion) a stereotype more than an "ism".
I am not saying there isn't sexism in games and that we as a community shouldn't fight it with all that is in us but what we absolutely should NOT do grab our our pitchforks and light our torches to march on the castle everytime someone says something that isn't "politically correct".
If you want to fight sexism stand up against games that objectify women, speak out on advertising and marketing campaigns like the DOA/Tekken swimsuit pre-order bonuses. Lambasting a Designer for using a term that, IMO, quite adequately describes to anyone who hears it what it should to is bordering on petty and at worst turns a true and just cause into the very feminist boogeyman from under who's shadow you are trying to crawl.
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Azimuth
New member
Why most guys don't really get it, according to a guy.
The most important bit:
Check your privilege, guys.
The most important bit:
Check your privilege, guys.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
And if you are a guy, anywhere from 16 to 30 something, and happen to let slip to the girl you are currently chatting up in a bar that you are a huge gamer/nerd then you will either get laughed at, friend zoned or openly mock. When I mention to my female co-workers, who range in age from 21 to 33 + that I game only 1 told me about how she loves Call of Duty on the Wii the rest normally talk about how their boyfriends play. So the sword cuts both ways.
Azimuth
New member
Oh, and I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that gaming is marketed almost exclusively to straight males, and consequently alienating to most women.
You don't see the forest for the trees, OmegaFenix.
Also:
I can't take anybody who actually uses this phrase seriously.
You don't see the forest for the trees, OmegaFenix.
Also:
I can't take anybody who actually uses this phrase seriously.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
I think it has more to do with the stereotype that has long dogged the male gamer but since you are determined the head there; yes gaming is marketed almost exclusively at straight males, because the gaming industry has taking up the mantel of old world "all boys club" no, its because currently, while the it is slowly changing, the vast majority of gamers are straight hetro males however this is a fact that is slowly changing, we are seeing proper female character in games not just Taki's or Lara Crofts we are getting same sex relationship option, NPC's who openly express their homosexuality and protagonist that no longer fall into the white, squared jawed, Caucasian. These things happen because people, gamers of all sexes, sexualities, races and religions stand up and speak out again these issues, there will always be that vocal minority that try and hold it back but as we can clearly see its not working, we, as a culture, ARE moving forward. What you are doing in 2 separate articles, scratch that, opinion pieces is turn something that was said off hand into a some giant over arching sexist undertone which, I am sorry, you will never convince me it is.
When a real issue arises I will gladly lead the charge with you, but this is silly to the points of absurdity.
Thats your choice.
hideinlight
New member
Well now is your chance, go tell them how to make the game equally appealing for ALL woman.
Azimuth
New member
It's not that games don't appeal to women, it's that the marketing is targeted at men. There's a difference.
Glordit
Neo Zeon
I'm sorry but statics are a bunch of F****** Shit. Period. I study statistics as part of my BA and this is what I gathered from it all.
They can be bent and twisted to what ever outcome you want, it all depends on how you collect the data - which is NEVER done correctly. It's always done to get the results you want. If I wanted to get a good result about gaming I will ask people in stores centred around gaming, giving me the results I want. Also asking 1000 random people in the street, do you game does not generate a accurate statistic, 999 of them could say no and 1 yes, then the statistic shows:
"1 in every 1000 people play Video games".
Azimuth
New member
"There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
That said, though, I think it's reasonable to assume that males make up the majority of gamers. I don't think it's a particularly large majority, though. There are plenty of female gamers out there, and the perception that there aren't is just another aspect of that 15-year old "no girls on the internet" meme that persists (no) thanks to the same people who still think Chuck Norris jokes are funny.
That said, though, I think it's reasonable to assume that males make up the majority of gamers. I don't think it's a particularly large majority, though. There are plenty of female gamers out there, and the perception that there aren't is just another aspect of that 15-year old "no girls on the internet" meme that persists (no) thanks to the same people who still think Chuck Norris jokes are funny.
Necuno
The Piper
WARNING: This post contains nothing.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Fixed for you.
Graal
New member
"There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
That said, though, I think it's reasonable to assume that males make up the majority of gamers. I don't think it's a particularly large majority, though. There are plenty of female gamers out there, and the perception that there aren't is just another aspect of that 15-year old "no girls on the internet" meme that persists (no) thanks to the same people who still think Chuck Norris jokes are funny.
Not only that, but it's common sense that all statistics are not necessarily accurate. In this case, however, the statistics will be based on not only surveys, but actual, hard data like how many of the people who show up to gaming expos are male, etc. It will come from more than a simple survey.
University can teach you a lot of things, but common sense is not necessarily one of them.
Glordit
Neo Zeon
Not only that, but it's common sense that all statistics are not necessarily accurate. In this case, however, the statistics will be based on not only surveys, but actual, hard data like how many of the people who show up to gaming expos are male, etc. It will come from more than a simple survey.
University can teach you a lot of things, but common sense is not necessarily one of them.
You have to take certain statistics with a pinch of salt, statistics do work very well, alas they do not work with everything.
Finding the average cost of abatement when you have 10 coal factories producing X amount of carbon emissions each is easier to turn into a statistic, then asking 500 people out of the worlds population if they game or not.
MOnk
New member
[Treads carefully, so as not to be accused of being a dude]
You see this as a chicken and egg problem, are games marketed at guys because mostly guys play games or do mostly guys play games because they are marketed at guys.
Azimuth says "games are marketed at guys" like it's a statement that applies to every game ever but I think when you look at it this isn't really the case. Back when games were stick figures and midi sounds to even hear of a women 'gamer' was something that just didn't happen. There is nothing particularly male orientated about Dungeons and Dragon's since you are in complete control of the stories, so why didn't more women play that?
You could probably think of a least a 100 different games with no particular male bias or agenda and ask the same question, why don't women play those games?
So for me marketing is always going to be a question of money, and how to use it more efficiently. No-one is going to market a game towards women 'just to be fair' if women are unlikely to buy the game anyway, so they would rather go full tilt for their core demographic. Although there is definitely a side argument to be had here with regards to how the whole 'sex appeal' rubbish doesn't actually work the way the marketing people think it does. (It seems people remember the ads more for the T/A than the actual products)
You always have to ask 'is marketing the sole market force' and the answer would be no. Just because a game is marketed at one group doesn't stop people from other groups being interested in and purchasing the product. Look at women's soccer, it gets almost no TV coverage outside of the Olympics and maybe the World Cups and it's becoming a really huge sport because women who want to play do regardless of what's showing on tele.
Like most things with money however, the best and often only way to effect change is to speak with your wallet. Shouting about how you want to be marketed to isn't going to hold much water, you instead of to go out buy the products and show companies that you are a big enough piece of the pie to be worth considering.
I would love more female gamers and respect the ones that already play and always endeavour to treat them in the same fashion I would anyone else.
You see this as a chicken and egg problem, are games marketed at guys because mostly guys play games or do mostly guys play games because they are marketed at guys.
Azimuth says "games are marketed at guys" like it's a statement that applies to every game ever but I think when you look at it this isn't really the case. Back when games were stick figures and midi sounds to even hear of a women 'gamer' was something that just didn't happen. There is nothing particularly male orientated about Dungeons and Dragon's since you are in complete control of the stories, so why didn't more women play that?
You could probably think of a least a 100 different games with no particular male bias or agenda and ask the same question, why don't women play those games?
So for me marketing is always going to be a question of money, and how to use it more efficiently. No-one is going to market a game towards women 'just to be fair' if women are unlikely to buy the game anyway, so they would rather go full tilt for their core demographic. Although there is definitely a side argument to be had here with regards to how the whole 'sex appeal' rubbish doesn't actually work the way the marketing people think it does. (It seems people remember the ads more for the T/A than the actual products)
You always have to ask 'is marketing the sole market force' and the answer would be no. Just because a game is marketed at one group doesn't stop people from other groups being interested in and purchasing the product. Look at women's soccer, it gets almost no TV coverage outside of the Olympics and maybe the World Cups and it's becoming a really huge sport because women who want to play do regardless of what's showing on tele.
Like most things with money however, the best and often only way to effect change is to speak with your wallet. Shouting about how you want to be marketed to isn't going to hold much water, you instead of to go out buy the products and show companies that you are a big enough piece of the pie to be worth considering.
I would love more female gamers and respect the ones that already play and always endeavour to treat them in the same fashion I would anyone else.
Wow this is so funny! Will actually make me buy the game because can clearly see the developers have a sense of humor.
People need to chill out and see the joke for what it is...a joke...geesh!
I actually think this is quite a good marketing strategy. I think the stereotypical "gamer" has changed. It is now young adult males, mostly, who have girlfriends or are married not just the guys who live in their parents basement.
This is aimed at those setups. Like I'm thinking: "Hmmm it would be nice if my wife would play a pc game with me then I spend time with her and get to play games...what wait this has a girlfriend mode and is a cooperative game...hmmmm..."
Also lowers the barrier for entry for the wife/girlfriend if they see this mode and think well it is made for me so maybe I can give this a go.
Anyway my 2 cents
People need to chill out and see the joke for what it is...a joke...geesh!
I actually think this is quite a good marketing strategy. I think the stereotypical "gamer" has changed. It is now young adult males, mostly, who have girlfriends or are married not just the guys who live in their parents basement.
This is aimed at those setups. Like I'm thinking: "Hmmm it would be nice if my wife would play a pc game with me then I spend time with her and get to play games...what wait this has a girlfriend mode and is a cooperative game...hmmmm..."
Also lowers the barrier for entry for the wife/girlfriend if they see this mode and think well it is made for me so maybe I can give this a go.
Anyway my 2 cents
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Wow.
This sums up this entire "girlfriend mode" argument.