EISH Insiders saying this thing is twice as slow as a PS4, what the hell is going on with Microsoft..
Basically, MS decided at the beginning of Xbox One development that they wanted it to be an all around entertainment center with a strong focus on TV and wanted the system to be able to share apps with Windows 8.
For this reason they needed to dedicate 3GB of RAM to the OS.
For this reason they needed 8GB of RAM total.
To not break the bank and work within current tech limitations they had to use DDR3.
DDR3 alone would not give them the necessary gaming performance so they needed a huge amount of ESRAM on the APU and the Move whatevers.
This meant the APU had to be much more complex than the PS4's despite inferior performance.
This has lead to yield and performance problems.
All of this has put them way behind schedule.
So you see the entire problem is they tried to make a gaming console where gaming was not the primary focus. All problems have stemmed from there.
I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.
â— The worst most, mis-communicated reveal in game industry history other than maybe Saturn.
â— Once every 24 hour internet check just to be able to continue to play your games
â— A horrendous proprietary used game system that gives pubs and Microsoft a 10% of the profits, thus ensuring the deals one can get on Used games are reduced and having less options for every gamer
â— Complete inability to rent, lend or borrow games without paying a "fee", since every game must be installed. And the fee is the price of a brand new game, which Phil Harrison tells us to "think of it like a new game", because he is an abominable retard.
â— Complete fucking tall tales and fabrications regarding the "Infinite Power of Cloud" which they did because...
â— ...their system is a woefully underpowered trojan horse arbitrarily increased in price because of...
â— ...a piece of shit dead-end gaming technology called "Kinect 2.0" which on top of being complete garbage for most genres, also is packed in with every system and...
â— ...is also a horrendous invasion of privacy since it cannot be shut off without unplugging the system.
â— A console which is also, after all this time, having massive eSRAM yield issues because Microsoft is caught rushing the One to the market.
â— Also, contrary to the forward thinking Sony and - holy shit - Nintendo, they won't allow indies to self-publish. For no reason at all other than to be awkward, I suppose.
â— Continuing this theme, they are also much, much further behind in supporting indies this go around than PS4 is, thus failing to capitalize on the good will engendered from Indies on 360.
â— And they wasted their reveal talking about TV, TV, TV, TV, TV to do a function that nobody in their right mind would do if they had a DVR, to talk about sports and Kinect and have only two real games at their reveal.
â— And is now liberally peppering all their attacks with a unhealthy dose of aggressive arrogance.
â— On top of that gigantic shit sandwich, they have now also canceled their post-E3 media roundtable, presumably because they're tired of being eviscerated and embarrassed non-stop since January 2013. Once again, because of shit they did and no one else.
â— Plus their presentation of their OS at the media reveal was confirmed to be completely fake, which wouldn't have been terrible except the entire time of the reveal they were trying to convince people it was real. "See how fast this thing moves!?"
â— One final tip: Their dev tools are also comically behind its primary competitor.
Funny stuff that is just random and hilarious and not really life ending:
â— And just for a cherry on top, because this final one is more hilarious than game changing or anything, Xbox Netherlands was caught borrowing images of PS4 exclusives to make their system look more appealing (thanks to JollyCorner for this tip)
DID I MISS ANYTHING GUYZ? Because holy goddamn shit at this point. This has been without exception the most biblical epic failure of console reveals, even topping the PS3's $599.99 just for its sheer confounding, aimless nonsense since the beginning of 2013. Not a single day has passed by without some relentless bit of tortuously negative Xbox One news.
The kicker? This is ALL Microsoft's fault and they should have seen the reaction coming a mile away since the problems they introduced of their own free will has been eviscerated among gamers and the press for years now, to say nothing of things like the Sim City or Diablo III debacle.
So this was in the previous Kinect demo thread, and the conversation shifted completely to a rumor that XBox One was getting a huge GPU clock downgrade. While that seems to still be debated, all insiders do agree that MS is having problems with the yields on eSRAM.
Mods, you can remove "rumor" from the title. ESRAM yields are "troubling", to put it lightly.
This is factual truth.
Btw, you won't hear tech talk at MS' conference. And the tech cannot change at this point. They're stuck with it.
MS rushed, they were caught off guard by Sony, due to a failure in leadership.
For everyone asking- this information is all pretty recent. Around the PlayStation Meeting the Xbox One was way behind (OS + hardware). Engineers were scrambling to get things sorted out.
It turns out, they didn't sort it out. The OS you saw was a complete and total lie. The current plan is to get the yields up, lower the clock rate, and to have enough units out for a sell out in the Fall.
For those asking how this affects performance- to be perfectly frank; it is nothing turning down features won't solve. The mass market will never notice a difference between 1080p and 900p; neither will they care about dynamic shadows / global illumination / or tesselation. Go to your PC - and turn shadows from Ultra to medium, disable tesselation, and lower the resolution to 900p; and you'll find games run totally fine.
Microsoft is purely behind and it's now time to make drastic decisions. I don't think any one is happy about the lower clocks, but no one is depressed about it either. The Xbox One is an all-in-on device; and that's how it will be marketed.
The differences in memory bandwidth and ROPs also match up closely to the PS4 and Xbone bandwidth differences. So yeah, while not perfect, it is the nearest anyone has to real world comparisons.
7850 specs (PS4 in brackets)
1.78 TFLOPS (1.84 TFLOPS)
153.6GB/s memory bandwidth (176 GB/s)
16 CUs (18 CUs)
32 ROPS (32 ROPS)
7770 specs (Xbone in brackets)
1.28 TFLOPS (1.2 TFLOPS)
72GB/s memory bandwidth (68 GB/s)
10 CUs (12 CUs)
16 ROPS (16 ROPS)
The point is, when these two AMD cards are hooked up to PCs with otherwise identical specs, the 7850 gives 2 times the performance over the 7770, even though it only has 1½ times the CUs.
If MS downgrade the Xbone further, the performance difference between it and the PS4 will be more than double.
Basically, MS decided at the beginning of Xbox One development that they wanted it to be an all around entertainment center with a strong focus on TV and wanted the system to be able to share apps with Windows 8.
For this reason they needed to dedicate 3GB of RAM to the OS.
For this reason they needed 8GB of RAM total.
To not break the bank and work within current tech limitations they had to use DDR3.
DDR3 alone would not give them the necessary gaming performance so they needed a huge amount of ESRAM on the APU and the Move whatevers.
This meant the APU had to be much more complex than the PS4's despite inferior performance.
This has lead to yield and performance problems.
All of this has put them way behind schedule.
So you see the entire problem is they tried to make a gaming console where gaming was not the primary focus. All problems have stemmed from there.
I am still in shock at how big of a clusterfuck this is.
â— The worst most, mis-communicated reveal in game industry history other than maybe Saturn.
â— Once every 24 hour internet check just to be able to continue to play your games
â— A horrendous proprietary used game system that gives pubs and Microsoft a 10% of the profits, thus ensuring the deals one can get on Used games are reduced and having less options for every gamer
â— Complete inability to rent, lend or borrow games without paying a "fee", since every game must be installed. And the fee is the price of a brand new game, which Phil Harrison tells us to "think of it like a new game", because he is an abominable retard.
â— Complete fucking tall tales and fabrications regarding the "Infinite Power of Cloud" which they did because...
â— ...their system is a woefully underpowered trojan horse arbitrarily increased in price because of...
â— ...a piece of shit dead-end gaming technology called "Kinect 2.0" which on top of being complete garbage for most genres, also is packed in with every system and...
â— ...is also a horrendous invasion of privacy since it cannot be shut off without unplugging the system.
â— A console which is also, after all this time, having massive eSRAM yield issues because Microsoft is caught rushing the One to the market.
â— Also, contrary to the forward thinking Sony and - holy shit - Nintendo, they won't allow indies to self-publish. For no reason at all other than to be awkward, I suppose.
â— Continuing this theme, they are also much, much further behind in supporting indies this go around than PS4 is, thus failing to capitalize on the good will engendered from Indies on 360.
â— And they wasted their reveal talking about TV, TV, TV, TV, TV to do a function that nobody in their right mind would do if they had a DVR, to talk about sports and Kinect and have only two real games at their reveal.
â— And is now liberally peppering all their attacks with a unhealthy dose of aggressive arrogance.
â— On top of that gigantic shit sandwich, they have now also canceled their post-E3 media roundtable, presumably because they're tired of being eviscerated and embarrassed non-stop since January 2013. Once again, because of shit they did and no one else.
â— Plus their presentation of their OS at the media reveal was confirmed to be completely fake, which wouldn't have been terrible except the entire time of the reveal they were trying to convince people it was real. "See how fast this thing moves!?"
â— One final tip: Their dev tools are also comically behind its primary competitor.
Funny stuff that is just random and hilarious and not really life ending:
â— And just for a cherry on top, because this final one is more hilarious than game changing or anything, Xbox Netherlands was caught borrowing images of PS4 exclusives to make their system look more appealing (thanks to JollyCorner for this tip)
DID I MISS ANYTHING GUYZ? Because holy goddamn shit at this point. This has been without exception the most biblical epic failure of console reveals, even topping the PS3's $599.99 just for its sheer confounding, aimless nonsense since the beginning of 2013. Not a single day has passed by without some relentless bit of tortuously negative Xbox One news.
The kicker? This is ALL Microsoft's fault and they should have seen the reaction coming a mile away since the problems they introduced of their own free will has been eviscerated among gamers and the press for years now, to say nothing of things like the Sim City or Diablo III debacle.
So this was in the previous Kinect demo thread, and the conversation shifted completely to a rumor that XBox One was getting a huge GPU clock downgrade. While that seems to still be debated, all insiders do agree that MS is having problems with the yields on eSRAM.
Mods, you can remove "rumor" from the title. ESRAM yields are "troubling", to put it lightly.
This is factual truth.
Btw, you won't hear tech talk at MS' conference. And the tech cannot change at this point. They're stuck with it.
MS rushed, they were caught off guard by Sony, due to a failure in leadership.
For everyone asking- this information is all pretty recent. Around the PlayStation Meeting the Xbox One was way behind (OS + hardware). Engineers were scrambling to get things sorted out.
It turns out, they didn't sort it out. The OS you saw was a complete and total lie. The current plan is to get the yields up, lower the clock rate, and to have enough units out for a sell out in the Fall.
For those asking how this affects performance- to be perfectly frank; it is nothing turning down features won't solve. The mass market will never notice a difference between 1080p and 900p; neither will they care about dynamic shadows / global illumination / or tesselation. Go to your PC - and turn shadows from Ultra to medium, disable tesselation, and lower the resolution to 900p; and you'll find games run totally fine.
Microsoft is purely behind and it's now time to make drastic decisions. I don't think any one is happy about the lower clocks, but no one is depressed about it either. The Xbox One is an all-in-on device; and that's how it will be marketed.
The differences in memory bandwidth and ROPs also match up closely to the PS4 and Xbone bandwidth differences. So yeah, while not perfect, it is the nearest anyone has to real world comparisons.
7850 specs (PS4 in brackets)
1.78 TFLOPS (1.84 TFLOPS)
153.6GB/s memory bandwidth (176 GB/s)
16 CUs (18 CUs)
32 ROPS (32 ROPS)
7770 specs (Xbone in brackets)
1.28 TFLOPS (1.2 TFLOPS)
72GB/s memory bandwidth (68 GB/s)
10 CUs (12 CUs)
16 ROPS (16 ROPS)
The point is, when these two AMD cards are hooked up to PCs with otherwise identical specs, the 7850 gives 2 times the performance over the 7770, even though it only has 1½ times the CUs.
If MS downgrade the Xbone further, the performance difference between it and the PS4 will be more than double.
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