Who am I to judge gays: Pope
- Thread starter James
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Lycanthrope
New member
That looks fun.
I prefer it a bit more like this:
Except a bit more explicit. And stuff.
But the Beatles seemed a bit more MyG-tolerant
I prefer it a bit more like this:
Except a bit more explicit. And stuff.
But the Beatles seemed a bit more MyG-tolerant
That also looks fun, but could lead to some shenanigans or awkward situations.
Lycanthrope
New member
Shenanigans are where half the fun is.
I dunno, I think I might be getting old, but I look at that and I can't help but dread the clean-up afterwards.
MetalSoup
There's a GIF for that
Lycanthrope
New member
lol. No doubt
Lyt
New member
Nobody said it's not allowed - when your opinion directly contradicts the scientific studies that proved that sexual orientation is deeply rooted in your biology, your opinion is wrong.
DieGrootHammer
Daddy TK
Glordit
Neo Zeon
I could go all night about how calling an opinion "wrong" in itself is wrong. So to make it easier. . .
Wikipedia said:
I Highlighted some points for you to read through. It's his opinion. Not a fact. henceforth, it's allowed to be whatever he/she thinks it to be.
Saying that gay people are born and do not choose to be gay and it is proven via scientific proof then one is allowed to say that it's a fact.
Other than that, what if I decide to become a homosexul simply because I feel that a woman can no longer sufficiently support me and that I feel I need a man in my life? - Will science prove that I was born like that too? - in my opinion, I believe not. I chose to do so, just like I could chose to be straight again.
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MetalSoup
There's a GIF for that
Lycanthrope
New member
So according to this, if it's my opinion that Hydrogen is a metal, I can't be wrong?
I wish I could rep you again
Glordit
Neo Zeon
So according to this, if it's my opinion that Hydrogen is a metal, I can't be wrong?
While that is your opinion, sometimes it's not valid when presented with fact.
So if there is some proof, and I am thinking it's some study conducted on x amount of people from y country. Those "surveys" are so bogus, i'm surprised people still publish things like that. Their results are so broad, you couldn't possibly give a reasonable result.
How is that statement wrong in any way at all, other than Vamp giving his opinion?
Lycanthrope
New member
Well, I think that was kind of his opinion: opinions can be, and often are, wrong.
People are welcome to have them but wrong remains wrong, however you go about colouring it in.
It exists in nature, it exists in humans, it exists. I think the fact that it's so "broad" alone speaks volumes about the fact that it's not as simple as a "choice."
But, if that's not enough, I would've assumed the fact that a gay person can stand in front of you and, without the shadow of a doubt, tell you that they never "chose" to be gay, would be sufficient.
But I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.
Vamp is welcome to his opinion. And no-one claimed otherwise. I just pointed out that he's opening himself up to all sorts of drama by using the words "lifestyle" as "choice" to describe homosexuality.
Is being black a lifestyle or a choice? Blonde? No? Then you'll have to explain to me how being gay is one.
Last time I checked, the personalities in the gay community range from being parading queers and average Joes. You'll have to explain how a lifestyle can be so varied and then you'll have to explain why gay people would choose to endure discrimination, abuse, bigotry, hate-speech, often being disowned by their families and all for a bit of rumpy-pumpy.
It's not quite as clear-cut as some people would like to imagine it is.
I don't really care about whether it's a choice or not, at the end of the day it makes no difference to your sexual orientation. As I said before the only thing I object to is the binary perception of the continuum of sexuality. People can like men or women in varying degrees and as long as that makes them happy then great!
Glordit
Neo Zeon
I would assume that if we took every single gay person on the face of the earth at this current point in time, there could possibly be a pattern of sorts we could follow, or not. Some would say they knew from a young age or where born gay, others may have just given into what they feel works better for them. Some could lie, and some tell the truth. It's all got it's up's and downs.
I would have to deliberate on that topic a little more, but I believe it could be debated in many ways.
Could have also been that vamp was making an attempt to give his opinion(which at this stage could be right or wrong), yet his choice of words at the time (to him) seemed to fit. Yet to someone else they may have misinterpreted them all together.
I can't agree more. Whatever floats your boat in the end.
Lycanthrope
New member
In an ideal world it wouldn't matter whether it was a "choice" or not, but that has huge implications for the argument. In Russia, gays are being attacked and arrested for even suggesting the word, never mind holding hands. The argument? "How dare you promote homosexuality to our children!" As though homosexuality is a choice, that somehow, through talking about homosexuality, children will somehow become gay.
When, in fact, it would only make it easier for people to come out about their sexuality instead of leading false lives and making stupid mistakes.
The word "choice" creates problems, it gives bigoted politicians the liberty to argue that it's like "choosing" to steal something, or murder, or whatever their line of argument puts forth.
Of course it shouldn't matter whether it's a choice or not, but that's not how the world works, and it's not a choice, so why should that illusion and that lie be allowed to be perpetuated?
If you are bisexual, you didn't choose to be attracted to both sexes. If you are gay, you didn't choose to be attracted to the same sex; and if you are straight, you didn't choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. You cannot pick who or what you are attracted to, but you can choose whether or not to lie to yourself and those around you.
I'm tired of this argument. I'm sick to death that it even needs to be argued any more.
But I don't hold it against people for believing what they want to, what I hold against them is for spreading lies as truth, what I hold against them is perpetuating apocrypha.
Graal
New member
Glordit, an opinion in itself cannot be wrong. With that I agree with you. But let's look at the process of formulating an opinion; you analyze information about a certain subject, you draw conclusions from it and then you form an opinion based on those conclusions. Therefore an opinion in itself cannot be wrong, but the information upon which it is based and the conclusions drawn from that information certainly can be wrong, which then invalidates the opinion.
Let me tell you what my opinion on homosexuality is. I actually consider it knowledge, not opinion, but for the sake of this discussion let's say it's my opinion. My opinion is that homosexuality is not a choice and in this case I think my opinion takes precedence over yours. Why? Because I'm gay myself. I've met, spoke to and befriended many other homosexual people in my life. Do you know what the one constant is in every discussion I have with them? Every time I've asked whether being homosexual was a choice, not a single one of them responded that it was a decision they made at any point in their lives.
Now I'm not going to tell you you're not allowed to stick with your opinion. But I am going to ask you, if you won't believe a homosexual person when he tells you why he/she is homosexual, then who will you believe? Are you going to believe heterosexual people who tell you homosexuality is a choice instead?
Let me tell you what my opinion on homosexuality is. I actually consider it knowledge, not opinion, but for the sake of this discussion let's say it's my opinion. My opinion is that homosexuality is not a choice and in this case I think my opinion takes precedence over yours. Why? Because I'm gay myself. I've met, spoke to and befriended many other homosexual people in my life. Do you know what the one constant is in every discussion I have with them? Every time I've asked whether being homosexual was a choice, not a single one of them responded that it was a decision they made at any point in their lives.
Now I'm not going to tell you you're not allowed to stick with your opinion. But I am going to ask you, if you won't believe a homosexual person when he tells you why he/she is homosexual, then who will you believe? Are you going to believe heterosexual people who tell you homosexuality is a choice instead?
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