Who am I to judge gays: Pope

Glordit said:
I would assume that if we took every single gay person on the face of the earth at this current point in time, there could possibly be a pattern of sorts we could follow, or not. Some would say they knew from a young age or where born gay, others may have just given into what they feel works better for them. Some could lie, and some tell the truth. It's all got it's up's and downs.
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I've heard it all. I've known people who were married to people of the opposite sex and came to realise that they were gay. Each of them said the same thing, "I think I knew all along, I just didn't want to admit to it."

To say that they knew from a young age, or had "given into what they felt works better for them" all indicates the same thing--it was there before they either admitted to it or tried to reject it.

I've yet to meet a single person who led a "false life" who said that they didn't feel forced to because of familial expectations or because their friends and family always spoke badly of gay people.

The worst thing is to be a gay person, to know what it's like and to see other gay people "find religion" (read: gay conversion). There is nothing as abominable as seeing someone try to be something they're not because they felt forced into it (society, family, etc) to be accepted and then to drag other people through that mess with them (to have a wife and kids which will inevitably lead to a miserable relationship and a broken home).

I would have to deliberate on that topic a little more, but I believe it could be debated in many ways.
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It's a trait and a normal variation in sexuality. There is nothing physically wrong with gay people. Just as there's nothing physically wrong with being black, white, blonde or brunette. Which is why this analogy works.

Could have also been that vamp was making an attempt to give his opinion(which at this stage could be right or wrong), yet his choice of words at the time (to him) seemed to fit. Yet to someone else they may have misinterpreted them all together.
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And it was his choice of words I picked up on, not his opinion. I certainly didn't mean to offend him or upset him, if that's what you're suggesting? I just wanted to point out the problem with the semantics :)
 
Lycanthrope said:
And it was his choice of words I picked up on, not his opinion. I certainly didn't mean to offend him or upset him, if that's what you're suggesting? I just wanted to point out the problem with the semantics :)
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Sadly I wish people could read sometimes. Stop. Read it again. try to understand what they person is saying, then comment.

Graal said:
Glordit, an opinion in itself cannot be wrong. With that I agree with you. But let's look at the process of formulating an opinion; you analyze information about a certain subject, you draw conclusions from it and then you form an opinion based on those conclusions. Therefore an opinion in itself cannot be wrong, but the information upon which it is based and the conclusions drawn from that information certainly can be wrong, which then invalidates the opinion.
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Looking at this matter; Yes, I may have been a bit rash in my previous content of my posts, but I simply dislike people that bash someones opinion. Without any proper consideration to their thought process or any queries as to how they came to their conclusion.

Going a little off topic here. Any way. Pope feels he doesn't have to judge gay people!

Thats quite a large step in a good direction for gay rights.
 
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While I do believe that in some minority cases, it can be a choice... and I'm specifically referring to people calling themselves bi-sexual... for the most part, there is no way that there is any choice involved and I do have understanding for that.

I won't go into exactly what I believe and why, but I will say this:
If I go to bed now and something freaky happens over the course of the night and I wake up tomorrow as a woman... I'm so gonna be lesbian. There is no universe out there, regardless of my plumbing, where I can see myself doing anything freaky with another dude.
 
I still don't know if I'm ready to say that being gay is something your born with. If we look at life, how many variables are their between conception and sexual maturity that can alter the course of a persons development, there are likely hundreds of factors that could very likely contribute to a person declaring themselves as bisexual/ homosexual/ pan sexual etc.

No while I have no evidence to support my theory that ones development and the various factors/ variables therein can contribute to the development of ones sexuality, this is because I can't travel back in time to a parallel universe and track the development of a child in our universe and compare that to the same child in the alternate universe after changing certain variables. The advantage is just because I can't research my theory doesn't mean its wrong and this is purely my opinion.

The result though is that it does cover those who say that homosexuality is not a choice but something that they've known about themselves. I'm also not saying that those who are homosexual have had a stunted/broken/flawed childhood but that there are so many variables in play its is impossible to draw one answer to what is essentially a deeply personal and subjective matter. My conclusion though is that we need to respect the lives, believes and choices that people make and admire the complexity that resulted in that outcome.

Now to end on a lighter note, my ex said that woman are to blame for gay men. As we all know the pill is an artificial hormone meant to suppress the female reproduction system. This hormone is then passed through urine into our water supply and has proved very hard to remove, thus creating and un balancing of the normal statuesque. While this has been shown have affected the development of certain researched animals, she reasoned that more female hormones in your water supply worked in a similar way that steroids worked to make men more masculine, the oestrogen makes you more feminine. Thus the pill is making society more feminine. The cure to homosexuality is filtered pure bottle water:p
http://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/what-the-pill-is-doing-to-our-water-supply
 
Well I am Catholic (if I must Identify myself with a church) but never agreed with gay people will burn in hell krap.
 
Ike_009, that's a really valid point. People aren't necessarily born homosexual, but the socializing factors at play during their childhood might have an influence on their sexual orientation. I'm a big supporter of the socialization theory myself.

However, I do also believe that some people are simply born with a certain predisposition that makes them more likely to be gay. Say for example we take two siblings. Both might be raised the same way, more or less have the same socializing agents during their childhood, yet one might be gay and the other not. This is the case with me and my brother. I've got a brother who is just slightly over a year younger than me. With such a small age difference, there wasn't a very big difference in the way we were raised and to top it off, most people actually thought we were twins.

Yet, he's as straight as they come and I'm gay. Our childhoods were the same, we shared the same friends, experienced the same socializing factors, etc. If I were to believe that homosexuality is entirely down to the way you were raised, this would baffle me. I guess I was just born with a higher likelihood of becoming gay.
 
Check this out.

My parents good friends cant have children so they adopted a baby boy 13 years ago. He was about a year or so when they got him, maybe less. Picture your typical afrikaaner couple: Rugby, braai, beerboep the works. Anyway, from as soon as this kid could walk and talk he was attracted to feminine things. dresses, high heels,dolls, make up. The dad would get him boys toys etc. but the little guy just wasn't that way inclined. Even the way he speaks, even as a young kid, its so feminine. The parents have accepted that they probably have a gay son though at this stage of his life he is not showing an over attraction to either boys or girls.

Its just interesting to see a young boy behave this way, the way he was born. Whatever sexual orientation he turns out to be wont change the fact that he is a flippin awesome kid who will grow up to be a flippin awesome man.
 
bradbear117 said:
Check this out.

My parents good friends cant have children so they adopted a baby boy 13 years ago. He was about a year or so when they got him, maybe less. Picture your typical afrikaaner couple: Rugby, braai, beerboep the works. Anyway, from as soon as this kid could walk and talk he was attracted to feminine things. dresses, high heels,dolls, make up. The dad would get him boys toys etc. but the little guy just wasn't that way inclined. Even the way he speaks, even as a young kid, its so feminine. The parents have accepted that they probably have a gay son though at this stage of his life he is not showing an over attraction to either boys or girls.

Its just interesting to see a young boy behave this way, the way he was born. Whatever sexual orientation he turns out to be wont change the fact that he is a flippin awesome kid who will grow up to be a flippin awesome man.
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Hmm a tricky thing but I think if your kid likes dolls etc... then let him like dolls. The gender assignment of toys and colours is part of a big problem with society. Also I wouldn't think he's gay just because he likes dolls, and make up etc.

When I was growing up, my room was pink, and to this day I love Hello Kitty, that doesn't change anything regarding my sexual preferences. The fact that things like toys and colours are considered 'female' or 'male' is very sad.
 
Pooky said:
Hmm a tricky thing but I think if your kid likes dolls etc... then let him like dolls. The gender assignment of toys and colours is part of a big problem with society. Also I wouldn't think he's gay just because he likes dolls, and make up etc.

When I was growing up, my room was pink, and to this day I love Hello Kitty, that doesn't change anything regarding my sexual preferences. The fact that things like toys and colours are considered 'female' or 'male' is very sad.
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Yea role play is also a learning factor in most young peoples lives, I can't and never will see a correlation that dressing up as a woman is a sign that someone is homosexually inclined.

We all played with "dolls" anyway! GI Joe, He-Man, Action figures are called dolls as well.
 
Pooky said:
Hmm a tricky thing but I think if your kid likes dolls etc... then let him like dolls. The gender assignment of toys and colours is part of a big problem with society. Also I wouldn't think he's gay just because he likes dolls, and make up etc.

When I was growing up, my room was pink, and to this day I love Hello Kitty, that doesn't change anything regarding my sexual preferences. The fact that things like toys and colours are considered 'female' or 'male' is very sad.
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Dude my sisters barbies were either the bad guys or a super hero and I collected puppy in your pocket toys but shhh "whistling:
 
Pooky said:
Hmm a tricky thing but I think if your kid likes dolls etc... then let him like dolls. The gender assignment of toys and colours is part of a big problem with society. Also I wouldn't think he's gay just because he likes dolls, and make up etc.
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Time will tell.

Pooky said:
When I was growing up, my room was pink, and to this day I love Hello Kitty, that doesn't change anything regarding my sexual preferences. The fact that things like toys and colours are considered 'female' or 'male' is very sad.
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Are you male or female?
 
Think of it like preferring either vanilla or chocolate ice-cream.

Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate, some people like both equally, some people like vanilla with a little bit of chocolate on the side, some people like to mix together chocolate with a little bit of vanilla, some people might like chocolate one day, and then the next day feel like a little bit of vanilla.

When I am offered vanilla or chocolate ice-cream I don't think to myself 'I WILL NOW CHOOSE VANILLA BECAUSE REASONS...', I go 'hmmmmm I feel as if I will enjoy chocolate more than vanilla', 'CHOCOLATE PLEASE!'.


yeah.
 
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