Demasculinized game characters

[dampi256]

I'm playing Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance and enjoying the slashing, killing and general nijaing around like a badd@ss very much.

But there is one thing irking me to no end about this game. Raiden's shoes. It looks like he has high heels on. Here's a few pics so you can decide if I'm imagining things or not.





I look at the shoes of the villains in the game and most have normal manly low heel shoes like Samuel Rodriguez, Sundowner, etc. with the exception of this lady, Monsoon. Even the other female character has dude shoes on.



Then there's the issue I have with this one really cool fighting move he does while in mid air where he attaches his sword to the heel of one of his shoes and then dices the opponent up. Highly effective yet it reminds me of a move Bayonetta would do.





With all of this said, I am feeling as if the character of Raiden, the main protagonist, is in some subtle way being portrayed more as female than male even though he sounds like a man yet has feminine facial features. I have absolutely no problem with a female character in a game, case in point Lara in the latest Raider game which was absolutely brilliat, but what I do have an issue with is when developers create a male character and demasculinizes the character by adding female features and characteristics to it.

This irks me and I see it in many real world applications like e.g in fashion commercials where the male model looks more like a women than a man.

This can go on and on but I just wanted to get this off my chest and get some of your opinions and ideas on this.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Raiden is SEXY!

And so is Dante!

And Jin Kazama!

And, long-time favourite, Raziel!

And, of course, there was also the Kruxena race from Requiem: Bloodymare... The guys basically had stilettos grafted to their legs (although difficult to find a pic on Google)...

If it isn't clear enough to you yet, some people like it, some people don't.

If that's Raiden's look then so what? He's bringing high-heels back

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Oh, and that's before I even start a debate about "gender" normative nonsense where women and men are "expected" to look/behave/dress a certain way.

Says who? Let people be people.

The only folks I've ever seen have an issue with things like this are people who feel insecure about themselves and their place in the world.

 

[Clive Woofer]

Oh, and that's before I even start a debate about "gender" normative nonsense where women and men are "expected" to look/behave/dress a certain way.

I think this really cuts to the heart of it. If someone is really bothered because some people and/or characters don't adhere to gender roles such as 'men should look/act like men' and 'women should look/act like women,' then my best advice would be to buy a time machine and travel back to 1950, when such arbitrary gender stereotypes were still relevant.

I don't really know what else to say. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions, but it sounds to me like much ado about nothing.

 

[Duke Dude]

The only folks I've ever seen have an issue with things like this are people who feel insecure about themselves and their place in the world.

I agree with you except for this part, I think this is an extreme generalization.

My best friend is homophobic and does not like nor care for homosexuals or heterosexuals, yet he is very comfortable with his gender and sexuality. Now whether you think he's a nice person or not is irrelevant, I've known other stereotypical "manly men" that feel the same way.

I believe in clearly defined gender roles, please note - not stereotypical. Women can be strong and independent and men can be in touch with their feelings and enjoy chick flicks .
But I do believe that a man should come across in a masculine manner and vice versa for women. When I look at someone I don't think there should be room to debate over whether or not that person is male or female.

This is a big can of worms though, and I don't think this will end well lol.

 

[HavocXphere]

If a guy in heels rattles you then you might want to do some serious soul searching...

 

[Snoek]

lol forget the fact that heels are primarily women's shoes, those are really impractical. You can't be stealthy in heels, they make that clak clak clak sound when you walk.

Now if a man desires to wear heels, that is his business. My opinion on the matter is moot. But practically those don't make sense.

Secondly I'd like to point out a major point in that all the characters mentioned by Lycan happen to be from japanese franchises. A country that has of late have the most attractive men be effeminate men (google japanese guys and find out for yourself.). A trend that's actualyl finding it's way into Western cuture as well (bieber, 1D etc). It's not a trend you can stop because it's being run by teenage girls and it's gonna continue until teenage girls decide they want mandingo men again.....

 

[dampi256]

I agree with you except for this part, I think this is an extreme generalization.

My best friend is homophobic and does not like nor care for homosexuals or heterosexuals, yet he is very comfortable with his gender and sexuality. Now whether you think he's a nice person or not is irrelevant, I've known other stereotypical "manly men" that feel the same way.

I believe in clearly defined gender roles, please note - not stereotypical. Women can be strong and independent and men can be in touch with their feelings and enjoy chick flicks .
But I do believe that a man should come across in a masculine manner and vice versa for women. When I look at someone I don't think there should be room to debate over whether or not that person is male or female.

This is a big can of worms though, and I don't think this will end well lol.

I agree. And yes, this will not end well at all.

Each unto his/her own. I find that individuals on doth end of the spectrum has valid points and they will attack your gender orientation and/or phobias re said gender orientation.

I believe in clearly defined gender roles, please note - not stereotypical. Women can be strong and independent and men can be in touch with their feelings and enjoy chick flicks .

I strongly agree with your point here. Wanting to define gender roles does not mean that one want to suppress other people's gender orientation at all.

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lol forget the fact that heels are primarily women's shoes, those are really impractical. You can't be stealthy in heels, they make that clak clak clak sound when you walk.

Now if a man desires to wear heels, that is his business. My opinion on the matter is moot. But practically those don't make sense.

Secondly I'd like to point out a major point in that all the characters mentioned by Lycan happen to be from japanese franchises. A country that has of late have the most attractive men be effeminate men (google japanese guys and find out for yourself.). A trend that's actualyl finding it's way into Western cuture as well (bieber, 1D etc). It's not a trend you can stop because it's being run by teenage girls and it's gonna continue until teenage girls decide they want mandingo men again.....

I guess I should have added in my piece above that I see this trend in most all of the Japanese anime, manga and other media. Some of these men look like girls and it is freaky.

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Raiden is SEXY!


And so is Dante!


And Jin Kazama!


And, long-time favourite, Raziel!


And, of course, there was also the Kruxena race from Requiem: Bloodymare... The guys basically had stilettos grafted to their legs (although difficult to find a pic on Google)...

If it isn't clear enough to you yet, some people like it, some people don't.

If that's Raiden's look then so what? He's bringing high-heels back

Oh, and that's before I even start a debate about "gender" normative nonsense where women and men are "expected" to look/behave/dress a certain way.

Says who? Let people be people.

The only folks I've ever seen have an issue with things like this are people who feel insecure about themselves and their place in the world.

Good point and yes, you get a minority that will slate others for their personal gender orientation and choice of clothing and such and yes, these same men/women will have personal issues with their own gender orientation "struggles" that they are projecting on others in an attempt to hide/stay ignorant of their issue, but this is an observation made about a trend that I personally find troubling.

If this makes me homophobic or "insecure" then so be it. I expect those with a different view will most definitely label me and others in this way and again, that is fine as we live in a multi-cultural society that has many different kinds of people in it. If the day comes when we cannot voice out opinion in an open forum without fear of retaliation or attack because of our views and constructive debate is not possible, then we have hit rock bottom.

This is a contentious subject and I know it will most probably not end in a few happy posts but it is a subject that others struggle with.

I still believe dudes were not made to ware high heels. You can break your poor ankles.

 

[Ike_009]

Dude, man up and grow a pair. If Fred wants to wear a dress and heels, let him. If Kate wants to smoke a pipe and build a house then that's her thing, but don't say what men and woman can't do because of what's between their legs (or lack of )

 

[Lyt]

/snip

Erm, raiden doesn't have shoes. It's a part of his cyborg body. And those heels are there for a reason - remember when he lost both his arms in mgs 4? Those 'heels' are used as a grip for his sword, so if he loses his arms again (inevitable) he won't have wield his sword with his mouth.

 

[dampi256]

Erm, raiden doesn't have shoes. It's a part of his cyborg body. And those heels are there for a reason - remember when he lost both his arms in mgs 4? Those 'heels' are used as a grip for his sword, so if he loses his arms again (inevitable) he won't have wield his sword with his mouth.

YEah, I figured that much. Yes. And he does loose his arm again by the way and get built up again.

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Dude, man up and grow a pair. If Fred wants to wear a dress and heels, let him. If Kate wants to smoke a pipe and build a house then that's her thing, but don't say what men and woman can't do because of what's between their legs (or lack of )

If you've noticed from what I wrote, I never said that women should not do stuff that men do or that men cannot do stuff women do. I am referring to the overall gender reversal I am observing in society. I am not saying what people should and should not do what they feel like 'caus that is just stupid and dictatorial. It is just something that irks me personally just as my issues might irk you and many others. It's good to hear from both sides and try and understand.

 

[Ike_009]

Well if its something that irks you personally then why air it out here, where you looking for support? Plus I haven't really noticed any "overall gender reversal" in society, I've seen a few singular incidents but nothing general.

Gender issues aren't always a friendly topic on the Internet. Personally I feel we should keep our little irks to ourself unless one is willing to have knifes thrown in ones direction.

 

[Duke Dude]

Well if its something that irks you personally then why air it out here, where you looking for support? Plus I haven't really noticed any "overall gender reversal" in society, I've seen a few singular incidents but nothing general.

Gender issues aren't always a friendly topic on the Internet. Personally I feel we should keep our little irks to ourself unless one is willing to have knifes thrown in ones direction.

I think what the OP is trying to say is that gender roles are being blurred in society and now he's noticing the same trend in video games. It's related to gaming and therefore can be voiced here.

When you reply with "grow a pair" then that's not approaching this topic in a mature manner and is asking for more immature replies.

If you don't think topics like this shouldn't be brought up on a public forum then no one is asking you to reply .

 

[Ike_009]

And gender roles in society being blurred in society is a problem because? I thought we as society are striving to recognize the individual and not to place people into boxes based on sex, race, wealth and status or is discrimination ok at certain levels? However to draw lines based on gender roles is fairly sexist in my opinion and I'm not a fan of sexism.

I believed society was evolving and with that gender roles are being blurred as people strive for equality as we as society matures. Therefore I see nothing wrong with that same evolution taking place in gaming, unless games have to be about sexualized woman and manly men of yesteryear.

Happy?

 

[Edelweiss]

I think you mean the feminisation of characters.. Demasculation is necessary because in my opinion they make characters more believable and something you could possibly empathize with.. Overly masculine characters are so "outdated" and stereotypical in the sense that they are so masculine it's unreal. Look at marcus fenix and duke nukem and compare them to let's say... Gordon freeman?
To me Gordon is more believable..
As for dem heels man... lol maybe it's just the aesthetics of that particular game? The paradigm shift of demasculinisation happened long ago circa 1990's. Shit's just getting more feminine lol. At least in games from Japan.. because, Japan.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I agree with you except for this part, I think this is an extreme generalization.

My best friend is homophobic and does not like nor care for homosexuals or heterosexuals, yet he is very comfortable with his gender and sexuality. Now whether you think he's a nice person or not is irrelevant, I've known other stereotypical "manly men" that feel the same way.

I wasn't trying to imply an insecurity about secretly being afraid that they're gay deep inside, I was implying that they, themselves, are afraid of no longer being relevant in the world. In other words, that women may well find more "feminine" men more attractive than ye olde hairy boep, bleskop and furry back.

It hints at a legitimate fear everyone experiences to some degree: the dread that modern clothes, music, technology, etc will at some point surpass our ability to "keep up" and that our generation, our time in the world will pass from memory and be replaced.

I believe in clearly defined gender roles, please note - not stereotypical. Women can be strong and independent and men can be in touch with their feelings and enjoy chick flicks .
But I do believe that a man should come across in a masculine manner and vice versa for women. When I look at someone I don't think there should be room to debate over whether or not that person is male or female.

This is a big can of worms though, and I don't think this will end well lol.

As for this, I can only agree with your last sentence. There's no point getting into that kind of debate for any reason than to have a confrontation. People should feel free to be, dress, act and behave in whatever manner makes them happy. We all live once, how dare you or anyone else tell someone how they may live their lives or "act" just to please YOU?

Not a world I'd like to live in, thanks.

If this makes me homophobic or "insecure" then so be it. I expect those with a different view will most definitely label me and others in this way and again, that is fine as we live in a multi-cultural society that has many different kinds of people in it. If the day comes when we cannot voice out opinion in an open forum without fear of retaliation or attack because of our views and constructive debate is not possible, then we have hit rock bottom.

Regarding Raiden, specifically, he's an androgynous character. I, personally, like that, if for no other reason than because it gets people to have precisely these kinds of discussions. Granted, I have a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone seems to take offence at that. I figure if you don't like it, don't play it.

You argument boils down to trying to make people, characters, media, etc conform to the way you want to perceive the world. Why? The very foundation of that argument is broken: people are different, developers, artists, writers, whatever all have different perspectives. To try and argue that it "shouldn't be that way" and that "there's something wrong with media/people/whatever" is incredibly self-righteous and borderline Nazism.

This is a contentious subject and I know it will most probably not end in a few happy posts but it is a subject that others struggle with.

Sure, here's a solution to a functional multi-culti society: ignore it. That's the trick to getting along well with everyone and everything. Don't like something about them? Ignore it and move on.

If something promotes hate-speech, intolerance and harm, speak up against it. (P.S. Simply causing "offence" isn't harm and is no excuse for censorship).

I still believe dudes were not made to ware high heels. You can break your poor ankles.

Hell, I think most dudes would break the damn shoe long before they break their ankles

 

[Wlad]

My best friend is homophobic and does not like nor care for homosexuals or heterosexuals

I don't wanna quote you out of context, but I read your post earlier and it's been bothering me the whole day.

When you say your friend does not like homosexuals or heterosexuals you are implying that he/she is a misanthrope and not homophobic. Heterosexual means straight, like most of us (generalisation, I know) . Not sure if you know this, but I just felt I had to correct you.

Please ignore my post if your friend is in fact not heterosexual and he/she can't stand hetero- or homosexual people.

As far as the whole gender topic is concerned I don't really want to get involved, but I'm inclined to agree with Lycanthrope. It's your life and you can choose to live it how you want, not how society wants you to live it. You can date who you want (regardless of gender), and dress in whichever way you want. It's nobody else's business how you want to live your life.

 

[Edelweiss]

I don't wanna quote you out of context, but I read your post earlier and it's been bothering me the whole day.

When you say your friend does not like homosexuals or heterosexuals you are implying that he/she is a misanthrope and not homophobic. Heterosexual means straight, like most of us (generalisation, I know) . Not sure if you know this, but I just felt I had to correct you.

Please ignore my post if your friend is in fact not heterosexual and he/she can't stand hetero- or homosexual people.

As far as the whole gender topic is concerned I don't really want to get involved, but I'm inclined to agree with Lycanthrope. It's your life and you can choose to live it how you want, not how society wants you to live it. You can date who you want (regardless of gender), and dress in whichever way you want. It's nobody else's business how you want to live your life.

Lol I've noticed that too but why did you have to sully a post that took so much effort and thought?

 

[Wlad]

Lol I've noticed that too but why did you have to sully a post that took so much effort and thought?

Haha, I couldn't help it. From reading the other posts it didn't look like anyone noticed so I thought I might as well point it out.

 

[Ike_009]

Haha, I couldn't help it. From reading the other posts it didn't look like anyone noticed so I thought I might as well point it out.

Sorry, I was trying to give my opinion on the sexism and not the forever alone person but we can talk about that I guess

 

[Duke Dude]

I don't wanna quote you out of context, but I read your post earlier and it's been bothering me the whole day.

When you say your friend does not like homosexuals or heterosexuals you are implying that he/she is a misanthrope and not homophobic. Heterosexual means straight, like most of us (generalisation, I know) . Not sure if you know this, but I just felt I had to correct you.

Please ignore my post if your friend is in fact not heterosexual and he/she can't stand hetero- or homosexual people.

The end of this post is true . He just really does not like hetero/homosexual people.

I might have used hetero wrong though by mistake, what I mean by that is a straight male that acts more feminine. So forgive me If I'm butchering heterosexual .