Batman vs Superman

Superman is an entirely unrelatable character.

Bear with me for a moment....

I remember watching Man of Steel and, during the fight scenes, wondering just how much I was supposed to care and why. A punch from one super being hitting another super being seems to leave no lasting damage whatsoever as far as anyone can tell, so how am I supposed to know what to feel when Superman gets hit? How does a punch from "Evil Superman" affect Superman, if at all? Am I supposed to feel tension? There isn't any, because I don't feel like he's in danger, or if he is, I can't really tell, and because of that, I don't care. You never get the sense that either character is winning at any stage of the fight, except at the very end when Superman suddenly decides to forego the "punch-each-other-over-and-over-again-repeatedly-to-no-effect" strategy in favor of the inexplicably and immeasurably more effective "break-the-guy's-neck-instead" strategy.

The only way to make Superman relatable is to introduce kryptonite, which effectively makes him human. Surprise, surprise!

I don't mean to take a steaming dump on this thread, it's just that I find stuff like this ridiculous. Superman was originally created as escapist fantasy, and would literally receive whatever power he needed in whatever new issue came out, to combat whatever threat appeared. If I recall correctly, one of the creators was once quoted as saying something along the lines of "Superman is as strong as he needs to be", which basically means he's unbeatable, because as a means of escapism for young kids in the 40's and on, he had to be.

So then stuff like "x vs. Superman" crops up, and invariably, kryptonite is introduced to the equation in some way (but what if Batman had a kryptonite ring! etc.), at which point you might as well just set up whatever scenario you like, in favor of whichever character you prefer.

My point is simply that Superman is supposed to win, because he's Superman, and that, in a nutshell, is why I don't care.

"whistling:
 
[MENTION=16728]Kimitar[/MENTION]

Pfft Superman's biggest enemy is Lex Luthor. Lex doesn't have any superpowers, he has a lot of money. Same goes for Batman. But Batman has something else too... He is Batman! I feel bad for poor Superman.

And I can completely relate to Superman. There are lots of times when I want to punch someone in the throat but I don't. :)

Oh and Batman has beaten Superman a couple of times now:
http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/6-ways-batman-has-beaten-superman

Beating someone doesn't always require violence. :)
 
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Im waiting for the argument to start , 3 pages and i'm surprised, i'm just going to leave this here.

 
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Superman is an entirely unrelatable character.

Bear with me for a moment....

I remember watching Man of Steel and, during the fight scenes, wondering just how much I was supposed to care and why. A punch from one super being hitting another super being seems to leave no lasting damage whatsoever as far as anyone can tell, so how am I supposed to know what to feel when Superman gets hit? How does a punch from "Evil Superman" affect Superman, if at all? Am I supposed to feel tension? There isn't any, because I don't feel like he's in danger, or if he is, I can't really tell, and because of that, I don't care. You never get the sense that either character is winning at any stage of the fight, except at the very end when Superman suddenly decides to forego the "punch-each-other-over-and-over-again-repeatedly-to-no-effect" strategy in favor of the inexplicably and immeasurably more effective "break-the-guy's-neck-instead" strategy.

The only way to make Superman relatable is to introduce kryptonite, which effectively makes him human. Surprise, surprise!

I don't mean to take a steaming dump on this thread, it's just that I find stuff like this ridiculous. Superman was originally created as escapist fantasy, and would literally receive whatever power he needed in whatever new issue came out, to combat whatever threat appeared. If I recall correctly, one of the creators was once quoted as saying something along the lines of "Superman is as strong as he needs to be", which basically means he's unbeatable, because as a means of escapism for young kids in the 40's and on, he had to be.

So then stuff like "x vs. Superman" crops up, and invariably, kryptonite is introduced to the equation in some way (but what if Batman had a kryptonite ring! etc.), at which point you might as well just set up whatever scenario you like, in favor of whichever character you prefer.

My point is simply that Superman is supposed to win, because he's Superman, and that, in a nutshell, is why I don't care.

"whistling:
I understand you point and it is a good one. Basically, what Superman stands for is what creators are trying to make resonate with audiences, instead of what he can do. I think perhaps that movie missed the point a bit... I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would.

[MENTION=16728]Kimitar[/MENTION]

And I can completely relate to Superman. There are lots of times when I want to punch someone in the throat but I don't. :)

Beating someone doesn't always require violence. :)

This little gem from your comments explains exactly what I believe Superman stands for. Kudos, you get it.

I think [MENTION=8104]Saint_Dee[/MENTION] can weigh in on this as well. He has a lot of Superman knowledge (2nd to me, of course [emoji14] ).
 
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Who here has seen the cartoon of Batman - Dark Knight returns Part 1 and Part 2. It seems the movie is based of that. I do feel they reaching a bit the movie seems like Superman snapped and has this whole legion of "red capes" so not sure I'm to excited to see the movie.
 
Who here has seen the cartoon of Batman - Dark Knight returns Part 1 and Part 2. It seems the movie is based of that. I do feel they reaching a bit the movie seems like Superman snapped and has this whole legion of "red capes" so not sure I'm to excited to see the movie.
[MENTION=22338]Bakersman[/MENTION]

That's entirely different from the vibe I got. To me, it instead seems like in the grand scheme of things, this movies plays off from the beats of Man of Steel, and there are questions that have to be asked of Superman, since the destruction of Metropolis and by extension a part of Gotham since it seems in this Universe, Gotham and Metropolis are sister cities like Central City and Starling City. Among the destruction and collateral damage of Zod vs. Superman, is a Wayne Industries building. That is in part the reason why Batman is set against Superman, and then on the flipside Clark Kent researches Batman as he now realizes might be more heroes than him. The Red Capes seems like something they loosely took from Injustice: Gods Among Us in the sense that these are Superman fanatics who commit crimes (or righteous acts in their eyes) in the name of Superman and they might be manipulated by Lex Luthor to create the Superman is bad narrative. The scene with Ma Kent also does a good job of showing that Supes isn't the bad guy in the movie, and that wires are being crossed by both Bats and Supes (also established by the scene where Alfred stated "He is not our enemy.")

Overall, I'm super excited after seeing this trailer in particular, because the conflict actually feels organic and there's a lot of setup for other things within the universe. The overall plan is starting to take shape even looking back at Man of Steel. My only gripe is the lack of dialogue from Gal Gadot's Diana Prince/Wonder Woman. This Lex Luthor seems like a very unique interpretation which I'm keen to see, so I don't mind him yet (as long as he's nothing like Gene Hackman or Kevin Spacey's real estate Lex, it's all good).

I'd like to hear what [MENTION=4613]TheAvenged87[/MENTION] thinks
 
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[MENTION=8104]Saint_Dee[/MENTION], Do you not think that the movie get overly complicated with the Batman VS Superman hype now that Wonder Women is in the mix along with Lex and you have the red capes and the government. Batman by the looks of the trailer seems "old" so this is definitely not his first rodeo and if Gotham and Metropolis are close to one anther, why would Clark not have known about Batman in the first movie and just fly over and say Hi i'm superman how did you handle coming out the "cave" as a super hero and how did you handle everyone wanting to get justice for what you do, oh and by the way I also have a no kill policy.

Marvel has done good with their whole universe and side shows like Daredevil all tied in with the Avengers movie as the big catalyst for everything. I hope DC don't try and one up them and in the process screwing it up.
 
[MENTION=8104]Saint_Dee[/MENTION], Do you not think that the movie get overly complicated with the Batman VS Superman hype now that Wonder Women is in the mix along with Lex and you have the red capes and the government. Batman by the looks of the trailer seems "old" so this is definitely not his first rodeo and if Gotham and Metropolis are close to one anther, why would Clark not have known about Batman in the first movie and just fly over and say Hi i'm superman how did you handle coming out the "cave" as a super hero and how did you handle everyone wanting to get justice for what you do, oh and by the way I also have a no kill policy.

Marvel has done good with their whole universe and side shows like Daredevil all tied in with the Avengers movie as the big catalyst for everything. I hope DC don't try and one up them and in the process screwing it up.
[MENTION=22338]Bakersman[/MENTION], I think the plotlines can be managed into a coherent and good story (of course, I will worry if the Doomsday rumor has any credence), look at how many things were being juggled in X-Men: Days of Future Past.

You have to remember what the stakes were in the previous movie, along with the rapid escalation. That was Supes first rodeo as a superhero out in the open with the world literally at stake, and before that Batman had hung his cape for good (possibly due to Jason Todd's/Robin's death?), so it's safe to assume they wouldn't have crossed paths because Superman wasn't even a public hero per se, he was just helping in the moment where he was.

I do love the Marvel universe, but I love what DC is doing as well. I'll say this every single time, the Marvel way of doing things is a great way, but it doesn't have to be the only way (I've had a inkling of DC's plan ). I actually love the fact that DC's TV Shows aren't connected to their Cinematic Universe. Why? Well, for one it allows the Showrunners infinitely more room to reinvent things and innovate in terms of creativity without the shackles of being connected to to a larger universe and having to potentially pander (not that Marvel panders, but you can see that the shows, to an extent are constricted by the cinematic universe, especially in Agents of SHIELD's case, I haven't seen Daredevil yet and I hear good things). Even more than the unshackled creativity is the possibility different iterations of these characters. Already we're going to see two different iterations of Barry Allen/The Flash, we're getting Supergirl, Arrow has been a hit, we might be getting a Young Justice like show, etc. It's just like in the comics, different writers would always reinvent these characters, and we'd see different tales as a result, and even completely different versions of the characters we love, it's exciting to be honest. Marvel and DC do this so many times in the comics, reinventing characters, creating multiverses that lend to seeing different versions of these characters (Read Spider-Verse, it's amazing, and it's got all the Spiders:D). What this approach does for DC is, while being disconnected from each other, the TV universe and Cinematic universe might eventually come together in an Infinite Crisis type event (might not excite most people), to reboot and start it all for s different generation of fans.

So yeah, I'm not worried about the most faithful of comic book adaptations, in fact the prospect of entirely new tales that take inspiration from the comics excites me :D... I got a bit carried away there :o
 
All and all it is great time to have this comic based eye candy. I love both DC and Marvel and would like a small cameo or spoof of Lobo like they did with the duck at the of Guardians of the Galaxy.

After everything is said and done Superman and Batman will most likely be friends/co-workers after everything....Justice League and all.
 
I have read a lot of Vs. style comics such as Batman vs Predator, Hulk vs Thing, Spiderman vs Wolverine etc. etc. and the stories always go like this:

The two heroes have 3 battles: 1st battle: Batman man wins but Predator narrowly escapes
2nd battle: Predator wins but Batman narrowly escapes
3rd battle: they find a common enemy/enemies put aside their differences and battle together for the greater good.

the end.

So I expect to see a trilogy and everyone respecting each others life choices.

Remember......they tread a fine line of fanboys here and they have to make both camps happy. *Spoiler* Bruce definitely has to use Kryptonite on Clarkey boy otherwise no contest, Supes would murder him.
 
Who here has seen the cartoon of Batman - Dark Knight returns Part 1 and Part 2. It seems the movie is based of that. I do feel they reaching a bit the movie seems like Superman snapped and has this whole legion of "red capes" so not sure I'm to excited to see the movie.

Close - It draws on the elements of the comic book series "The Dark Knight Returns" by Frank Miller, which the animated movie is based on. It definitely draws a lot from that book, since it is the most famous and favourite Batman vs Superman story of all time. Superman looks quite in charge of what he has been doing and has taken a more 'involved' role with the Government, seeing that he is basically addressing their concerns over what has happened. This is also sort of taken from that book.

Some more spewing from me, courtesy of [MENTION=8104]Saint_Dee[/MENTION]

This trailer has made me feel more comfortable with the movie than I was a month ago. I didn't really understand what they were doing and why...but I feel better now.

Batman does seem older, which is close to the picture that I've always had about him. Also, this is a major plot line of DKR, where Batman has taken a long break from being the Batman, although he is considerably younger here.

The red capes are similar to Red Son and Injustice, but may also be a nod to the gang that is prevalent in DKR, that basically just serves whoever is the most god-like person of the week. Back in the day, Superman had his own robot Superman army force and also had a group of human followers called the Supermen of America. The link is a little ambiguous, as there have been many incarnations that were named the Superman of America, but this is pretty much the best description "The Supermen of America: A team of youths inspired by Superman initially funded by LexCorp to protect Metropolis."

As for the supporting characters, I am okay with the not stealing the spotlight (it appears) and letting Batman and Superman have a go at each other. Serving as an introduction for the other characters, I think smaller roles are fine.

- - - - - - - - - - Double Post Merged - - - - - - - - - -

I have read a lot of Vs. style comics such as Batman vs Predator, Hulk vs Thing, Spiderman vs Wolverine etc. etc. and the stories always go like this:

The two heroes have 3 battles: 1st battle: Batman man wins but Predator narrowly escapes
2nd battle: Predator wins but Batman narrowly escapes
3rd battle: they find a common enemy/enemies put aside their differences and battle together for the greater good.

the end.

So I expect to see a trilogy and everyone respecting each others life choices.

Remember......they tread a fine line of fanboys here and they have to make both camps happy. *Spoiler* Bruce definitely has to use Kryptonite on Clarkey boy otherwise no contest, Supes would murder him.

Pretty much what I expect, to be honest.
 
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