Dohc-WP
Ron Burgundy
im still using my replacement elite (Mi digital swapped) console from 2008 (Falcon phat model) my original launch one died back in early 2008
Blocking used games on next-gen consoles would be awesome, says Crytek
- Thread starter James
- Start date
im still using my replacement elite (Mi digital swapped) console from 2008 (Falcon phat model) my original launch one died back in early 2008
Strifehart
New member
About 10 oldish (2 years +) titles and I bought 2 new copies of Soul Calibur V and had some credit left. I wasn't going to play the games again and they would just have sat on my shelf collecting dust.
There's a definite problem in the way the second hand market gets milked by retailers, I agree with that. The way that customers are coerced into buying 2nd hand games, rather than choosing to buy 2nd hand due to financial reasons.
The point I'm trying to make is that if a first time buyer is dependant on getting a 50+% rebate on selling a new game immediately after finishing it (i.e. say 2 weeks after release, if the local PS3 forum is anything to go by), then it's going to take that individual twice the amount of time to afford a new title in the future if the 2nd hand market is killed.
Likewise if a 2nd hand buyer could only afford to spend R300-R400 on a newish title, it's going to take them between 2 and 1.5 times as long long to buy a new game.
Granted the second instance will probably loosely offset the potential loss in sales of the first instance, but it's not a guarantee. The 2nd hand buyer might not deem a product worth R600 and stop buying games altogether. The might be driven to piracy, which is a even worse outcome.
Either way, we're just speculating at this point. As it is when dealing with any other topic involving a number of variables and unknown factors. There's no way to accurately predict the outcome until it actually arises. Doesn't make debating the topic less interesting.
This point in the argument is a bit moot in my opinion, because like pirates, the developers would not have seen any money from those customers to begin with. Perhaps a very small fraction would "convert", but it would be the exception and not the rule.
I have an old HDMI Pro model (which I still tested Halo 2 on the other day) and I have a brand new 250gb slim, but I haven't tested it yet.
What really weirds me out is the idea that they're somehow entitled to a share of the secondary revenue? Unless it's contractually mandated, like in a football transfer, when in the history of the world has that been a thing?
Is Picasso's family still getting a cut of the sales of his work? Does the 2nd hand car dealer send the manufacturer a kickback when they sell the car. I've never sold anything to cash converters but do they give me a little something-something when they sell my used TV, or for that matter, should I be sending some cash back to Samsung when I sell it to them?
As far as I'm concerned, the studios & the console makers both, should get a massive back-hand from legislators, have their faces rubbed in some doo while regulators say "NO, Bad doggie."
Is Picasso's family still getting a cut of the sales of his work? Does the 2nd hand car dealer send the manufacturer a kickback when they sell the car. I've never sold anything to cash converters but do they give me a little something-something when they sell my used TV, or for that matter, should I be sending some cash back to Samsung when I sell it to them?
As far as I'm concerned, the studios & the console makers both, should get a massive back-hand from legislators, have their faces rubbed in some doo while regulators say "NO, Bad doggie."
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
I did a quick google, I see they still support some 207 titles but the xbox features on all Xbox v1 titles has been shutdown. Must be where the confusion slipped in.
That sounds about right. Before leaving for the UK i took about 10 - 15 of my older titles to BT games and traded it, got just over R1K credit for the lot. A week or two later I saw one of the very titles I traded (it had a tear in the cover plastic in a very specific place) going for double the amount they gave me credit for.
I feel that if the pre-owned market was a thing of the past title might drop in price alot faster, similar to DVDs. If recent game sales figures has shown me anything its that the number of people who can't buy a new title on release is a minority. Game after game after game has shattered its release sale expectations, some making more money than films. Those few who can't afford it on day one will just have to wait until the price drop. And the price does drop. On release in Feb Syndicate went for £40 on Amazon. Now, 2 months later you can get it for £24 on Amazon, a price that is often cheaper than what retailer is selling pre-owned. So that puts the whole "expensive games" argument out in the london rain. That SA doesn't have Amazon or a similar etailer with such awesome prices is unfortunately not my, or the developers problem
As a result of this I haven't bought a pre-own title in months for the simple reason that its sometimes cheaper just to get new copies off amazon and I dont have to worry about the pre-owned copy being scratched or the manuel or case damaged (im very picky when it comes to that.)
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OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
People don't have money?
Modern Warfare 3 made a billion dollars in the first weeks of its release.
Skyrim made $430 Million in the first 2 days.
Mass Effect 3 sold 890 000 units in the first 24 hours in the United States alone.
So yeah, people don't have money for the games. I think the real arguments should be "make the games cheaper so I can buy more".
I am perfectly fine with paying £40 for a new release & I can manage 2 or 3 new titles a month if there are enough decent titles coming out. Or one Collectors Edition.
Lets not get distracted here - I don't particularly care about Mac sales figures, I was merely making the comparison of the circle jerk the console industry is becoming which I feel is similar to the narrow mindedness of Apple who only greenlight certain software and hardware for use on their precious pieces of plastic. Lets not forget that while Sony may build the console with this vicious form of DRM, it is the game developers who prosper as they will get more units sold. Which is not particularly a bad thing if you work for a game developer, but pretty shit for people who want to play 5 or 6 different games in a month.
Oh but I can afford it. I just buy games I feel are worth my cash. Hell, I supported a WoW hobby for the last 6 years.
Like I said, it keeps the business afloat. How much profit do you think they make on the original from the developers? I am in contact with one of the computer retail suppliers in South Africa and able to get cost price on goods, including things like WoW game cards - let me tell you the difference is negligible compared to places like BT Games. And I am talking in the R20 to R50 category here. Why do you think some titles are in demand? Because they are awesome games that you can't get your hands on legally but you would STILL like to purchase.
Why would the initial purchase on the console be insanely price? And what has that got to do with pre-owned game sales
"The producers realise they have a monopoly on the games and jack up the prices...." WTF, JUST WTF! I cant respond to that because IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE.
I would not be surprised if these next gen consoles clock in at the R6000 mark - which is understandable for a launch price and all the tech goodness that is crammed in to it. And while it "makes no fucking sense" to you, just think about how game prices have gone up from R400 to R600 in the last few years. And now that they are planning to have you by the balls with no more second hand games, time to crank it up a bit more. Also, that nice R600 game you have just purchased? How's about you pay a little extra for some ON THE DISC DLC.
Yes yes, I know, it is a vicious circle of high prices spurring people to buy second hand which in turn diminishes sales which in turn makes the prices go up even higher etc, etc. Basic economics. What the other poster has mentioned is that they are trying to treat the effect and not the cause.
Graal
New member
This. Precisely, this. It doesn't matter if the videogaming industry is a separate industry, it still works on the same principles. If second hand sales are so bad for your company that it could kill it, maybe you should look into why that is, instead of getting angry at second hand sales. Maybe you should check why the game doesn't sell so well at release then and why people are willing to rather wait a few weeks to pick it up on the cheap.
Edit: And let's not be overly idealistic here. The gaming industry drop its prices if the second hand market falls away? Yeah, that's not going to happen in our lifetime.
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OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Well there's your problem.
Gaming is a hobby, it is not food or shelter or something else you have to have. Complaining that you can't afford 5 or 6 games a month is like complaining that you can't eat prime steak every night since the price of beef is too high.
Saint_Dee
The Phantom Poet
I did a quick google, I see they still support some 207 titles but the xbox features on all Xbox v1 titles has been shutdown. Must be where the confusion slipped in.
That sounds about right. Before leaving for the UK i took about 10 - 15 of my older titles to BT games and traded it, got just over R1K credit for the lot. A week or two later I saw one of the very titles I traded (it had a tear in the cover plastic in a very specific place) going for double the amount they gave me credit for.
I feel that if the pre-owned market was a thing of the past title might drop in price alot faster, similar to DVDs. If recent game sales figures has shown me anything its that the number of people who can't buy a new title on release is a minority. Game after game after game has shattered its release sale expectations, some making more money than films. Those few who can't afford it on day one will just have to wait until the price drop. And the price does drop. On release in Feb Syndicate went for £40 on Amazon. Now, 2 months later you can get it for £24 on Amazon, a price that is often cheaper than what retailer is selling pre-owned. So that puts the whole "expensive games" argument out in the london rain. That SA doesn't have Amazon or a similar etailer with such awesome prices is unfortunately not my, or the developers problem
...Don't start with that
Anyway, after after checking out a few prices on Amazon and the ilk (read: Just Amazon), I realize we may be geographically challenged...For example, Mass Effect 3 pre-played from BT Games costs R449 for both consoles (R535 new) whereas Amazon sells it for the equivalent of R326(US) and R288 (UK). It's possible if we had a similar setup here in SA that there wouldn't be a need for buying pre-owned games... Just something to consider
Note: I don't have a standpoint in this as I'm a PC gamer and I've never owned a console
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
I was speaking in general terms. Once again, for me it isn't about the money. I work hard everyday and therefore earn enough cash to afford that if I really wanted to. Fortunately for me, I am a wise consumer and make choices for what I buy on solid information first. Guild Wars 2 is shaping up to be awesome (27% complete on beta weekend download \o/) and it's the reason I purchased it as soon as it was available.
I don't even own a console but most of my friends do and they all gripe about prices. It's also the reason why I see regular customers purchasing dual layer writables in bulk - you know why? They make a business of selling those games to people who can't even afford 1 game a month. Unfortunately, here in South Africa everybody wants a piece of the pie and guess who ends up paying the full amount of that pie - the underpaid South African. I really don't blame people for purchasing second hand / pirating. I blame greedy corporates and the government (import tax is a bitch).
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
This argument get slightly more absurd with every post.
But you have now hit the nail on the head. The isn't about price, the issue is people will always take something free rather than pay for it. FACT. PC games aren't that expensive with most clocking in under R400 a title. Yet people still pirate it. Similarly dropping the price of console titles doesnt mean people will suddenly buy in droves (they actually already do), you will still have those that just want it fee. Blaming high prices for the basic lack of morals people exhibit by pirating a title rather than waiting for its price to drop is a weak argument at best.
So we come full circle. Again I say, If a person can't afford their gaming habit, find a new hobby, preferable one he/she/it can afford without feeling the need to steal the product.
Graal
New member
I don't know what world you live in, but R400 is still expensive for entertainment.
No matter which way you look at it, games are too expensive. There's no two ways around it. Cut those ridiculous prices down, then we can start talking piracy.
No amount of 'if you can't afford it, don't take part' ridiculous arguments is going to change that. 1, because the world doesn't work that way, and 2, because something which is overpriced cannot be overlooked and said 'don't like it, don't buy it'.
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OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
A world where I get paid in Pounds. A world where paying £40 for a form of entertainment I love is nothing.
If the hobby is too expensive find another other. Its obviously not a big issues, these expensive games, since game sales have taken a very small knock considering the state the economy is in. Some game companies have even shown profits. If the prices was really so out of whack wouldnt there be a more visible decline in sales?
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Graal
New member
So because YOU can afford to buy games at their current price, it isn't ridiculously overcharged?
Okay.
Shitty reasoning. People shouldn't complain about milk's price skyrocketing, because they don't need milk to survive. They can drink water. If you can't afford milk, get something else.
People shouldn't complain about petrol prices soaring, because there is ample public transport. They don't need to drive their own cars.
Okay.
Shitty reasoning. People shouldn't complain about milk's price skyrocketing, because they don't need milk to survive. They can drink water. If you can't afford milk, get something else.
People shouldn't complain about petrol prices soaring, because there is ample public transport. They don't need to drive their own cars.
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OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
I live in London, My wife studies and doesn't work so the monthly bills, phone (£100), Internet (£50), Groceries (£200), Transport (£280), comes out of my meager salary. I work a temp job. If I can afford at least 2 new game a month its not over priced.
I would go so far as to say that people who make good games make good profit.
Theres a reason why WoW has people coughing up monthly subs - it's because they have a good product (albeit after 6 years for me, a little boring and on its way out). I take a look at Guild Wars 2 where you pay once for the game and it looks fantastic. It challenges everything an MMO is "supposed" to be, takes the formula and tells it to piss off. Value for money. I can pretty much guarantee you that GW2 won't see a lot of piracy - because they have made their game so worth paying for. Something that might even knock the mighty WoW off it's perch. Don't get me wrong, I love Blizzard. But I feel that it's the beginning of the end for WoW.
Then I take a look at EA, Ubisoft and Activision whose production houses churn out craptactular games most of the time with flashy graphics and no substance. Worth R600? I think not. I take a look at most of the releases this year and you know what entertained me the most? Indie games. Small time developers who know what fun is. The guys with little to no financial backing, just passion. And it pleases me that people buy their games.
I am pretty sure most people don't even see it as stealing anymore. Which is a big problem for the developers. I also agree that lowering the price won't just make people start magically buying games. Not when they have been suckled on the free teet for such a long time now.
Theres a reason why WoW has people coughing up monthly subs - it's because they have a good product (albeit after 6 years for me, a little boring and on its way out). I take a look at Guild Wars 2 where you pay once for the game and it looks fantastic. It challenges everything an MMO is "supposed" to be, takes the formula and tells it to piss off. Value for money. I can pretty much guarantee you that GW2 won't see a lot of piracy - because they have made their game so worth paying for. Something that might even knock the mighty WoW off it's perch. Don't get me wrong, I love Blizzard. But I feel that it's the beginning of the end for WoW.
Then I take a look at EA, Ubisoft and Activision whose production houses churn out craptactular games most of the time with flashy graphics and no substance. Worth R600? I think not. I take a look at most of the releases this year and you know what entertained me the most? Indie games. Small time developers who know what fun is. The guys with little to no financial backing, just passion. And it pleases me that people buy their games.
I am pretty sure most people don't even see it as stealing anymore. Which is a big problem for the developers. I also agree that lowering the price won't just make people start magically buying games. Not when they have been suckled on the free teet for such a long time now.