Borderlands 2 dumbs-down for girls

And this is why we get bland as paste PR releases because people make an issue out of everything.

Stop crying wolf, this isn't sexism. He didn't say girls suck at games, he just gave the example of him trying to get his girlfriend to play Borderlands with him. It's about getting someone who doesn't play games, or fps games, to come play Borderlands.
 
MOnk said:
And this is why we get bland as paste PR releases because people make an issue out of everything.

Stop crying wolf, this isn't sexism. He didn't say girls suck at games, he just gave the example of him trying to get his girlfriend to play Borderlands with him. It's about getting someone who doesn't play games, or fps games, to come play Borderlands.
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"As a man, I totally think women are overreacting about the implication that they're shit at games."

What if the designer had called it the "homosexual mode" or the "black mode"? Both are also minority demographics in the game industry. Would you be okay with that too?
 
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Azimuth said:
"As a man, I totally think women are overreacting about the implication that they're shit at games."

What if the designer had called it the "homosexual mode" or the "black mode"? Both are also minority demographics in the game industry. Would you be okay with that too?
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Then Graal would be angry :p
 
Jeremy said:
Borderlands 2 Mechromancer’s “girlfriend mode” implies women suck at games

Best Friends Forever skill tree is for women who “can’t aim”
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It doesn't imply woman sucks in games, it just implies that gamer guys get stuck with non gamer girls most of the time...
and the only games they can play is the ones they can't stand. So introducing an ultra casual aspect to the game as an option alongside the primary core difficulty of the game isn't a bad idea.
 
Issue of "is this or is it not sexist" notwithstanding isn't such a feature inherently bad regardless of who it is intended for? Hear me out, the natural process is that you learn from struggling, so playing a game that at first you suck at drives you to be better at it. With a feature that negates the need for this "learning" when you finish playing you are going to be as useless as when you started?
 
Azimuth said:
"As a man, I totally think women are overreacting about the implication that they're shit at games."

What if the designer had called it the "homosexual mode" or the "black mode"? Both are also minority demographics in the game industry. Would you be okay with that too?
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Please step off.

He didn't say women are shit at games, goodness.

Most, but not all, people who play games like Borderlands are guys, some guys have girlfriends, and more often then not those girlfriends will not have played an fps game. That is NOT being sexist, that is just telling it like it is.

This is such a stupid argument it's beyond ridiculous, go moan about chick flicks or something and then I can complain when directors and critics tell people how they threw in some action scenes "for the guys" and say how morally offensive that is to my gender.

Plenty of real issue affecting women, a dude calling a skill tree in a game "girlfriend mode" is not one of them.
 
OmegaFenix said:
Issue of "is this or is it not sexist" notwithstanding isn't such a feature inherently bad regardless of who it is intended for? Hear me out, the natural process is that you learn from struggling, so playing a game that at first you suck at drives you to be better at it. With a feature that negates the need for this "learning" when you finish playing you are going to be as useless as when you started?
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I think you would have to see the full extent of what skills and what not are available before you can say something like that. Could be more like training wheels, when you get better you'll find better options to put your points into. Or maybe the skills are really good for someone who likes to a particular playstyle.

If it really is 'autopilot' mode then I would agree that is a silly thing to include but I somehow doubt that will be the case.
 
Once again, guys telling girls how they should feel about sexism.

Ah, the MyGaming forums.

This guy's comment was laden with sexism. No amount of apologistic straw-grabbing is going to change that. The end.
 
Please show me the sexism I would truly like to know? As far as I can see if he had called it 'significant other' mode everything would have been peachy?

LoL the internet being what it is has already forced Mr.Pitchford to give a PR. backrub and a gentle head pat.
 
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MOnk said:
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Please step off.
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It's a discussion forum. For discussion. I'm allowed to have an opinion.

He didn't say women are shit at games, goodness.
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No. But it's implied.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with including a beginner mode in a game, but call it a beginner mode.

Most, but not all, people who play games like Borderlands are guys, some guys have girlfriends, and more often then not those girlfriends will not have played an fps game. That is NOT being sexist, that is just telling it like it is.
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And, statistically, most - but not all - people who play games like Borderlands are white guys. Again, would it be okay to talk about a "black mode"? No, because even if it's "just telling it like it is", that would be fucking offensive. How is this hard to understand?

This is such a stupid argument it's beyond ridiculous, go moan about chick flicks or something and then I can complain when directors and critics tell people how they threw in some action scenes "for the guys" and say how morally offensive that is to my gender.
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This is a terrible analogy for plenty of reasons, but the simplest is that games are still being marketed exclusively to men, and that's a problem.

Plenty of real issue affecting women, a dude calling a skill tree in a game "girlfriend mode" is not one of them.
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It's part of the same institutionalised infantilisation of women that's so pervasive in our culture. Also, excuse me if I don't take a man's opinion on what exactly "real issues affecting women" very seriously. Everything about your comment oozes mansplaining.

It's easy to be dismissive of issues like sexism when they don't actually affect you personally, isn't it?
 
MOnk said:
I think you would have to see the full extent of what skills and what not are available before you can say something like that. Could be more like training wheels, when you get better you'll find better options to put your points into. Or maybe the skills are really good for someone who likes to a particular playstyle.

If it really is 'autopilot' mode then I would agree that is a silly thing to include but I somehow doubt that will be the case.
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So which one of us is going to try it and see if it is or isn't an 'autopilot' mode?

As for the topic of sexism:

First off we can all agree that there are real issues both in society in general and in game with Sexism, Racism etc. but, and its a big ass but, its fast become the latest "-ism" buzz word that is being thrown around, much like racism, anti-Semitism or anything else that lets people play the victim. Everybody is so afraid of these "isms" that we prance around on tip toes and end up trivialising the real issue. A Game set in Africa where the protagonist shoot & kills mainly black people isn't racist. A WWII documentary that doesn't feature a extended section on the Holocaust isn't anti-Semitic and some guy referring to a mode in a game as "girl friend mode" isn't sexist. (My Opinion & since I am neither black (because its only racist if your black), Jewish or a women or gay it is just that, my opinion.) Can we, as a society, focus on real cases where people are being unfairly discriminated against. Like women being denied an education, forced into arranged marriages or abused on some horse shit religious grounds or where homosexual people are denied such a basic right as to confess their love for their partner with marriage vows or where people are systematically pushed out of their homes, jobs and country based on the colour of their skin rather than pull out the torches and pitch forks every time someone says something that someone else doesn't like.

I would call it "Girl/Boyfriend Mode" because there are girls who's boyfriends suck at gaming.
 
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Graal said:
Why not just call it beginner mode right from the start? :confused:
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Do you work in an office? (I ask because I am not sure) I do, I work in a client driven retail environment & while I dont have to communicate directly with our clients I do respond to a lot of email queries that my Project Manager purifies before sending it on to the client. In our office we have a term for when we need to explain something very basic, like what we mean by {clientname}DDMMYYYY.xml, we call it "Going Full Retard". Non of us hold any kind of resentment for mentally challenged people we simply use the term or its acronym "GFR" to explain in easily understandable words how details the solution to a problem has to be.

Similarly the head designer referring to the mode, internally, as "GirlFriend Mode" shouldn't carry any connection to sexism. It simply helps convey an over all idea of what the mode should entail by using an established social stereotype, in this case that most guys who play Borderlands probably has a girlfriend who doesn't play games and will there for be crap at them.

"beginner mode" is reserved for official documentation or in game for inter office communication between members of a creative team it simply lacks the necessary "umph" to convey what the designer wanted.
 
Azimuth said:
It's a discussion forum. For discussion. I'm allowed to have an opinion.

It's part of the same institutionalised infantilisation of women that's so pervasive in our culture. Also, excuse me if I don't take a man's opinion on what exactly "real issues affecting women" very seriously. Everything about your comment oozes mansplaining.

It's easy to be dismissive of issues like sexism when they don't actually affect you personally, isn't it?
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To me you are the one being sexist. I have never once referred to your gender because it makes no difference to me, I would be having the same argument if it were Graal or Fenix taking your stance. Yet you keep referring to my gender and telling me that my opinion on the issue means nothing because I'm a man. Even your reference to mansplaining is sexist.

I am not having a discussion with 'women', my discussion is with you and the people in this thread. I am not the spokesperson for the male gender and you are not the spokesperson for the female gender. I am not telling women how to feel about a topic, I am saying that in my opinion the issues you have brought up in this article are petty and belittling to the plight of women.

If you think 'girlfriend mode' is on the same level as female genital mutilation, spousal abuse, sexual health issues or job equality then I guess I should just quit trying to apply logic, because you know I'm a man and can't possibly understand these things.
 
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