Casual Gamers End Boycott

[Azimuth]

epic read is epic awesome post, I sense Azimuth is an xbox gamer?

PC, Xbox, DS, PSP, Wii.

I like games. I don't like attitudes that claim one platform is better than any other, and deserves special treatment.

Elsewhere, Penny Arcade actually really did say this:

Everywhere the discussion takes hold, the conversation surrounding Infinity Ward's decision to forego dedicated servers is an absolute fuckfest. I understand why it would enrage that contingent. It's an aggressive assertion that the universe is not as they claim.

On Four Zero Two, Robert Bowling's clearing house for Infinity Ward PR, the thread quickly reached one hundred and nineteen pages. The petition at the core of the conversation, entitled "Dedicated Servers for CoD:MW2," has (at the time of this writing) reached 143,991 signatures.

To read such lamentations, you'd get the impression that PC gamers still think they are the focus of the industry, when that hasn't been true for awhile. Indeed, hardcore gamers in general - and the dedicated PC enthusiast, which is a subset - haven't been the object of their desire for some time. I was under the impression this was well known, but it does require a willingness to perceive factual information, which is not a universal trait among cultists. Maybe if you had just put out, instead of becoming a signatories to a vow of consumer chastity, the old twinkle might return to his eye.

To put this into some perspective, Call of Duty 4 sold 13 million copies, including 10 million in the first six months or so of release. It's probably safe to assume the Modern Warfare 2's sales will be at least the same, and quite possibly surpass this, but let's err on the side of caution and assume it sells just 5 million. Now, the petition has reached 140000 signatories (although, realistically, I'm sure we all know that there's a discrepancy between the number of names on that list, and the number of actual people who signed it). Even if that petition reaches 200000 names, that's still only 10% of the (potential) market. It's also a 10% who are using cheap, immature bully tactics to try and get what they want. The overwhelming response has been to demand, instead of negotiate, and while some gamers have made efforts to put their case forward in a dignified manner worth consideration, the majority have been a mob howling for IW's blood for this egregious betrayal, and out to denigrate and discredit the so-called "casual market" instead - for what? Also buying games? Oh, the humanity. Ask yourselves if this is a 10% of the market IW should be listening to with any sort of seriousness at all.

The responses I've been getting on this forum are really no different - I'm being accused of being a console fangirl, being biased, being bigoted, "not understanding the PC gamer" (even though I am one) and not knowing what I'm talking about simply for suggesting that the PC market isn't as important as it seems to think it is.

 

[Stefan9]

Because with mod support and custom maps, there'd be no incentive to buy DLC. Simple.

So you can't have both?? EA/BioWare must not have gotten the memo on that since they are offering a toolset with mods and 2 years of dlc for Dragon Age. Or is it different for an fps as opposed to an rpg??

 

[Azimuth]

So you can't have both?? EA/BioWare must not have gotten the memo on that since they are offering a toolset with mods and 2 years of dlc for Dragon Age. Or is it different for an fps as opposed to an rpg??

Of course you can have both, but that sort of undermines Activision's two-year plan to own the universe, doesn't it?

 

[Sockmonkey]

PC, Xbox, DS, PSP, Wii.

I like games. I don't like attitudes that claim one platform is better than any other, and deserves special treatment.

Elsewhere, Penny Arcade actually really did say this:



To put this into some perspective, Call of Duty 4 sold 13 million copies, including 10 million in the first six months or so of release. It's probably safe to assume the Modern Warfare 2's sales will be at least the same, and quite possibly surpass this, but let's err on the side of caution and assume it sells just 5 million. Now, the petition has reached 140000 signatories (although, realistically, I'm sure we all know that there's a discrepancy between the number of names on that list, and the number of actual people who signed it). Even if that petition reaches 200000 names, that's still only 10% of the (potential) market. It's also a 10% who are using cheap, immature bully tactics to try and get what they want. The overwhelming response has been to demand, instead of negotiate, and while some gamers have made efforts to put their case forward in a dignified manner worth consideration, the majority have been a mob howling for IW's blood for this egregious betrayal, and out to denigrate and discredit the so-called "casual market" instead - for what? Also buying games? Oh, the humanity. Ask yourselves if this is a 10% of the market IW should be listening to with any sort of seriousness at all.

I see what you are trying to say with the numbers, but theres just one flaw. There are those gamers that could not be bothered with a petition yet they wont buy the game and then there are those that put their name on the petition but will secretly go and buy the game. Those numbers cannot be predicted.

 

[Cobalt]

Hmmm, Azimuth, I like the way you write and think! I think all your points are very correct and echo much of my own sentiment regarding MW2. Obviously I want dedicated servers. Obviously I want the game to be R399. But the fact of the matter is that like any business the game dev's and publishers are going to do what makes economic sense. They don't owe us anything...People seem to believe that we OWN them because we bought like one game 3 years ago. They don't have any allegiance to us what so ever. So what does this all mean? So what if Modern War 2 isn't the next big HARDCORE FPS shooter? Who cares? Is one game the be all and end all of the Gaming World? There will be more games! I think the gaming community can tend towards melodramatic over reaction when we don't get what we want...I mean trust me I also raged at the decisions that have been made...but I didn't feel the need to send a snotty letter with a bag of faeces with a post it saying "light me". I think its good enough that IW/Activision won't be getting my R499. Not because I feel like they've betrayed me and sold their souls to the capitalist devil or some such bs. But because they are simply not offering me what I want. And I will hold out until someone does.

 

[Azimuth]

I see what you are trying to say with the numbers, but theres just one flaw. There are those gamers that could not be bothered with a petition yet they wont buy the game and then there are those that put their name on the petition but will secretly go and buy the game. Those numbers cannot be predicted.

No, but they probably go some way to cancelling each other out, lulz.

I spoke with Megarom a day or two back, and apparently hardly anyone has actually cancelled their preorder. So either lots of people around here are fibbing, or the only people cancelling their preorders are, well, the people around here.

Hmmm, Azimuth, I like the way you write and think! I think all your points are very correct and echo much of my own sentiment regarding MW2. Obviously I want dedicated servers. Obviously I want the game to be R399. But the fact of the matter is that like any business the game dev's and publishers are going to do what makes economic sense. They don't owe us anything...People seem to believe that we OWN them because we bought like one game 3 years ago. They don't have any allegiance to us what so ever. So what does this all mean? So what if Modern War 2 isn't the next big HARDCORE FPS shooter? Who cares? Is one game the be all and end all of the Gaming World? There will be more games! I think the gaming community can tend towards melodramatic over reaction when we don't get what we want...I mean trust me I also raged at the decisions that have been made...but I didn't feel the need to send a snotty letter with a bag of faeces with a post it saying "light me". I think its good enough that IW/Activision won't be getting my R499. Not because I feel like they've betrayed me and sold their souls to the capitalist devil or some such bs. But because they are simply not offering me what I want. And I will hold out until someone does.

A SENSIBLE POST! <3

 

[Tsar]

No, but they probably go some way to cancelling each other out, lulz.

I spoke with Megarom a day or two back, and apparently hardly anyone has actually cancelled their preorder. So either lots of people around here are fibbing, or the only people cancelling their preorders are, well, the people around here.



A SENSIBLE POST! <3

I dont pre-order but I will not be forking out R500 for a short single player. I going to get Dragon age rather

 

[Isengard]

Hmmm, Azimuth, I like the way you write and think! I think all your points are very correct and echo much of my own sentiment regarding MW2. Obviously I want dedicated servers. Obviously I want the game to be R399. But the fact of the matter is that like any business the game dev's and publishers are going to do what makes economic sense. They don't owe us anything...People seem to believe that we OWN them because we bought like one game 3 years ago. They don't have any allegiance to us what so ever. So what does this all mean? So what if Modern War 2 isn't the next big HARDCORE FPS shooter? Who cares? Is one game the be all and end all of the Gaming World? There will be more games! I think the gaming community can tend towards melodramatic over reaction when we don't get what we want...I mean trust me I also raged at the decisions that have been made...but I didn't feel the need to send a snotty letter with a bag of faeces with a post it saying "light me". I think its good enough that IW/Activision won't be getting my R499. Not because I feel like they've betrayed me and sold their souls to the capitalist devil or some such bs. But because they are simply not offering me what I want. And I will hold out until someone does.

Yes you are right, we can tend to be a little melodramatic drama queens.
But when someone is trying to screw you over you don't keep quiet about it. I don't care about allegiances, what ever developer makes a good game will get my patronage. Just google Bobby Kotick and read what he says about the way he wants his company to be run, then you'll realise the that the R500 price tag they slapped onto the PC version is nothing more than greed, plain and simple. To just say nothing is to support such ideas. I for one don't want it to become a trend.

 

[Fillerbunny]

For the record, Azimuth:

I said you were ignorant because you made basic factual errors about the mp systems of games and the prevalence of mods, not because your viewpoint on this matter was different.

I said you were out of touch with PC gamers, because you think that the platform is solely about numbers.

My argument may be emotive, but yours is just plain cynical: numbers dictate everything. The truth is that this is an explicit choice by a developer to change the playerbase that their game is aimed at on the PC. Numbers don't tell them what to do, they look at the numbers and make choices based on them. Whether there is a financial incentive behind this is actually only a guess.

PC games do have a higher profit margin than console, especially when you include DD, but Activision is pretty well known for inaccurate or misleading sales data, so no-one is really sure how significant this market is for overall profit. Adding the PS3 and 360 sales of CoD4 and subtracting them from the total gives you a number of around 2 million PC sales (source). Given that this is the same as games such as Stalker, and CoD4 topped retail and DD charts for months, and recently had stock problems due to continued demand, this figure seems wrong.

Lets use these figures anyway, since you use the published ones, and play your numbers game, only getting the math right this time.

CoD4 has sales of about 14 Million (source), 2 Million on PC is 14% of that (rounded down). If MW2 has sales of 5 million, and the ratio of console-pc sales remains stable, then 700,000 will be on pc. 200,000 is 29% of that (rounded up). While this is hardly a majority, it is still a significant share of the market. Math busted! Even a market share of 10% at CoD4 sales level is still a signifcant reduction in revenue, at 60$ it is $12 million in lost revenue, nothing to sneeze at. This is, of course, using highly speculative figures, and so is largely useless.

Also, while we're using numbers to make points, 162 out of 200,000 is 0.081%, 352 is 0.18%, and you'd better get out there, human rights activists everywhere are using the 'cheap bullying tactics' of petitions and boycotts, or is that only a problem when you don't agree with the cause?

The fact is that the numbers of players who would prefer the two systems is unknown, let alone the numbers who would only buy the game it if had system x. Throwing around figures without this knowledge is just plain ignorant guesswork. Using largely made-up figures as part of an argument is even worse.

 

[Fillerbunny]

I spoke with Megarom a day or two back, and apparently hardly anyone has actually cancelled their preorder. So either lots of people around here are fibbing, or the only people cancelling their preorders are, well, the people around here.

I'm sure I'm going to sound ignorant, but what does a supplier have to do with pre-ordering data? When a retailer tells you that their clients are cancelling their pre-orders does it necessarily mean that they are going to cancel those orders with their supplier, and not just keep that stock to sell at release?

If the number of cancellations of PreOrders we're receiving is any indication then that's going to be quite a big drop for that bucket.

We are getting quite a few Pre-Order cancels on MW2 PC. To be honest this does not really bother me, especially after the PC price hike debacle. Ever cancelled pre-order is saving us money.

source

I'm not part of this, since I don't pre-order games, but actual figures from retailers would probably give a better indication of this, rather than vague mumblings from suppliers.

 

[Isengard]

You have to consider that a lot of people simply don't know about this. Not everyone checks the latest gaming news online, especially casual gamers. Then again, how many casual gamers even do pre-orders?

 

[Azimuth]

For the record, Azimuth:

I said you were ignorant because you made basic factual errors about the mp systems of games and the prevalence of mods, not because your viewpoint on this matter was different.

What factual errors? And I'm asking this without rancour - I'm really not sure what you're referring to here.

I said you were out of touch with PC gamers, because you think that the platform is solely about numbers.

And I think you're out of touch with reality, because you think Infinity Ward owes you something. Could you possibly be any more self-entitled?

My argument may be emotive, but yours is just plain cynical: numbers dictate everything. The truth is that this is an explicit choice by a developer to change the playerbase that their game is aimed at on the PC. Numbers don't tell them what to do, they look at the numbers and make choices based on them. Whether there is a financial incentive behind this is actually only a guess.

Cynical, sure. Realistic? Probably. You'd have to agree that it makes business sense to market a product to the largest possible market.

I think you're also mistaking my objective views with my subjective views. Personally, I think taking dedicated servers away wasn't a good idea at all, for any number of reasons. Meanwhile, back in the real world, businesses exist primarily to make money, and forcing players into a tightly controlled multiplayer system means maximising company profits.

PC games do have a higher profit margin than console, especially when you include DD, but Activision is pretty well known for inaccurate or misleading sales data, so no-one is really sure how significant this market is for overall profit. Adding the PS3 and 360 sales of CoD4 and subtracting them from the total gives you a number of around 2 million PC sales (source). Given that this is the same as games such as Stalker, and CoD4 topped retail and DD charts for months, and recently had stock problems due to continued demand, this figure seems wrong.

PC games have a larger profit margin per unit sold, but in total? I think you'll find companies are making more money from console title sales.

Lets use these figures anyway, since you use the published ones, and play your numbers game, only getting the math right this time.

CoD4 has sales of about 14 Million (source), 2 Million on PC is 14% of that (rounded down). If MW2 has sales of 5 million, and the ratio of console-pc sales remains stable, then 700,000 will be on pc. 200,000 is 29% of that (rounded up). While this is hardly a majority, it is still a significant share of the market. Math busted! Even a market share of 10% at CoD4 sales level is still a signifcant reduction in revenue, at 60$ it is $12 million in lost revenue, nothing to sneeze at. This is, of course, using highly speculative figures, and so is largely useless.

I didn't include a breakdown of sales per platform, because I'm trying to include the "casual" market in my figures. Which is kind of the whole point of most of my posts here - the casual market is much more significant than some of you guys want to think.

You're also assuming that all sales on PC = sales to "hardcore" players. Which is not an assumption you can really make with any confidence at all.

Also, while we're using numbers to make points, 162 out of 200,000 is 0.081%, 352 is 0.18%, and you'd better get out there, human rights activists everywhere are using the 'cheap bullying tactics' of petitions and boycotts, or is that only a problem when you don't agree with the cause?

Relevance? And more assumptions.

The fact is that the numbers of players who would prefer the two systems is unknown, let alone the numbers who would only buy the game it if had system x. Throwing around figures without this knowledge is just plain ignorant guesswork. Using largely made-up figures as part of an argument is even worse.

Of course it's unknown. You wouldn't think that to look at forum posts from angry PC gamers demanding everyone boycott the game on the assumption that everyone wants to.

 

[Tsar]

What factual errors? And I'm asking this without rancour - I'm really not sure what you're referring to here.



And I think you're out of touch with reality, because you think Infinity Ward owes you something. Could you possibly be any more self-entitled?



Cynical, sure. Realistic? Probably. You'd have to agree that it makes business sense to market a product to the largest possible market.

I think you're also mistaking my objective views with my subjective views. Personally, I think taking dedicated servers away wasn't a good idea at all, for any number of reasons. Meanwhile, back in the real world, businesses exist primarily to make money, and forcing players into a tightly controlled multiplayer system means maximising company profits.



PC games have a larger profit margin per unit sold, but in total? I think you'll find companies are making more money from console title sales.



I didn't include a breakdown of sales per platform, because I'm trying to include the "casual" market in my figures. Which is kind of the whole point of most of my posts here - the casual market is much more significant than some of you guys want to think.

You're also assuming that all sales on PC = sales to "hardcore" players. Which is not an assumption you can really make with any confidence at all.



Relevance? And more assumptions.



Of course it's unknown. You wouldn't think that to look at forum posts from angry PC gamers demanding everyone boycott the game on the assumption that everyone wants to.

I dont care anymore. I just going to find something else to play

 

[Gradius]

This is a great read and makes for some light hearted humour we all need.

Hardcore gamers, although a minority. Always keep there systems up-to-date with the latest goodies. Lots of my friends are casual gamers, so although it does bother me to some extent. They won't have the patience to fully explore the game to its full potential.

After they've got head shot for the 100th time they'll go bake to wii resorting or something or other So hardcore players will still keep this going irregardless of the brain fart they had...

@Tsar. I couldn't agree more. Someone else can earn my hard earned money

 

[Azimuth]

I think I'm done here too (for the second time, haha). Fillerbunny, I'm not sure what sort of person you are generally (and I don't much care to speculate), but if we'd been having this discussion in person, I'd have laughed you off at "I'm special" and abandoned the discussion then and there. Why I've continued this online is a mystery.

Here's to us perhaps agreeing on some other topic in the future.

 

[Fillerbunny]

Edit: removed reply, didn't see last post.

I do think I'm special, but only in relation to casual gamers. Who amongst them has received the hallowed knowledge of Quake III FPS sweet spots, handed down by none other than the most high Rapts himself?

Unless, of course, you mean it in the sense of being the beautiful and unique snowflake that I am, because then I'll be sad.

 

[Azimuth]

You're not special in the sense of:

Edit: removed reply, didn't see last post.

I do think I'm special, but only in relation to casual gamers. Who amongst them has received the hallowed knowledge of Quake III FPS sweet spots, handed down by none other than the most high Rapts himself?

This.

Unless, of course, you mean it in the sense of being the beautiful and unique snowflake that I am, because then I'll be sad.

But not this. So pretty. :3

 

[Subversion]

lol Azimuth, I'm starting to think mygaming employs you to jump into every thread and ruffle as many feathers as possible

i must say, you're very very good at doing just that, and you know what, take that as a compliment

I think, if this wasn't the angry angry interwebs, me and you could get along

 

[smokey]

It's also a 10% who are using cheap, immature bully tactics to try and get what they want. The overwhelming response has been to demand, instead of negotiate, and while some gamers have made efforts to put their case forward in a dignified manner worth consideration, the majority have been a mob howling for IW's blood for this egregious betrayal, and out to denigrate and discredit the so-called "casual market" instead - for what?

1. Well, consumers have to raise their voices once in a while. Otherwise you have a situation similar to the one we have in the telecoms industry.

2. When you pay, you can demand. It's that simple. Since when did being nice get anything done? This is in reference to large corporations vs the consumer.

--

I just don't get why they had to do this with the PC version. The "casual" gamers will most likely have an XBox/PS3 anyway because only the hardcore gamers have the "dedication" to keep their rigs up-to-date and run these titles the way they were meant to be run. I doubt there are many "casual" gamers for the PC that "silently boycott" FPS'...

 

[Gradius]

Change only applies when enough people will bitch about it
@ Subversion. Agreed