Do you care about who you're shooting in games?

[Azimuth]

Well I was comparing ideologies with institutionalized brutally. You cherry picked individual incidents. Rape is illegal in the USMC while chopping a person's head off for example is openly sanctioned by the Taliban.

It's illegal, sure, but raped soldiers seldom prosecute. Or even report the incident, for that matter. If you're interested in reading up about it, this article is a good place to start. A significant quote:

Spranger and several other women told me the military climate is so severe on whistle-blowers that even they regarded the women who reported rape as incapable traitors. You have to handle it on your own and shut up, is how they saw it. [...]

But within the military, reporting is even more risky. Military platoons are enclosed, hierarchical societies, riddled with gossip, so any woman who reports a rape has no realistic chance of remaining anonymous. She will have to face her assailant day after day, and put up with rumors, resentment and blame from other soldiers. Furthermore, she runs the risk of being punished by her assailant if he is her superior.

If that's not institutionalised brutality, I'm not sure what is.

Have you any examples where Communism was not "twisted to wicked ends"? Or Nazism or Fascism for that matter.

To be fair, very few examples of communism, nazism (ultranationalism), or fascism in practice exist or have existed. Certainly not enough for anything like a reasonable control group, anyway. It'd be like determining the merits of something based on only four or five examples. I'm not saying they're objectively great political systems either, mind you, but rather that labelling something as unambiguously evil with no regard for context is dangerous. Even nazism, which espouses a number of pretty repugnant ideologies, came about as the result of complex motivations, not all of which were necessarily evil at all.

There must be something wrong with the ideology if everywhere it's implemented oppression and murder runs rampant

That might mean something if oppression and murder were exclusive to certain political ideologies and climates. That's not the case, however. Consider America - the LAND OF THE FREE. That's provided you're not gay, not an atheist, not a liberal, not an immigrant, the list goes on. Sure, it's not a matter of state policy, but only a fool could ignore that it's democratic ideals of freedom of expression that give rise to stuff like, say, the Westboro Baptist Church. Ironically.

Cronies? Who might they be? Open free western democracies perhaps.

No not at all. The world is not fair. The Iranian regime is not equal to say France. Millions of people didn't die fighting despotism just to suddenly be relegated to equal status as some tinpot tyrant. So yes Democracy is the supreme authority.

Democracy is only the lesser of evils, really. Or are you saying that a system of government that allows a 52% majority of bigots to decide that some people aren't allowed to be fucking married is an objectively and indisputably good thing?

And remember - those tinpot tyrants likely think exactly the same of George W Bush. Righteousness is relative.

 

[Tsar]

I've been thinking about this (well, obviously), and I guess I've realised I have a conscience about this stuff. For example, in MW2's No Russian mission, I didn't shoot anyone. I just couldn't. Its somewhat shabby, stupid plot notwithstanding, I found the game extremely engaging, and in that moment, it all felt rather real. The game did that whole suspension of disbelief thing rather too well.

I understand, of course, that for many people, it's just an opportunity to shoot pretend-guns at pretend-people, but I can't always separate myself from the potential reality of some scenarios. Maybe I don't want to. I like that games can move me sometimes.

The only people I could noy shoot were the scientists in hl 1 And all governments=fail.

 

[Maplassie]

That pesky dog in DuckHunt always evaded my shots

 

[Tsar]

That pesky dog in DuckHunt always evaded my shots

lol that dog use to bug me.

 

[Tank]

i also didn't shoot anyone in the no russian level, fired aimlessly over their heads but never into the crowds of hapless civvies.

it may just be a game but i still could not do it

 

[JackBauer]

And i am Jack Bauer

 

[Tsar]

i also didn't shoot anyone in the no russian level, fired aimlessly over their heads but never into the crowds of hapless civvies.

it may just be a game but i still could not do it

I killed as many as I could.

 

[Maplassie]

And i am Jack Bauer

EK is bang vir oom jack :'(

 

[powderbucket]

Don't think I mind who I kill, I think it is more about how I kill them some times. Then again, Manhunt is one of my favourite games

I don't think I'd enjoy it very much if a game made me kill babies or little puppies, but, then again, it depends how, why and how realistic is it. For example, I had to problem leaching ADAM from those Little Sisters in Bioshock even if it meant turning them into slugs, but I would have a problem if a very realistic game made me strangle a dog to death realistically for purely gratuitous purposes.

 

[Alan]

It's illegal, sure, but raped soldiers seldom prosecute. Or even report the incident, for that matter. If you're interested in reading up about it, this article is a good place to start. A significant quote:
If that's not institutionalised brutality, I'm not sure what is.

Like you said it's illegal. If it's felt that womens rights are not being upheld then they have means to challenge the USMC. The Taliban allows no such right. Not equal.

To be fair, very few examples of communism, nazism (ultranationalism), or fascism in practice exist or have existed. Certainly not enough for anything like a reasonable control group, anyway. It'd be like determining the merits of something based on only four or five examples. I'm not saying they're objectively great political systems either, mind you, but rather that labelling something as unambiguously evil with no regard for context is dangerous. Even nazism, which espouses a number of pretty repugnant ideologies, came about as the result of complex motivations, not all of which were necessarily evil at all.

I dunno communism ruled the lives of over a billion people for decades. At least over a dozen commie countries have existed. None of which met even the most basic standards. It's been tested thoroughly and thankfully discarded.

They qualify as evil to me. Their millions of victims agree I'm sure.

That might mean something if oppression and murder were exclusive to certain political ideologies and climates. That's not the case, however. Consider America - the LAND OF THE FREE. That's provided you're not gay, not an atheist, not a liberal, not an immigrant, the list goes on. Sure, it's not a matter of state policy, but only a fool could ignore that it's democratic ideals of freedom of expression that give rise to stuff like, say, the Westboro Baptist Church. Ironically.

The president of "America - the LAND OF THE FREE" is a black liberal. Seems pretty free to me.

Democracy is only the lesser of evils, really. Or are you saying that a system of government that allows a 52% majority of bigots to decide that some people aren't allowed to be fucking married is an objectively and indisputably good thing?

Actually democracy is more than just the rule of the majority. There is the constitution after all. It is not perfect far from it but it's miles ahead of many regimes and ideologies. You may not be able to marry now( and you have the right to challenge it openly) but in Iran if you're gay you'll be hanging from a tree.

Like I said not equal.

And remember - those tinpot tyrants likely think exactly the same of George W Bush. Righteousness is relative.

Did he not give up power after serving his terms? Allowed the free press to operate etc. Not very tyrant like IMO

Ultimately everybody believes in their own righteous causes. You either stand up for them or not.

 

[Azimuth]

Aaaaaand... you're just consistently failing to see the point. Also, if you're not going to read that article I linked, try and be more subtle about it. Like, maybe, not saying something that isn't covered at length - and roundly disputed - in the article already.

 

[Alan]

Forgive me if I don't take the article as gospel

We agree to disagree.

 

[Tsar]

Don't think I mind who I kill, I think it is more about how I kill them some times. Then again, Manhunt is one of my favourite games

I don't think I'd enjoy it very much if a game made me kill babies or little puppies, but, then again, it depends how, why and how realistic is it. For example, I had to problem leaching ADAM from those Little Sisters in Bioshock even if it meant turning them into slugs, but I would have a problem if a very realistic game made me strangle a dog to death realistically for purely gratuitous purposes.

Man hunt was the most voilent game ever finished it in one sitting. Love using somebodies head as a distraction

 

[tpex]

LOLWUT? havn't we been playing the taliban in cod4 MP for years????

 

[Raven Gold]

For those conflicted with good and evil.

Evil is knowing, deep down, that what your doing is wrong, but still doing it anyways. If you truely feel that doing it is right, than it's right, for you. The problem comes in, whats better for the greater good of those around you from all possible viewpoints?

 

[Necuno]

Forgive me if I don't take the article as gospel

We agree to disagree.

clearly you are a "America - the LAND OF THE FREE" fanboy.

if "America - the LAND OF THE FREE", tells you to go and kill yourself will you do it ? the only thing worse than misuse of religion and imprinting people with ideas are sheep who blindly sing along to power houses. no "America - the LAND OF THE FREE" or no zionship or related should be telling anyone that they are cool to control the nukes are rest are not. it's a hypocrisy in itself.

no alan my dear, maybe time to put down a bit of your propaganda machine.

 

[Necuno]

if anyone played the original jedi knight ( one after dark forces ) only way you could turn to the darkside was by literally killing everything and everyone in one stage, which was perfectly in-line with you the character going over towards "evil". however at the very end, you have the consequences of your actions, you are powerful, but all alone...

To answer the thread question: I find it more enjoyable to be the bad guy. Comically evil like the dungeon keeper, or the overlord... even better.

exactly. "evil" sells, however good and evil are in the eye of the beholder.

And i am Jack Bauer

i'm not.

Very interesting article, as always. I don't really care what/who I'm shooting. The only exceptions being maybe children and some animals (like dogs, I HATE killing dogs in games like CoD).

how exactly so. it's a digital array of pixels, it's not the real thing. if you can kill and adult you can kill a baby, bit of bullshitting yourself being able to do one violence in a game, but then being cherry picking about it.

 

[Azimuth]

Forgive me if I don't take the article as gospel

We agree to disagree.

But I'm guessing you'll take the "stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction" claim as gospel?

Yes. We agree to disagree. But only one of us is actually thinking for themselves.

 

[Azimuth]

how exactly so. it's a digital array of pixels, it's not the real thing. if you can kill and adult you can kill a baby, bit of bullshitting yourself being able to do one violence in a game, but then being cherry picking about it.

Uh, not all games are particularly convincing. Also, context. Unless anyone has something they'd like to tell us, taking a trip around hell killing demon babies isn't exactly a very likely contingency in reality. Being in an airport under terrorist attack kinda is.

 

[Alan]

no "America - the LAND OF THE FREE" or no zionship or related should be telling anyone that they are cool to control the nukes are rest are not. it's a hypocrisy in itself.

no alan my dear, maybe time to put down a bit of your propaganda machine.

Yeah I'm the zealot. I live in Arkansas and watch FOX news all day

So you think it's wrong to prevent an extremist nutcase like Ahmajinedad from getting nuclear weapons?

But I'm guessing you'll take the "stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction" claim as gospel?

Yes. We agree to disagree. But only one of us is actually thinking for themselves.

I dunno you all seem to saying the same thing as the mainstream media. I'm not exactly sure who exactly you think "brainwashed" me