Forced to work overtime without pay. Can anything be done about it?
- Thread starter Gimaru
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This is not strictly correct. You are not automatically granted overtime by the law because it is presumed you are in a position to negotiate on your own behalf. Everyone, except for specific job category exemptions, is entitled to overtime pay for overtime work. Many white collar workers are viciously exploited by the employers in regard to overtime.
Even if you're over the threshold and stupidly signed a contract saying you would work overtime for free you can still refuse to work overtime.
Deadline once, maybe. It's bad planning on their part. More than once it is definitely poor planning. Seen it many times. Company makes unreasonable promises, then expects lower level employees to sacrifice to clean up management's mess. Contract or not you can still tell them to **** off. An unexpected event is something different. If they try to lump a deadline with unexpected events it means they didn't plan. The ones whose heads should roll are the management, starting with the most senior person involved.
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Not in engineering, man
We were taught at varsity already, nothing goes quick, and nothing is simple. If your project goes as quick as you expected, you're making a mistake somewhere. Unfortunately, this is a pretty common thing in this industry.
czc
Thread Killer Mk VIII
Not in engineering, man
Yep, or some project manager gets it into his head that he wants to finish in August and the contract was just signed in June.
Last company was similar, they pulled the 'overtime is unpaid' i said no no no, they cant just not pay for overtime. So we agreed to weekend overtime being paid. But still ended up getting home late every weekday night, leaving the office at 11pm sometimes, getting in early everyday but nothing on weekends 
so it all went unpaid.
I have been at the new place since Tuesday. 15mins drive in and 15mins home
, leave at 4pm. Life is awesome now.
so it all went unpaid.I have been at the new place since Tuesday. 15mins drive in and 15mins home
, leave at 4pm. Life is awesome now.I've worked in engineering for a long time and every 'late' delivery has been because those making promises to customers promised more than could be delivered. A big reason this tended happen was because these guys knew nothing about engineering. Once can be put down to error or stupidity. More than once... Well you're supposed to learn from those mistakes.Not in engineering, man
If you deliver on time it means you built an adequate buffer into the project estimate. Something one would expect anyone who claims to have decades of experience managing engineering projects to do and to do well.
However don't ask the engineers to make big sacrifices of their time when it's those same idiot executives that get the big rewards. If something really unexpected goes wrong, something that has never happened before in the history of engineering projects, then be prepared to pay someone to fix it.
That's fine, but don't expect to get it for free. I've got no problem helping out to get an essential contract, but my time isn't free. It really ticks me off when I watch the so-called decision makers running off home at four thirty everyday, while the engineers kill themselves to deliver, then those same lazy executives get fat rewards and pats on the back for delivering on time. Often the only reason those companies aren't bankrupt is because of the technical guys saving the day.
Cicero
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Yeah agreed. I think from what I've seen, you're an elec engineer like me? Deadlines come with the territory, and I've also have done some massive overtime. Often working right through the night for a couple of days straight. No more extra pay for me.
But if you earn less than that threshold, then by law they need to pay you the overtime. Personally, I think 1 to 2 hours overtime isn't a train smash and you should be ok with it, but anything over that shouldn't happen for any extended period of time.
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Cool, what field are you in?
From what I've seen recently, it's become less about inexperience and mistakes, and more about getting that contract.. If you deliver late, you get fee penalties, but your still satisfied with the penalised pay so you take it.. Then, somewhere along the line, you still try and deliver on the specified date to get the bigger paycheck. Greed and desperation, more than stupidity these days, IMO.
The buffer is an excellent thing to have, but unfortunately, most people also suffer from 'student syndrome', working slowly in the beginning, then only powering when the pressure is on. On bigger projects it's even easier to make that mistake, even when you have a great PM plan in place.
I've got to say, I'm quite lucky at my company: our MD's are two engineers that started the company 20-odd years ago, and both still do engineering work as well, so they are very familiar with our workshop, work environment and time constraints.
Voicy
Resident Panty Kicker
Avatar tells it like it is.
Quite often in the consulting field it's not a case of your manager/director making a bugger up, it's the client who woke up too late and now magically wants the architect/engineering team to spin out a design and get documentation done overnight. It's the rule more than the exception. Unfortunately if you want your company to survive, you bow into the pressure and do what's needed.
Yep. I've never been one to refuse work by saying it's not in my job description. Even working 1-2hrs overtime to get stuff sorted for the next day is just logical for me instead of putting pressure on yourself tomorrow.
But yeah - the project deadlines always end up being "an emergency" and we get told that they'll sort us out at the end of the year with bonuses. Problem with that is, bonuses are split equally. So if you put in 100hrs more than the other guy, you still get the same bonus. The bonuses are also not even close to normal working rates, let alone x1.5 / x2. Which becomes a slap in the face if your base salary isn't even market related.
The saddest part is, management does not realise that this makes even their eager employees become despondent. It's gone on for far too long where you (and me) shut up and do our work because we feel grateful for just having a job.
Quite often in the consulting field it's not a case of your manager/director making a bugger up, it's the client who woke up too late and now magically wants the architect/engineering team to spin out a design and get documentation done overnight. It's the rule more than the exception. Unfortunately if you want your company to survive, you bow into the pressure and do what's needed.
Yep. I've never been one to refuse work by saying it's not in my job description. Even working 1-2hrs overtime to get stuff sorted for the next day is just logical for me instead of putting pressure on yourself tomorrow.
But yeah - the project deadlines always end up being "an emergency" and we get told that they'll sort us out at the end of the year with bonuses. Problem with that is, bonuses are split equally. So if you put in 100hrs more than the other guy, you still get the same bonus. The bonuses are also not even close to normal working rates, let alone x1.5 / x2. Which becomes a slap in the face if your base salary isn't even market related.
The saddest part is, management does not realise that this makes even their eager employees become despondent. It's gone on for far too long where you (and me) shut up and do our work because we feel grateful for just having a job.
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Geez, I completely forgot about this part. I'm working on a design project right now. The design spec from the clients for the entire project:
1) Must use a turbine engine.
2) Must carry four people.
3) Must have marble floors.
Clients are idiots, much more than execs.
czc
Thread Killer Mk VIII
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I feel your pain really I do.
I have been working plenty over time yet we don't get paid for it. I have had plenty of fights with my boss last month that passed, I got him to pay for my two days leave, wich we we never get and public holidays and he never pays for that.It is all about how you deal with it.Communication is really everything.
The only thing I can tell you is work and have a chat with your boss, set up a meeting and talk things out. Get your boss to try and understand where you are coming from. Try and do so before going the drastic route of CCMA.
Hope that things go better for you. Always remember walk away with your head held high and with respect. Do not speak out of emotions and anger that won't solve anything. Just nip it in the bud and speak to your boss.
Those who work hard in a company and put up with all the shit get further in life as a person. Those who do not will never get any where. You will be respected more.
I have been working plenty over time yet we don't get paid for it. I have had plenty of fights with my boss last month that passed, I got him to pay for my two days leave, wich we we never get and public holidays and he never pays for that.It is all about how you deal with it.Communication is really everything.
The only thing I can tell you is work and have a chat with your boss, set up a meeting and talk things out. Get your boss to try and understand where you are coming from. Try and do so before going the drastic route of CCMA.
Hope that things go better for you. Always remember walk away with your head held high and with respect. Do not speak out of emotions and anger that won't solve anything. Just nip it in the bud and speak to your boss.
Those who work hard in a company and put up with all the shit get further in life as a person. Those who do not will never get any where. You will be respected more.