Is buying realistic shooters a moral choice?

[Clint_ZA]

Look at kids even before they really know whats happening:
Boys want to build, break, shoot, design, race, punch ,kick, jump of rooftops (COD,NFS,BF3)
Girls make tea,play with dolls, do makeup, have imaginary husbands and kids (Sims/MMO/Facebook crap games)

Unfortunately not knowing what is happening probably only lasts a few months... My children are brought up to make their own choices (demonstrated above by me begrudgingly allowing shooting games). My little girl recently said she cannot play with spiderman as it is for boys. This never came from us. Quite the contrary in fact. Clearly someone she interacts with at her school said this to her. Very likely that child's parent was not as liberal with their kids and probably planted these sexist ideas...

Our little girl will make tea for her dolls one minute and next she'll be superman (no need to correct her) or acting like bob the builder.

Bottom line, youngsters are greatly influenced by their surroundings... and no doubt the games they play.

 

[Necuno]

I'm opposed to it.

Please return your car. It's killing people.

 

[Clint_ZA]

Please return your car. It's killing people.

There is that silly argument AGAIN. The purpose of a car is not to shoot people or other creatures. It's purpose is to transport people from one point to another.

 

[Necuno]

There is that silly argument AGAIN.

Exactly!! Right from the get go from the very first post and article on this. Agreed.

The purpose of a car is not to shoot people or other creatures. It's purpose is to transport people from one point to another.

Also transporting rapists, murderers, high jackers, drug dealers oh and those that drive and kill people. Just transport

It sure isn't about how they are used, they are just transport

 

[Ike_009]

Please get rid of kitchen knives, it can and has been used as an instrument for murder and like the Gun is pure evil. Don't support mnet because they host masterchef who purchase kitchen knifes and I'm not comfortable with that.
Kitchen knives kill people.

 

[Clint_ZA]

Please get rid of kitchen knives, it can and has been used as an instrument for murder and like the Gun is pure evil. Don't support mnet because they host masterchef who purchase kitchen knifes and I'm not comfortable with that.
Kitchen knives kill people.

Another silly argument. Think people, think. Can I slice my vegetables with an AK47? Can I cut through my juicy steak with a Glock? Remind me again of the purpose of guns besides killing someone or something? And before you refer to the sport of shooting take the time to read through my earlier comment.

 

[Lyt]

I'm opposed to it.

I am anti - guns. I laugh uncontrollably when people insist guns don't kill..

And I laugh uncontrollably when people blame guns for murders. A gun is a tool, used for a craft, just like any other tools. Blame the person handling the tool, not the tool.

Since we are talking about the situation in the States, you must blame :

1) Authorities not being stricter on gun control.
2) Police not doing proper background checks&tests to see if you are mentally stable.
3) Shops selling guns without checking your permit properly.
4) Parents buying guns for their kids.
5) People not storing their guns properly.
6) And lastly, everybody (especially children) must be educated about guns, just like about sex.

I am all for guns being sold to civilians , IF IT IS PROPERLY REGULATED. Unfortunately that's not the case in USA, where all kinds of weaponry is free-flowing.

I've never seen or handled them in real life

That already puts you in no position to judge, since everything that comes out of your brain about this matter will be biased. I honestly hate it when people who never shot a gun, been part of a shooting club, or even know nothing about guns speak out against guns.

Even the most unintelligent person knows they cannot kill by themselves (although we do repeatedly hear of accidental discharge incidents) but that same person knows had they are specifically designed for that purpose.

Guns were designed to wage wars, just like any other weapons. They are not meant for civilian use. BUT since criminals exist in our daily civilian lives, guns are a necessity.

If someone threatens my life or the lives of my beloved, I will not hesitate to kill him. I'm pretty sure you would do the same for your kids, so stop this anti gun bullshit of yours.

I don't want to sound harsh but it really gets to me when someone says they are pro "anti-gun" .

 

[Necuno]

Please get rid of kitchen knives, it can and has been used as an instrument for murder and like the Gun is pure evil. Don't support mnet because they host masterchef who purchase kitchen knifes and I'm not comfortable with that.
Kitchen knives kill people.

And don't do martial arts

 

[Clint_ZA]

I am all for guns being sold to civilians , IF IT IS PROPERLY REGULATED. Unfortunately that's not the case in USA, where all kinds of weaponry is free-flowing.

Why though? Why should a civilian need a firearm? In an ideal world no one would have guns. Of course we do not live in an ideal world but arming more and more people makes little sense. I know you will claim you need one for self defense but when you are fast asleep at night and someone enters your bedroom, your firearm is likely to be of very little use to you. They have the upper hand. They have the element of surprise. Of course, the firearm does give you a great false sense of security.

And lucky me, when they do rob you, and steal your gun, I then have two armed criminals to worry about next time...

That already puts you in no position to judge, since everything that comes out of your brain about this matter will be biased. I honestly hate it when people who never shot a gun, been part of a shooting club, or even know nothing about guns speak out against guns.

And likewise everything that comes out of your mouth as a gun lover is biased. Do you think someone who does not obsess over firearms knows nothing about them? How ridiculous. What is there to know? You pull a trigger, a bullet comes out. Wow that is complex. I think I need to go on a week long course to study that Yes, I could learn how to dismantle a gun. I could learn how to better handle a gun. I could learn gun safety. I could learn how to maintain and clean a gun but I really battle to see how this would possibly change my opinion. Do you really think I will suddenly love the idea of killing someone else suddenly?

This now tops the list of ridiculous arguments I have heard.

By the way, I've never killed, nor raped, anyone so I really should not have any opinion about all the murderers and rapists out there.... yip, two can play this ridiculous argument game.

Guns were designed to wage wars, just like any other weapons. They are not meant for civilian use. BUT since criminals exist in our daily civilian lives, guns are a necessity.

No, they aren't. I don't have one.

Many other people, who have not been attacked, also don't have one. Likewise many people who have been attacked, have one, and yet were still attacked. Of course, the latter felt better about their situation as they thought they were safe...

If someone threatens my life or the lives of my beloved, I will not hesitate to kill him. I'm pretty sure you would do the same for your kids, so stop this anti gun bullshit of yours.

I don't want to sound harsh but it really gets to me when someone says they are pro "anti-gun" .

I have kids. I would defend them. But as I have repeated a number of times, I feel no need for a false sense of security in owning a gun. I also have no desire to mistake my child for a criminal and shoot them myself. Ah, yes, you will claim that rarely happens, possibly it is rare but I have read a number of high profile cases, so one would assume there are even more unpublicised cases!

Stop your pro-gun bullshit. It might make you feel like Rambo but it does little to impress me.

 

[Ike_009]

You do realise in a country were they banned guns the crime levels also went up. Like it or not guns are a valid part of life and even if we didn't have guns then we would have idiots out there banning the use of spears or knifes or whatever else people would use.

Its people like you who live in their closed little bubble and judge the world who I hate. Sure guns are dangerous and yes case happen where people die. However saying that getting rid of guns will not change anything, criminals will still have guns and at best criminals will move onto something else, end of the day there are people out there who need guns to feel safe. Humans are dangerous and regardless what you do people will kill each other with a basic rock even. I just assumed we would develop into a race that understands this and use regulation to controls things instead of sticking their head in the ground and hoping the problem will go away.

By all means go on with your believe but people have died from guns, knifes, rocks, bats, tire irons, poison, boots, teeth and so on, the common element is someone behind the weapon who had the intent to kill, the weapon never had any intent to kill. If that was true then guns would be locked up in prisons and serial killers walking the streets as well adjusted citizens after having their guns taken away.

 

[Clint_ZA]

Did I once mention anything about the correlation between being anti-guns and crime stats?

I find it immensely humorous, and somewhat disturbing, how some of you feel that I am obligated to love firearms. I DON'T. Your arrogant attitude in assuming I live in a bubble and you are so worldly wise says a lot too. Why do I not need a gun to feel safe? Clearly the guns don't work in this respect as the pro-gunners are usually also the most neurotic about crime.

Being anti-guns is apparently sticking my head in the ground and hoping the problems go away. Yet your idea is to arm everyone to the teeth in the hope that the problem goes away. Whose idea seems more far fetched? I am biased but strangely enough mine sounds less like make believe.

Fascinating that you argue that regulation of firearms will work. Yet "your kind" usually argue that a gun ban will have little effect as it will only affect law abiding citizens and not the criminals. So how will strict regulation help? The criminals are not going to adhere to the regulations anyway? At least with my argument when you get robbed I don't have yet another gun to worry about. If one less gun exists and one less person dies then that is a success for me. Obviously you, on the other hand, see no value in human lives.

If someone attacks me with a knife they need to get close. They risk me defending myself. Likewise with a rock, a bat or a tyre iron. A gun allows for a distant, "no needs to get your hands dirty", kill. Pulling a trigger involves far less effort and, in my opinion, is far easier to do.

I dislike guns. Argue with me all you want but you will not change my view. I realise I am unlikely to change yours either. Once a Rambo, always a Rambo,

 

[Graal]

Why though? Why should a civilian need a firearm?

Why should I not be able to get one if I want one? I'm currently looking around at pistols because I want one that I can take down to the target range every once in a while. As a recreational activity.

And self defence is a viable motivation for owning a gun. You might not realise this because you're living in a safe little bubble, but in many places in SA it is not safe to sleep at night. Farm attacks are one example. I've got a friend who moved up to a farm in JHB in January, and they pretty much have to sleep with guns next to them at night because they get attacked. So far they've had two incidents where they were fired upon by trespassers and in March the people on the neighboring farm got butchered in their own home. Would you have them get attacked and not have any means to defend themselves?

They have the upper hand. They have the element of surprise. Of course, the firearm does give you a great false sense of security.

When people are attacking you a gun doesn't give you a false sense of security, it gives you a goddamned chance to survive.

Also, you're more than welcome to your opinion, but stop being such a dick about it. I'm starting to remember why you got banned from MyBB.

 

[Clint_ZA]

Also, you're more than welcome to your opinion, but stop being such a dick about it. I'm starting to remember why you got banned from MyBB.

A dick about it? Really?! I'm starting to realise why going against the popular opinion on MyBB gets you banned. Anyone who shares the popular opinion can happily refer to my opinion as "anti-gun bullshit" but if I respond in kind someone calls me out on "being a dick". Pathetic. For this reason I will not even bother to respond to the rest of your post.

 

[Clint_ZA]

Actually, you know what, I need to respond to show how wrong your arguments are...

And self defence is a viable motivation for owning a gun. You might not realise this because you're living in a safe little bubble, but in many places in SA it is not safe to sleep at night.

You do know what they say assumption does?!

I live in Pinetown. I hardly think it is an area that is thought of as being the safest area in SA! Quite the contrary in fact. And no, I do not live in a secure estate. Those are the preserve of the Highway area. An area that is so badly "under attack" that a special task force was set up to combat crime. An area just next to Pinetown...

I've got a friend who moved up to a farm in JHB in January, and they pretty much have to sleep with guns next to them at night because they get attacked. So far they've had two incidents where they were fired upon by trespassers and in March the people on the neighboring farm got butchered in their own home.

So just remind me again how the guns they sleep with next to their pillows helped them?

 

[Lyt]

...

Its people like you who live in their closed little bubble and judge the world who I hate.

This pretty much sums it up.

By the way, I've never killed, nor raped, anyone so I really should not have any opinion about all the murderers and rapists out there.... yip, two can play this ridiculous argument game.

Comparing guns to murder and rape...very reasonable.

Why though? Why should a civilian need a firearm? In an ideal world no one would have guns. Of course we do not live in an ideal world but arming more and more people makes little sense. I know you will claim you need one for self defense but when you are fast asleep at night and someone enters your bedroom, your firearm is likely to be of very little use to you. They have the upper hand. They have the element of surprise. Of course, the firearm does give you a great false sense of security.

You've never been robbed before have you? Our house has been robbed 3 times, and all 3 times the robbers were nowhere near our bedroom. They grab the PC, the TV, the laptop you left on your work desk. And element of surprise? You are telling me if someone smashes your window or rips the burglar bars open you will not wake up? You must have a huge house then...

Stop your pro-gun bullshit. It might make you feel like Rambo but it does little to impress me.

Impress you? I'm not pro-gun, as I said it must be regulated properly.

Maybe when you lose a beloved one someday ( God forbid ) , you will understand. I've lost a father who was shot and then had his throat slit, what have you got to show? UNTIL you lose a family member , UNTIL one of them is shot dead, I tell you to f off. Go to the army, they will burst your little bubble there.

Sorry man I hate getting into arguments over the internet where we can't talk face to face. Your opinion is wrong. We live in a violent country, where people are killed every day. Seems like you are turning a blind eye to this.

Obviously you, on the other hand, see no value in human lives.

If you think about it, If I or you or anyone not a famous celebrity dies nobody will give a flying f***. Sure your family will mourn your death for a few months, and then poof, just another statistic.

 

[Clint_ZA]

UNTIL you lose a family member , UNTIL one of them is shot dead, I tell you to fuck off.

There you go, Graal. Although I'm sure that will not bother you as he shares the popular view...

In conclusion for me here, I have come to realise that discussions are not actually encouraged on these forums so I'll refrain from further sharing an opinion that goes against the popular trend. Have fun.

 

[Necuno]

In conclusion for me here, I have come to realise that discussions are not actually encouraged on these forums so I'll refrain from further sharing an opinion that goes against the popular trend. Have fun.

Sun will rise again tomorrow.

 

[Lyt]

There you go, Graal. Although I'm sure that will not bother you as he shares the popular view...

In conclusion for me here, I have come to realise that discussions are not actually encouraged on these forums so I'll refrain from further sharing an opinion that goes against the popular trend. Have fun.

I was referring to you and other anti gun monkeys.

Sorry to have insulted you, got a bit emotional there.

discussions are not actually encouraged on these forums

Of course they are, what were we doing now? Ok maybe this wasn't the most fruitful discussion, but this is a sensitive topic.

 

[Fivel]

Of course they are, what were we doing now? Ok maybe this wasn't the most fruitful discussion, but this is a sensitive topic.

Thank you for sharing very personal stuff, it does help to understand your position a lot better.

I disagree that this wasn't fruitful. It is indicative of how polarizing this debate can be, an both sides have valid points.

 

[Graal]

So just remind me again how the guns they sleep with next to their pillows helped them?

So, just because in that instance it didn't help them, guns are useless and therefore nobody (except criminals ) should have them? How about my friend, who actually successfully chased of the attackers by shooting the guns into the air to scare them? Where would they have been had they not had guns? More than likely 6 feet under.

Clint, I'm very sorry you think discussion is not encouraged here, but how do you think people are supposed to react to your posts? You essentially just called everyone who is pro-gun Rambo types and then insulted the lot of us.

You are one of the most hostile people I've had the displeasure of communicating with on this and the MyBB forums. You come in, insult people for not sharing your opinions, show no respect for anyone else's opinions, and then expect people not to react in kind? Maybe if you tried to tone down the naked hostility a bit, people would respond better to you?