Is eSport a real sport?

[Tom]

[MENTION=6662]bradbear117[/MENTION] I do hear what you are saying, and you do make some sense...

But lets look a little deeper into this. Take the Olympic games for Example. Do you know what the criteria are for accepting something as an "event" at the Olympics are? The first step is to have the International Olympic Committee to recognize something as a sport. Once that has been done it then gains International Sports Federation status. From their the "sport" needs to be practiced by Men in a minimum of 70 countries world wide, and woman, 40 countries world wide. The "sport" must also add value and appeal to spectators of the games. And then probably the most important rule, bans on purely ‘‘mind sports'' and sports dependent on mechanical propulsion. There have been a few "motor racing" sports at the Olympics like power boat racing that have since been removed.

So judging the above could gaming be an Olympic sport? Not if some consider it a purely "mind sport"?

Then to make it even more difficult. What Games, fall under a competitive "eSports" genre? Obviously guys will jump to say "First person shooters" Like CS, COD, Battlefield! What about "RTS" like Starcraft? arguably one of the biggest games world wide? Then what about a game like Hearthstone? Is it to similar to Chess in a "mind sport" sense?

I think the biggest thing with having Gaming recognized as a sport is the multitude of "sub categories" you would need to create to get some form of governance over which games fall where. And do you have a "Counter Strike Sport" and a "Call of Duty Sport" or do they all fall under "FPS"? And if they do is the game chosen at random?

I could go on for ages about this... But i think you will all get my drift...

 

[bradbear117]

There have been many golfers that are overweight, unfit, smoking, drinking "athletes" playing the sport professionally. There are also quite a few rugby props that are grossly overweight and pretty much can't play a match out for the full 80 minutes. Also, look at the physicality of many all-star American Football "athletes", specifically the line defenders. They are big guys, with weight loss and fitness not high on their list of priorities. Some cricketers have also sported more than just baby fat while playing professionally.

There are many sport disciplines that can still be competed by the big, fat, unfit guys and girls. if they have enough sports acumen and talent. Yes, physical health help make some sportsmen better than others, but it's not the defining characteristic that classifies them as "athletes"

Do I think esports is a "real" sport, no, most certainly not.

The definition of sport has it's foundation in the ability of individuals showing that they are faster, stronger, or more talented than another person. This competitiveness of the human race has been settled since the dawn of time through various physical activities. As these activities grow in popularity, various rules was added to structure these activities into different "sports". That is where sport has originated, and I don't believe that esports falls within this criteria of classification. Much like chess

BUT....

I do believe esports must be classified under a new type of sports definition. The current definition is too broad and ambiguous to clearly state whether or not esports should be considered as a sport.

As [MENTION=13244]Tom[/MENTION] stated, esports is more a type of mind sports, where physical power, speed of talent has little to no effect on whether or not a person can perform at a professional level. Here I see activities like chess also fall within.

The problem with ambiguously stating that any activity done competitively that is based on dexterity, intellectual ability and tactical thinking opens up a slew of other activities to be just as much a "sport" as what esport people what their profession to be. For example, if chess and esports are a sport, why can't Monopoly, 30 Seconds, Charades, or any other board game also be seen as a sport? They have the same profile of abilities as esports, so surely they also have the right to be called sports? How about Memory Games, Rubix's Cube Championships or even Professional Sudoku? Surely these have just as much a chance to be a "real sport" if esports can be considered...

So no, esports is not a sport as the current definition stands. It's a new kind of sport, one that is a sport of the mind, rather than the physical dominance of one individual or team over another.

I actually agree, I dont see it as a true sport either. Same with racing I guess, it is not a true sport it is motorsport and so gaming is E-sport.

 

[DieGrootHammer]

Thank you very much for your input bud.
I agree with you to a certain extent.

Chess, you do not need quicker reflexes of your hand and better coordination.
You can practice the whole game in your mind. If that makes sense. You do not have to sit hours and hours repetitively practicing something over and over.

eSport "athletes have gaming houses. Where they basically have 8-5 "jobs" playing games and practicing.
They must intellectually work on strats as well as physically improve their reaction times as well as the hand to eye coordination.

I am a bodybuilder/Gymnast that goes to lans to compete and understand both worlds very well.

Maybe creating a new genre of sport is a good idea. But it's won't be that easy. Because how many categories of sports will there be then? Every second person with a strange hobby will want it made an official sport.
And if there could be a new category of sports for esport I definitely don't think a Mental Sport fits the bill

Changing the classification of sport is possible, but esports is going about it all wrong. People are using the incorrect info to try and justify it as a legit sport. Time spent within an activity is not the sole domain of sports. So you cannot say that because so much time is spent on practicing for esports makes it a sport. I can assure you, Grandmaster Chess players don't have any other jobs other than playing chess for 8-10 hours per day, and no, they cannot simply play the game in their head. That's only a party trick for the highly intelligent. Real chess players in the real world practice their ass off to become great in their activity. Photographers spend a huge amount of time and effort into learning how to take perfect pictures, and they need lightning reflexes to take that perfect shot, yet no-one thinks of photography as a sport. Time spent master an activity does not equate to it being a sport.

Then there is the other use of information, mainly viewership and money...

In Conjunction to my previous statement. Not Rugby though, but probably even a bigger sport
View attachment 20701

The 2014 Super Bowl was watched by an estimated 111.5 million people, but eSports viewership has doubled over the last year. In January, League of Legends creator Riot Games announced that the game has 67 million monthly users (worldwide). For comparison, an estimated 24 million play basketball in the United States, and less than 9 million people play football.

Twitch.tv, the leading video game platform used by professional gamers and companies like Riot to stream competitions, has become the fourth-leading website in peak internet traffic in the United States, ahead of Facebook. According to Variety, YouTube is looking to purchase Twitch for $1 billion.

...as you stated right here. Number of viewers, or money within the discipline does not help the argument that esports is a legit sport. Firstly, The world wide viewing of LoLis compared to the viewing of sports predominately only available in USA, so the comparison can't be made. Rather compare a LoL World Championship to another World Championship of a different kind.

Even with those comparisons made, it has no bearing as to if esports should be a sport. The argument of "we have so much viewers, we have so much money, make us a sport" will never change the definition of a sport.

The problem is esports wants to be seen as a sport, which is the wrong approach. Nobody is saying that any professional esports individual is not highly skilled and completely dedicated to the activity. That is not only the right of sports people to say at all.

Like I said, esports won't be seen as a sport as the definition currently stands. View on esports will only change once people start realizing that esports is a new, different kind of sport, one that cannot be defined by normal convention. Only then will people start looking at esport in the light it's supposed to be. It's not an easy thing, but debates like this one helps a lot.

 

[bradbear117]

[MENTION=6662]bradbear117[/MENTION] I do hear what you are saying, and you do make some sense...

But lets look a little deeper into this. Take the Olympic games for Example. Do you know what the criteria are for accepting something as an "event" at the Olympics are? The first step is to have the International Olympic Committee to recognize something as a sport. Once that has been done it then gains International Sports Federation status. From their the "sport" needs to be practiced by Men in a minimum of 70 countries world wide, and woman, 40 countries world wide. The "sport" must also add value and appeal to spectators of the games. And then probably the most important rule, bans on purely ‘‘mind sports'' and sports dependent on mechanical propulsion. There have been a few "motor racing" sports at the Olympics like power boat racing that have since been removed.

So judging the above could gaming be an Olympic sport? Not if some consider it a purely "mind sport"?

Then to make it even more difficult. What Games, fall under a competitive "eSports" genre? Obviously guys will jump to say "First person shooters" Like CS, COD, Battlefield! What about "RTS" like Starcraft? arguably one of the biggest games world wide? Then what about a game like Hearthstone? Is it to similar to Chess in a "mind sport" sense?

I think the biggest thing with having Gaming recognized as a sport is the multitude of "sub categories" you would need to create to get some form of governance over which games fall where. And do you have a "Counter Strike Sport" and a "Call of Duty Sport" or do they all fall under "FPS"? And if they do is the game chosen at random?

I could go on for ages about this... But i think you will all get my drift...

Did you know that the IOC does not view surfing as a sport either? Surfers have been trying to get surfing included for decades.
http://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/12213-surfing-included-in-the-tokyo-2020-olympic-games

Only now is it being considered so perhaps gaming will eventually one day be included.

Then it will be comfortably labeled as a sport.

Its going to happen I reckon.

 

[Tom]

[MENTION=9789]DieGrootHammer[/MENTION] fantastic comment, very well spelled out, and i do tend to agree. I think creating the eSports "tag" was very clever... I think there is already a clear division being formed between a Sport and an eSport. And I think what Blizzard are doing with their competitive games is fantastic. Creating a yearly Blizcon tournament where the best of the best meet to face off...

Every second person with a strange hobby will want it made an official sport.
And if there could be a new category of sports for esport I definitely don't think a Mental Sport fits the bill

This is completely incorrect. The whole reason we are having this discussion is because of the huge following eSports had garnered in the last few years... What makes us even have this discussion? The Huge following that eSports has. If this many people want to actively participate and watch something, its going to grab attention. its not like every small "event" could gather this much steam...

 

[Tom]

Did you know that the IOC does not view surfing as a sport either? Surfers have been trying to get surfing included for decades.
http://www.surfertoday.com/surfing/12213-surfing-included-in-the-tokyo-2020-olympic-games

Only now is it being considered so perhaps gaming will eventually one day be included.

Then it will be comfortably labeled as a sport.

Its going to happen I reckon.

Look in my opinion having a panel of people decide what should or shouldn't be a sport is fucking retarded... There need to be stricter requirements put in place to make the definitions more clear... And I do think what [MENTION=9789]DieGrootHammer[/MENTION] has said is correct, we will see changes to the terms and possibly even a new "definition" and new categories for gaming...

 

[Flex]

[MENTION=6662]bradbear117[/MENTION] I do hear what you are saying, and you do make some sense...

But lets look a little deeper into this. Take the Olympic games for Example. Do you know what the criteria are for accepting something as an "event" at the Olympics are? The first step is to have the International Olympic Committee to recognize something as a sport. Once that has been done it then gains International Sports Federation status. From their the "sport" needs to be practiced by Men in a minimum of 70 countries world wide, and woman, 40 countries world wide. The "sport" must also add value and appeal to spectators of the games. And then probably the most important rule, bans on purely ‘‘mind sports'' and sports dependent on mechanical propulsion. There have been a few "motor racing" sports at the Olympics like power boat racing that have since been removed.

So judging the above could gaming be an Olympic sport? Not if some consider it a purely "mind sport"?

Then to make it even more difficult. What Games, fall under a competitive "eSports" genre? Obviously guys will jump to say "First person shooters" Like CS, COD, Battlefield! What about "RTS" like Starcraft? arguably one of the biggest games world wide? Then what about a game like Hearthstone? Is it to similar to Chess in a "mind sport" sense?

I think the biggest thing with having Gaming recognized as a sport is the multitude of "sub categories" you would need to create to get some form of governance over which games fall where. And do you have a "Counter Strike Sport" and a "Call of Duty Sport" or do they all fall under "FPS"? And if they do is the game chosen at random?

I could go on for ages about this... But i think you will all get my drift...

eSports is actually very strong onto it's way to Becoming an Olympic Sport!
http://esports.inquirer.net/4377/esports-now-recognized-as-2nd-level-olympic-sport

Changing the classification of sport is possible, but esports is going about it all wrong. People are using the incorrect info to try and justify it as a legit sport. Time spent within an activity is not the sole domain of sports. So you cannot say that because so much time is spent on practicing for esports makes it a sport. I can assure you, Grandmaster Chess players don't have any other jobs other than playing chess for 8-10 hours per day, and no, they cannot simply play the game in their head. That's only a party trick for the highly intelligent. Real chess players in the real world practice their ass off to become great in their activity. Photographers spend a huge amount of time and effort into learning how to take perfect pictures, and they need lightning reflexes to take that perfect shot, yet no-one thinks of photography as a sport. Time spent master an activity does not equate to it being a sport.

Then there is the other use of information, mainly viewership and money...



...as you stated right here. Number of viewers, or money within the discipline does not help the argument that esports is a legit sport. Firstly, The world wide viewing of LoLis compared to the viewing of sports predominately only available in USA, so the comparison can't be made. Rather compare a LoL World Championship to another World Championship of a different kind.

Even with those comparisons made, it has no bearing as to if esports should be a sport. The argument of "we have so much viewers, we have so much money, make us a sport" will never change the definition of a sport.

The problem is esports wants to be seen as a sport, which is the wrong approach. Nobody is saying that any professional esports individual is not highly skilled and completely dedicated to the activity. That is not only the right of sports people to say at all.

Like I said, esports won't be seen as a sport as the definition currently stands. View on esports will only change once people start realizing that esports is a new, different kind of sport, one that cannot be defined by normal convention. Only then will people start looking at esport in the light it's supposed to be. It's not an easy thing, but debates like this one helps a lot.

Okay, on your example of photography. Photography is art, and interpreted by people in different ways and judge by different criteria. So that is not valid example at all of the practices and training of a sport as you summed it up.

Money definitely does make a sport. It does however help. Unfortunately money does make the world go round.
This is not a simple as looking at a definition of the word sport. If so, here is one of the first definition of Sport i could find

"to take pleasure, to amuse oneself," from Old French desporter, deporter "to divert, amuse, please, play" (see disport). Restricted sense of "amuse oneself by active exercise in open air or taking part in some game" is from late 15c. Meaning "to wear" is from 1778. Related: Sported; sporting."

So it a few years that definition should be changed as well don't you think?

[MENTION=9789]DieGrootHammer[/MENTION] fantastic comment, very well spelled out, and i do tend to agree. I think creating the eSports "tag" was very clever... I think there is already a clear division being formed between a Sport and an eSport. And I think what Blizzard are doing with their competitive games is fantastic. Creating a yearly Blizcon tournament where the best of the best meet to face off...



This is completely incorrect. The whole reason we are having this discussion is because of the huge following eSports had garnered in the last few years... What makes us even have this discussion? The Huge following that eSports has. If this many people want to actively participate and watch something, its going to grab attention. its not like every small "event" could gather this much steam...

I am just stating in regards to the criteria of a sport. Not the following linked to the sport