Kickstarter Not Built for Ouya Failure

OmegaFenix

OmegaFenix

The Legendary Troll Hunter
Kickstarter advises people to use "internet street smarts" when deciding which projects to back.


It started as a question about the Ouya, but the conversation soon ended up in uncharted country. The question was simple enough; if Ouya never materialized, would backers of Ouya's very successful Kickstarter campaign get their money back? Ouya wasn't sure, but said that the matter was ultimately a question of Kickstarter policy and not Ouya's call to make. And that is where the train went off the rails, as Kickstarter's founder Yancey Strickler admitted that there was no policy in place for Kickstarter failures, let alone refunds.


"You know, that would be new ground," said Strickler. "I don't know. I mean, no, I don't think that we would. But certainly, the kind of thing you're talking about is not a bridge that has been crossed yet. Someday it will. And you know, I think if something did go awry, it would be ... it wouldn't be my favorite day." It certainly wouldn't; and if you had been one of those who, say, plunked down $10,000 or more - $10,000 was the top tier Ouya pledge level - on a dud, it wouldn't be your favorite day either.


Kickstarter's FAQ is worth consulting. "It is the responsibility of the project creator to fulfill the promises of their project," it says, but adds "Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project ... If something sounds too good to be true, it very well may be." Kickstarter's final piece of advice is to "use your internet street smarts." Meanwhile Kickstarter's Terms of Service are somewhat less fluffy: "The Company does not guarantee that any Content will be made available through the Service. The Company has no obligation to monitor the Service or Content ... Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer's request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfil the reward." In the case of a campaign like Ouya, where the console was part of the reward for those who pledged $95 or more, presumably this translates to 'anyone whose reward package includes a console is entitled to a refund if no console is forthcoming,' But as Kickstarter has no means of facilitating this process it will be up to the goodwill and resources of the Project Creator, which may or may not be able to meet refund demands. In the event of fraud - internet street smarts sometimes aren't enough, after all - it would seem backers will be left out of pocket.


Whether or not Ouya becomes Kickstarter's first high profile failure doesn't really matter. What matters is that one of these days a major Kickstarter project will get funding and then implode; demands for repayment will follow. Strickler's least favorite day will have arrived, and what happens after that will probably determine whether Kickstarter retains its reputation as a trusted crowdfunder or vanishes like the works of Ozymandias.
Click to expand...

Source: The Escapist

Food for thought.
 
I don't believe Kickstarter should have to bare responsibility for failures, that's not part of the service. They are just there to link creators up with funders. If the creators project fails it should be the creators responsibility to reimburse the funders, if that were even possible. Although to be honest except in cases of fraud I don't even feel you should get a refund on a failed project as long there was truly an effort to create the product. If someone took all the funds and really tried hard to make a game or whatever but just couldn't succeed there really shouldn't be an obligation for repayment.

The thing with Kickstarter is that you aren't buying a product you are buying into a product, and just like the real world sometimes buying into something can mean you lose out in the end.

So yeah it would suck if you spent $10k on a $100 console and didn't get a console but at the same time if you spent that kind of money it was never about the actual product. Failures will happen and that should just be part of the system, a system which evolves and matures to accept such eventualities and learns from them.
 
Yep, basically you're investing in the project and like any sensible investor you've gotta weigh up the risks versus the benefits and know that not all investments guarantee returns.
 
I agree, I don't think it should be Kickstarter's responsibility. That's not part of their business, anyway. They saw a business opportunity where independent projects needed funding from investors, and this is a very simple way for multiple parties to buy equity in a business. If that business fails, the investors lose their money. It's no different to any other investor in a company. Kickstarter can't be held liable.
 
I also ran that through my mind; Kickstarter is just providing the platform for these projects to attract investors and backers.
However, that said, I would still feel very angry if I gave a project tons of cash, and then have it fail. It's easy to see it logically from the sidelines, but people always turn into monsters when money gets involved.

After seeing all these successes on Kickstarter, I'm sure some Nigerian is already scheming a huge scam. Watch your backs!
 
While I agree that Kickstarted shouldn't be held responsible and that just like any other investment its a gamble I do think, and I've said it before, that when this (kickstarting) bubble finally does burst its going to go sideways fast. I think we are giving people too much credit, looks at the amounts of fan rage levied against commercially released games this year, products that the users only purchased. lawsuits, petitions, refund demands etc. Now imagine for a second what will happen when Ouya, for example, turns out to be a dud. The developer has used all the funds to try and make the thing but failed and has no funds to refund to people who put down their money for it. Sure there will be those that go "well its was a gamble from the start" but you are also going to have those that grab their torches and pitchforks and march on mass vying for blood. Whether it happens with Ouya or something else it is going to happen. My question is what happens after? Personally I think alot of the glamour of crowd funding will be washed away and joe public will be alot less likely to put down his/her hard earned $$$ & until the first crowd funded titles hit Im not sure whether that will be a good or bad thing.

I see the reverse has already happened, a developer who passed his target found that one of his 10K pledged was a dud....

That’s exactly what happened to Warbird Games, whose stop-motion based adventure exceeded its funding goal of $56,000 by an impressive eight thousand bucks. Except, it turns out, one $10k pledge never existed at all. So now the indie studio is asking for donations via its site to make up the gap.

You can’t help but imagine this is something that is going to happen too often. When you make a Kickstarter pledge, it’s exactly that. Using Amazon’s system, donors essentially set up a delayed payment, that doesn’t come out of accounts until the Kickstarter is successful. Which means people can pledge huge sums of money they don’t have, which won’t be revealed until the Kickstarter is complete, payments bounce, enquiries are made, and eventual failure to honour the pledge becomes a certainty. That’s what followed on for Necronauts’ lead developer, Stacy Davidson, who explains;


“After the exhilaration of passing our goal by almost $10k, I was expecting to spend the next few days getting ready to start production on the project. Instead, I spent them frantically trying to find out what was going on with the donation, whether we’d even get the other funds and glued to email for any news.”


It’s not especially unusual for a project to start taking Paypal donations post-Kickstarter, but in Warbird’s case it’s slightly more important to them that they plug the gap, and they’re doing that here. But it does raise an extremely important issue for those Kickstartering to be aware of, and reveals a very significant flaw in the whole crowd funding model.
Click to expand...

Source
 
But hold on, I read the other day that Ouya is still going strong, even some high profile companies are backing it by jumping on the bandwagon.... How is this now a failure :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
TBlaar said:
But hold on, I read the other day that Ouya is still going strong, even some high profile companies are backing it by jumping on the bandwagon.... How is this now a failure???
Click to expand...

No no, its not, not yet anyways (yes I am still critical and sceptical of it), the question was asked and since Ouya is the most successful kickstarter project yet, with something like $93 Mill raised, what would happen if (when) it goes tits up.
 
Some people will grab their torch and pitchforks for sure, but as the system matures people will realize that failure is part of the system and act accordingly. Maybe that means they won't just throw money at every half-baked idea that 'might be good' or maybe they will force creators to be more thorough and diligent in their presentation. Either way I think it will be good for the crowd funding scene as a whole.
 
Funders are well aware of the risks involved when contributing to a Kickstarter project.
By backing those projects you agree that you really have no recourse on the outcome of a project, no matter what you invested.

I can't imagine how messy having a few thousand backers seeking legal action against you could get.
 
Personally I always felt that Kickstarter is a prettier version of begging. I'm not keen on it. Also I've had a bad feeling about this Ouya thing, I see Gizmondo written all over it.

Time will tell.
 
Well OUYA hit their target many times over. If they just reached their goal.. the feasability of the project could always be in question due to bad planning.. but hitting their goal so many times over they just have to succeed.. and they can even take the time and research to make it even better.

I'm very excited about it, think it's a great concept and don't foresee any shortfalls.

I think Kickstarter is a great idea.. what's wrong with unknown projects getting backed by hundreds of backers? It's a great concept.
My only problem with Kickstarter is their site has discoverability issues in it's design. It seems hard to actually find random projects. On their home page they show you popular projects or staff picks.. instead of giving a bit of randomness to what the home page displays. Thus the staff picks and more popular projects keep getting exposure and more backers..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top