Obsidian hopes digital distribution "stabs used game market in the heart"

I created the same thread on my new college forum (Link) which has some people from inside the industry and people trying to get into the industry and got some interesting feedback.

Here are the two posts:

MattB said:
I think our blogger DannyP made a post about this yesterday at some point.


I personally would like to see an end to the majority of th eused game market. On one hand I don't want to kill off people's ability to purchase old/classic games, but we can do without the buy>play>return within 48hr turnstyle type trading.
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MattyWS said:
There should be a set time that games can be shelved in stores as pre-owned. A bit like how a movie comes out in cinema first then after a while moves to DVD.
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I take quite a bit of offense to games you buy which you can never sell. Technically that isn't a "buy" transaction at all then, but rather a "lease" transaction. If they want to incorporate a model where you never really own the game, you should also be able to play it until you are tired and then give it back to them after only paying a certain amount of the full cost.
 
Wyzak said:
I take quite a bit of offense to games you buy which you can never sell. Technically that isn't a "buy" transaction at all then, but rather a "lease" transaction. If they want to incorporate a model where you never really own the game, you should also be able to play it until you are tired and then give it back to them after only paying a certain amount of the full cost.
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If you sold it and the devs/publishers got a cut im sure they wouldn't mind. As it stands the retailer makes pure profit. I've traded something at BT, they give me say R50 for it, and then a few days later I see my copy of game X on the pre-owned stand for R199. Thats 300% profit...
 
OmegaFenix said:
If you sold it and the devs/publishers got a cut im sure they wouldn't mind. As it stands the retailer makes pure profit. I've traded something at BT, they give me say R50 for it, and then a few days later I see my copy of game X on the pre-owned stand for R199. Thats 300% profit...
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They already got a cut from me purchasing it in the first place. How much do you think it cost to develop COD MW3? They made $1b in a week. Damn, it must be hard being a game development house!!!

You agreed to the sale of R50, nobody stops you from trying to sell it yourself for more. Instead of being able to get R50 for it, you will now get nothing. Win?!
 
I'm all for digital distribution.

What I can't stand is game makers who treat their customers like they are the enemy:
"stabs the used game market in the heart"
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"actively fight" pre-owned sales
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This is the type of attitude that results in DRM that hurts legit customers & doesn't even get noticed by pirates.

The Joker said:
you'll never see them drop the prices of games, even on a system like Cloud gaming,
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Steam stats seem to show that as the discount increases, the total revenue collected increases.
 
Wyzak said:
They already got a cut from me purchasing it in the first place. How much do you think it cost to develop COD MW3? They made $1b in a week. Damn, it must be hard being a game development house!!!

You agreed to the sale of R50, nobody stops you from trying to sell it yourself for more. Instead of being able to get R50 for it, you will now get nothing. Win?!
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Why shouldn't they get a cut everytime it is sold? It is their IP, their blood, sweat and tears poured into a game. Their late nights at work, away from their families. Why should they lose out on 5 to 10 mil in sales just so little Timmy can play new release Y the same time as the "cool" kids without having to pay top dollar?
Rememberer that juicy $1b doesn't fall smack into Infinity Wards lap. Activision (who owns the IP) takes the most. Then you have to take into account thinks like Marketing Costs, Salaries of studio employees for the period the game was in development. So yes they made $1b, but its also the first game to break that barrier in a week. While personally I wish MW3 hadn't made that much $$$ im sure to people who worked on it and now get a nice fat bonus will be glad. Also MW2 has a $200 - $300mil dev cost and that was what a year or 2 ago, im sure MW3 had one close if not over the $500mil mark.

I dunno about you but to me R50 is nothing. Id rather hold onto the game and refer back to it later when Im looking for ideas or to see what worked and what didn't.
 
HavocXphere said:
I'm all for digital distribution.

What I can't stand is game makers who treat their customers like they are the enemy:


This is the type of attitude that results in DRM that hurts legit customers & doesn't even get noticed by pirates.


Steam stats seem to show that as the discount increases, the total revenue collected increases.
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Agreed, this dudes choice of words do leave alot to be desired.
 
OmegaFenix said:
Why shouldn't they get a cut everytime it is sold? It is their IP, their blood, sweat and tears poured into a game. Their late nights at work, away from their families. Why should they lose out on 5 to 10 mil in sales just so little Timmy can play new release Y the same time as the "cool" kids without having to pay top dollar?
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Little Timmy won't be able to play the game the same time as the "cool" kids because he will have to wait for the other people to be tired of the game and decide to sell it. This could take years if its a decent game, or days if its a load of crap. This actually allows little Timmy to play games which he wouldn't normally be able to afford because not everybody can afford to pay R500-R600 for a brand new release. They are limiting the number of people who can afford their games.

Yes to me R50 isn't much as well. But if I buy something I should be able to sell it again. If I lease it, I should be able to return it earlier and get some form of money back. They can't have the best of both worlds, and one of these days some big legal firm is going to cause them a whole lot of hurt.

Personally I don't rush out to buy games the moment they become available. I have a certain amount that I am willing to spend on things that I want, and I will only purchase it once it hits that level.
 
Wyzak said:
Little Timmy won't be able to play the game the same time as the "cool" kids because he will have to wait for the other people to be tired of the game and decide to sell it. This could take years if its a decent game, or days if its a load of crap. This actually allows little Timmy to play games which he wouldn't normally be able to afford because not everybody can afford to pay R500-R600 for a brand new release. They are limiting the number of people who can afford their games.

Yes to me R50 isn't much as well. But if I buy something I should be able to sell it again. If I lease it, I should be able to return it earlier and get some form of money back. They can't have the best of both worlds, and one of these days some big legal firm is going to cause them a whole lot of hurt.

Personally I don't rush out to buy games the moment they become available. I have a certain amount that I am willing to spend on things that I want, and I will only purchase it once it hits that level.
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In SA it may not be a big issue but here (London) there is a very quick turn around for games. I've seen copies of Halo Anniversary, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, even MW3 on sale in the Pre-owned section with in 3 or so days since its release.
 
Omega i dont think it hurts sales as much as they make out, people buy second hand games cause they cant afford the new one. If you only have R300 and the game is R600 at release how can you just get R600 to get it? You will simply go without. The second hand market just spreads the game more. If anything, its giving the guy money back so can then go and buy a new release. Games are over priced. Pricing is what causes piracy and second hand markets. Yes yes if you cant afford the hobby get a new is what you will say, but i say if they lowered their prices they would have more sales and get more money.

Also i dont think MW3 cost 500 million to make, its 3/4 MW2 so Infinity Ward were on a years vacation:P
 
OmegaFenix said:
In SA it may not be a big issue but here (London) there is a very quick turn around for games. I've seen copies of Halo Anniversary, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, even MW3 on sale in the Pre-owned section with in 3 or so days since its release.
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Gaming houses shouldn't stereotype countries.
 
OmegaFenix said:
Not to be an Ass (oh who am I kidding) the SA market isn't even a blip on their radar.

Game Sales by country region Notice how Africa, not South Africa but the entire freaking continent, isn't even on that list....
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Most likely that is because they just don't report sales from Africa, I've seen some lists where SA is about as big as some of the smaller European countries like Greece and Ireland.
 
Wyzak said:
It's that type of attitude that encourages piracy.
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There is no such thing as encouraging piracy. Theft of an item, any item, should never be considered. It is a cheap wayout for the weak.

What I meant in my original post is that you saying publishers should stereotype countries is a bit silly. Publishers look at the large cash cows and then set a course. With the SA game market being tiny its pre-owned sales market is even smaller, few stores in SA do trade ins, here almost every entertainment retailer sells pre-owned titles. So what may not hurt them in the SA market hurts them when looking at larger market sector.
 
I feel that this debate in itself is pretty unique simply because you cannot compare it to any other form of second hand trade where an item normally loses value. Things being digital and all, makes it a bit difficult.

Either way, when you buy a game. You don't own the game itself. You own a license to play the game. When you sell a game, you're essentially selling the license, therefore you cannot play it again.

OmegaFenix said:
Why shouldn't they get a cut everytime it is sold? It is their IP, their blood, sweat and tears poured into a game. Their late nights at work, away from their families. Why should they lose out on 5 to 10 mil in sales just so little Timmy can play new release Y the same time as the "cool" kids without having to pay top dollar?
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No additional cost has gone to the dev/publisher when it comes to making the second hand transaction. That's completely between the seller and the buyer. Whether the buyer is going to exploit it like BTGames does, is a different story. Either way, there's no additional cost going towards the manufacturer, how on earth can they honestly expect any piece of the money that takes place between a private transaction between two parties which they are not involved with.

I really understand their lament, but their stance of "wanting a piece of the second hand pie", just strikes me as them being overtly greedy.
 
Strife I posted a link to a video called Project $10, go check it out. If it were up to me that how I would handle it.
 
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