PC Master Racism - is it out of hand?
- Thread starter Tinman
- Start date
Patriarch
New member
This article once again misses the point entirely...
I (and others like me) have no problem with consoles. We know they have their place and some games do even work better with console controllers (platformers or racing games). The problem is that PC games are becoming more and more like console games, which is the actual source of the rage. They are different markets and different approaches. What works for one won't work for the other.
It's not like the article claims, that we want games to be only made for the elite few, the problem is that the industry isn't catering to the elite few at all. We don't mind if there are 50 popamole cover shooters or a hundred romance simulators out there if that's what people want, but give us something decent as well. It's much like I don't have anything against for example, women's clothes. There is a huge market for it out there (women), but I'd be pretty pissed off if there suddenly I couldn't buy any more underpants, and people kept telling me it's because there are more women now. Or if for example you like good wine and suddenly all you can find in shops are the boxes or silver bags (papsakke).
The writer clearly doesn't understand the meaning of challenging gameplay. Something where you have to bash buttons and have Jedi reflexes is precisely the crap we don't want. We want something where you need to think and plan a bit, and where you can be creative. TV games are about fast action, plug in and go, sitting in a living room with friends and/or family. Which can be fun, and for some people that's what games are about. By all means, whatever floats your boat.
The article also mentions the bit about the controls, which I agree with, most games these days don't use that many buttons. But that is precisely the problem, games are designed for consoles and then those same buttons just remapped onto a keyboard. We like having shortcuts to things, that's the point. That's why people complain about dumbed-down controls. The problem lies not with the TV game consoles themselves, or the people playing the games, but with the publishers/marketers who are too lazy to invest time and money into making separate games. And Inb4 "it's all piracy's fault". Piracy has always been there, and I'm pretty sure it's been worse in the past, especially in SA, where we didn't have access to all the games the legal way we do now, nor had proper uncapped internet to use digital distribution.
I (and others like me) have no problem with consoles. We know they have their place and some games do even work better with console controllers (platformers or racing games). The problem is that PC games are becoming more and more like console games, which is the actual source of the rage. They are different markets and different approaches. What works for one won't work for the other.
It's not like the article claims, that we want games to be only made for the elite few, the problem is that the industry isn't catering to the elite few at all. We don't mind if there are 50 popamole cover shooters or a hundred romance simulators out there if that's what people want, but give us something decent as well. It's much like I don't have anything against for example, women's clothes. There is a huge market for it out there (women), but I'd be pretty pissed off if there suddenly I couldn't buy any more underpants, and people kept telling me it's because there are more women now. Or if for example you like good wine and suddenly all you can find in shops are the boxes or silver bags (papsakke).
The writer clearly doesn't understand the meaning of challenging gameplay. Something where you have to bash buttons and have Jedi reflexes is precisely the crap we don't want. We want something where you need to think and plan a bit, and where you can be creative. TV games are about fast action, plug in and go, sitting in a living room with friends and/or family. Which can be fun, and for some people that's what games are about. By all means, whatever floats your boat.
The article also mentions the bit about the controls, which I agree with, most games these days don't use that many buttons. But that is precisely the problem, games are designed for consoles and then those same buttons just remapped onto a keyboard. We like having shortcuts to things, that's the point. That's why people complain about dumbed-down controls. The problem lies not with the TV game consoles themselves, or the people playing the games, but with the publishers/marketers who are too lazy to invest time and money into making separate games. And Inb4 "it's all piracy's fault". Piracy has always been there, and I'm pretty sure it's been worse in the past, especially in SA, where we didn't have access to all the games the legal way we do now, nor had proper uncapped internet to use digital distribution.
HavocXphere
New member
Admit it, that is exactly what you want. Evoke a response...
Play the ball not the man...Lame tactics. "racism" "elitism" " These gamers are so blind" etc
You really think counting buttons is a legitimate way of solving the controller vs kybd/mouse issue? Seriously? Not doubt car reviews should then involve counting the wheels on cars to compare them...
*cough* Steam *cough*
This isn't even a question anymore. BF3 will run smaller maps on consoles & the Crytek boss made it quite clear that developing for both simultaneously limits things because they have to either code to the lowest common denominator:
"[The] PC is easily a generation ahead right now. With 360 and PS3, we believe the quality of the games beyond Crysis 2 and other CryEngine developments will be pretty much limited to what their creative expressions is, what the content is. You won't be able to squeeze more juice from these rocks."
Even worse, all the other legitimate complaints were conveniently ignored:
Higher pings due to no dedicated servers.
Strategy games are difficult (but not impossible) to play without a mouse.
Low configurability on consoles.
Shitty console ports to PC where the limitations get ported to PC (e.g. no ~ console access, FOV, graphics with that blurry shiny look etc)
The whole paid DLC culture.
The games for consoles cost more per title.
Also, lol at the assortment of strawmen in that article:
Consoles are for kids.
The games are too easy
Controllers dumb down the gameplay.
And finally, was that article written on a console? No....Didn't think so.
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OGBuzz
New member
Indeed all things pertaining to consoles are infact NOT the doom of gaming
I'll give a quick example:
Lets go back to World War 2 when America dropped the atom BOMB in heroshima, whose to blame for this?
Ther okes who dropped the bomb the Okes who created the bomb or the Okes that decided im sure we all know is the okes who decided "we must drop this bomb" how does this have relation to consoles?
We have 3 parties, the console gamer, the console created and the console developer(aka the ppl who decide to make a game for the console)
And herein lies the problem and its been touched on many times before.
This issue really falls soley on the developer and the "unfeasible" approach to do a seperate dev of the PC, the PC has and will always have special needs, there is no denying this, what many PC gamers want is a game that for starters works, then actually 'feels' like a PC game made for the PC.
This whole Console Port stuff really only began to shine through in MW2 it started with P2P on PC, what were a Primarily PC gaming dev company thinking, was their coding that good that it could cater for many different kinds of hardware configs ontop of an already varying internet connection speed, NO, thats far from what it really was. it actually was absolute lazyness on thier part plain in sight, no denying this one.
Phase 2 queue 3ARC, ah these BIMBO's and misfits, what did they do? well uh they gave us dedicated servers right? yeah sure but you had to pay if youw anted to have a server so ofcourse someone was going to have to fork out the cash to GS.com which MANY did, do you think that 3ARC didnt get some of that cash? ITS THE ONLY REASON WHY THEY GAVE THE DEDICATED OPTION TO PC PLAYERS, they saw a money making scheme. Ah but finally they release a "buggered" game which in all intents are purposes has damaged the future COD's, well done 3ARC.
This is just one of many examples, its not the consoles, its not the console players its the lazy ass dev's....
SO IMO if your a lazy dev GTFO
shadowfox
Anime Junkie
Horrible, horrible article this time around, sorry. Although if it was written for the sole purpose of getting a rise out of people, then I guess it succeeded admirably.
But frankly - the whole PC vs console thing has been run into the ground already, so I don't see the need to bring it up; and, it really only looks at things from one perspective - the poor console player who has to deal with PC gamers and their raging e-boners. Sadly, the reverse is also true - PC have their elitist crew, and consoles have their hard-core fanboys as well.
I suggest just tossing both groups into a pit and let them sort their differences with whatever they can find to swing with (including each other). Myself - I find the whole argument boring, I don't want to be drawn into it - I just play whatever takes my fancy on a particular day.
Prediction for the day: this thread is going to turn into a whole PC vs console hate-rage debate. Have fun.
But frankly - the whole PC vs console thing has been run into the ground already, so I don't see the need to bring it up; and, it really only looks at things from one perspective - the poor console player who has to deal with PC gamers and their raging e-boners. Sadly, the reverse is also true - PC have their elitist crew, and consoles have their hard-core fanboys as well.
I suggest just tossing both groups into a pit and let them sort their differences with whatever they can find to swing with (including each other). Myself - I find the whole argument boring, I don't want to be drawn into it - I just play whatever takes my fancy on a particular day.
Prediction for the day: this thread is going to turn into a whole PC vs console hate-rage debate. Have fun.
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I posted this in the comments and would like to place this here as well:
This is just an opinion and in no way is my intent to offend anyone. I would like to provide a counter argument to this article even though I agree with most of what you say. Both sides of this argument contain people that are unable to articulate their arguments. I would even put myself in the group that say "console games are killing the industry" but I do feel that the argument stems from a valid problem. PC gamers feel exploited.
Console games are great. I loved God of War. I played the first two on my PS2. I bought my PS3 for the pure purpose of playing God of War 3. I loved games like Baldur’s Gate 2 on the PS2 and enjoyed Uncharted 1 and 2. Darksiders is one of my favourite games. Focusing on console development makes business sense. The more people playing the games the more copies you sell. Developing a game for console and developing a game for PC design (to name but two of the many things that the game developer needs to be aware of) are two different things. Doing interface design and input design for the two platforms requires different approaches. Because the industry focuses on console development, those games are developed correctly. The game is created specifically for that platform. Then the developers go "Well, we have the console part covered, lets port the game to the PC".
They do NOT go back and change their development approach. The do not focus on interface design and input as they did for the console version of the game. The do a find and replace for the icons named "X button" and replace it with "E button" (keep in mind, I am oversimplifying). If the developer intends to release the game for the PC as well, then they need to be sure that they create the same quality product than they did for the console version. Releasing a sub par version of the game just to "get that section of the market" is why PC gamers are moaning. Most of the times this result in a game play experience that is not even comparable with what the developers intended, but they release it anyway. The PC gamer pays for his/her game and find that his/her game play experience does not equal the experience of the console gamer. I think this is why PC gamers moaning about games became what people refer to as PC gaming elitism. It stems from a real problem.
This is not the only problem and in no way do I mean that all “PC elitist†are right for moaning about random things. I just mean to show different perspective to this issue.
This is just an opinion and in no way is my intent to offend anyone. I would like to provide a counter argument to this article even though I agree with most of what you say. Both sides of this argument contain people that are unable to articulate their arguments. I would even put myself in the group that say "console games are killing the industry" but I do feel that the argument stems from a valid problem. PC gamers feel exploited.
Console games are great. I loved God of War. I played the first two on my PS2. I bought my PS3 for the pure purpose of playing God of War 3. I loved games like Baldur’s Gate 2 on the PS2 and enjoyed Uncharted 1 and 2. Darksiders is one of my favourite games. Focusing on console development makes business sense. The more people playing the games the more copies you sell. Developing a game for console and developing a game for PC design (to name but two of the many things that the game developer needs to be aware of) are two different things. Doing interface design and input design for the two platforms requires different approaches. Because the industry focuses on console development, those games are developed correctly. The game is created specifically for that platform. Then the developers go "Well, we have the console part covered, lets port the game to the PC".
They do NOT go back and change their development approach. The do not focus on interface design and input as they did for the console version of the game. The do a find and replace for the icons named "X button" and replace it with "E button" (keep in mind, I am oversimplifying). If the developer intends to release the game for the PC as well, then they need to be sure that they create the same quality product than they did for the console version. Releasing a sub par version of the game just to "get that section of the market" is why PC gamers are moaning. Most of the times this result in a game play experience that is not even comparable with what the developers intended, but they release it anyway. The PC gamer pays for his/her game and find that his/her game play experience does not equal the experience of the console gamer. I think this is why PC gamers moaning about games became what people refer to as PC gaming elitism. It stems from a real problem.
This is not the only problem and in no way do I mean that all “PC elitist†are right for moaning about random things. I just mean to show different perspective to this issue.
Patriarch
New member
Really now? Are you sure of your facts there?...
Patriarch
New member
Dark Alliance != BG2, by any stretch of the imagination.
So another one of these finds its way into the various gaming forums. Do some people really have that much time on their hands that they are STILL going on about this.
As many of the people have already pointed out, PC gamers are annoyed at the rubbish ports... DA2, Dungeon Siege 3 just to name two. If you going to make an RPG and market it as such, particularly following its beginings with games like DA:O, DS 1&2, keep it truthful to the fanbase that bought your games in the first place and gave you the money to make another title. Not screw them over...
As for the keyboard/mouse issue, 16 keys doesnt nearly cover whats needed with a true RPG. Hell I normally have at least that in hotkeys just for weapon/armours never mind spells and consumables. There just isnt a good way to port true RPG to Console.
All that said, I have PC, PS3 and xbox360 (sadly at one point I even had Wii) and play across all 3 platforms. Ive tried time and time again to get into FPS on console, but for me its just a no go. Same said with RPG's. What annoys me even more is how they are now ruining RPG's and making them action/adventure games so they can bring it to console as an RPG. Yes EA and Bioware, I mean you! However nothing rocks quite like a racing game on console, adventure games like Fable, unchartered etc. Someone will more than likely chirp up "Fable is an RPG", my response to you is go play balders gate and experience a true RPG before open your yapper.
As many of the people have already pointed out, PC gamers are annoyed at the rubbish ports... DA2, Dungeon Siege 3 just to name two. If you going to make an RPG and market it as such, particularly following its beginings with games like DA:O, DS 1&2, keep it truthful to the fanbase that bought your games in the first place and gave you the money to make another title. Not screw them over...
As for the keyboard/mouse issue, 16 keys doesnt nearly cover whats needed with a true RPG. Hell I normally have at least that in hotkeys just for weapon/armours never mind spells and consumables. There just isnt a good way to port true RPG to Console.
All that said, I have PC, PS3 and xbox360 (sadly at one point I even had Wii) and play across all 3 platforms. Ive tried time and time again to get into FPS on console, but for me its just a no go. Same said with RPG's. What annoys me even more is how they are now ruining RPG's and making them action/adventure games so they can bring it to console as an RPG. Yes EA and Bioware, I mean you! However nothing rocks quite like a racing game on console, adventure games like Fable, unchartered etc. Someone will more than likely chirp up "Fable is an RPG", my response to you is go play balders gate and experience a true RPG before open your yapper.
EnzoMatrix
New member
I played Gears of War on PC and enjoyed it immensly... sure they had some issues with the software but the game was quite enjoyable.
I am really sad they didn't make GOW 2 or GOW 3 for the PC since they did it for GOW 1
Really looked awesome on a PC
I am really sad they didn't make GOW 2 or GOW 3 for the PC since they did it for GOW 1
Really looked awesome on a PC
Lycanthrope
New member
Yup. Rubbish article is rubbish.
You've said it better than I ever could. +Karmaficashunz!
Lupus
New member
Why is it that the PC guys always come out and say the PC is stronger, no sh*t it will be, it has about 5 years worth of advancements on the console. The console is a fixed asset for the period you have it, you pay a slight premium on games now (R100 or so) but you know the game will run. Also the developers are going to go for the easy money and that is being able to release games on 3 different platforms covering all bases, does this lead to lazy developing hell yeah, does it retract from gaming, in some regards yes.
But honestly in the 24 years I've had as a gamer, this has probably been one of the best era of gaming, there is choice, back in the earlier days your choice was limited to maybe one or two big releases a year. Now we have a lot of big releases, with popularity comes money, with this also comes indie developers who've created some awesome games, the guys who did Sins etc... At the end of the day gaming is evolving, harping on about your PC port being "dumbed" down is not going to change that, perhaps look for PC only games and go for that.
But honestly in the 24 years I've had as a gamer, this has probably been one of the best era of gaming, there is choice, back in the earlier days your choice was limited to maybe one or two big releases a year. Now we have a lot of big releases, with popularity comes money, with this also comes indie developers who've created some awesome games, the guys who did Sins etc... At the end of the day gaming is evolving, harping on about your PC port being "dumbed" down is not going to change that, perhaps look for PC only games and go for that.
tpex
New member
Ironically in the Kinect's case, only on PC has it been hacked for for use with games that don't resemble Nintendo Wii games
Moving on, what bums me out as a PC gamer is how games are developed for Console, then released for console, then ported to PC months later, which means (In most cases) meh graphics, weird controls, no dedicated servers, and lack of mod support.
to get back to controls, WTF is with this weird mapping thats done for menus in to PC Ports WTF would I change menus with shift or ctrl????
Alan
New member
Lycanthrope
New member
Give him a proper thanks with Karma!
Karma: The only proper way to appreciate a person's opinion
(Or get that twisted sense of self-satisfaction by removing some >:3)And, to celebrate, I give you the Karma song:
Because it doesn't need to make sense.