PC Master Racism - is it out of hand?

Lycanthrope said:
That it was :)

Well, Bullfrog made it, Lionhead consists of old Bullfrog employees, so they're not actually far off at all.

And, just to put some ire into the fire of debate, Populous: The Beginning also came out on Playstation :D
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mmmm reminds me of the Red Alert port I saw for PS2
 
tehNihilist said:
I think people are missing the point in some instances.

Consoles themselves, as hardware, are not the problem, it is the people making the games. The people behind the games have become either lazy, or have realized it is not always feasible to get it working as best it can on PC (even both). Also a bad port is a bad port not because a console is at fault, like Dungeon Siege III (that game blows regardless).

I agree that games have become overly simplified in many instances, but at the same time that does not mean it is easy. I also agree that complexity is missing from games these days, and once again, that does not make it necessarily hard. Complexity does need to come back but it need not be a PC exclusive idea, once again pointing to the developers / publishers / general gamers as the catalyst. Console games CAN be complex.

Fact is the money is being put into what makes sense for the industry whether it suites a certain demographic or not. While I do not always agree with its sentiments, it is largely democracy (or capitalism) hard at work (which I again do not always agree with).

There certainly are two sides to this and I believe console fanbois are just as foolish, but recently I have been noticing almost an insurgence of blind PC gamers anger directed at consoles which I believe is foolish.

Oh btw, if you did not know, I am Myles Gray :p
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The paragraph in bold, I agree 100% with.

It's not that I disagree with the article in its entirety - you made some good and valid points there. And I DO believe the PC fanboys have been granted a fair bit of ammo in recent weeks by some developers either saying or implying that consoles are holding gaming back. Which is a little sad, but as soon as the next gen of consoles come out, it's going to be exactly the other way around again - console kids are going to be bragging about how superior their bricks are, and then we've gone full circle again. And I yawn.

It's just, like I also said, a tired argument - all I need now is the next piracy discussion to pop up. Should be in time for Christmas.
 
shadowfox said:
The paragraph in bold, I agree 100% with.

It's not that I disagree with the article in its entirety - you made some good and valid points there. And I DO believe the PC fanboys have been granted a fair bit of ammo in recent weeks by some developers either saying or implying that consoles are holding gaming back. Which is a little sad, but as soon as the next gen of consoles come out, it's going to be exactly the other way around again - console kids are going to be bragging about how superior their bricks are, and then we've gone full circle again. And I yawn.

It's just, like I also said, a tired argument - all I need now is the next piracy discussion to pop up. Should be in time for Christmas.
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Um, no. No console has ever topped a top end PC of the same time. And even if there was three days that one outperformed a PC in opening a jpeg, it was only for three days. As much as it is the one thing all console fanboys use as ammo to validate consoles, it is also the one thing that severely limits consoles after a year or three in terms of game advancements.

As for controls, look at Bad Company 2. Awesome game and lots of fun, but why the extremely limited controllability?? Especially when flying the choppers. Why no support for joysticks? Because consoles don't support them, that's why. Now I'm not bitching against consoles for this. It is simply a fact. Consoles limit PC games in certain aspects. Controls being one of them.

I'm a PC nut and firmly believe all FPS belong on PC only. It is simply the way the genre was meant to be played. Until consoles develop the same control system for FPS, I'm not even going to look. And if you are so convinced I'm wrong, come plug your controller into a PC and take on someone using a keyboard & mouse combo and let me know who wins. How often have you heard of online console bitching because some player has rigged a K+M and is kicking their ass? I wonder why?

Having said all that, I also own a PS3 and love it. Titles like Batman: Arkham Asylum, Uncharted 1 & 2, Heavy Rain, LA Noire, RDR and more I just can not imagine having enjoyed more on a PC. Those kind of games are made for console and belong there only. And not just the controls. The whole perspective. Playing it on my bigger screened TV with full Sony 7.1 surround sound simply makes all the difference. I'm not big into racing titles, but can certainly see the appeal. Then something like Mortal Kombat as well just wouldn't be done any justice on a PC.

There are certainly pros and cons to both platforms and I have a dream that maybe one day Elitist fanbois of each platform will one day admit this too and come to realise it is not the fault of the platforms for the inadequacies they get so worked up about, but rather the fault of lazy and greedy publishers and developers, but I suspect that my dream will be just that, a dream.
 
Patriarch said:
I (and others like me) have no problem with consoles.
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That's rich coming from the person who whines about how stupid console gamers are and that they are too retarded to read properly etc in the comments sections below articles on the main site.

I, for one, agree that PC Master Racism is getting out of hand. Go to any gaming forum nowadays, and it's the same thing all over. A handful of elitists blaming consoles and console gamers in order to hide the fact that they simply won't like a game, no matter what. Honestly, if people can blame The Witcher 2 for being 'consolized', then you have to know that somewhere, something is rotten, and it's not the games.
 
Graal said:
That's rich coming from the person who whines about how stupid console gamers are and that they are too retarded to read properly etc in the comments sections below articles on the main site.

I, for one, agree that PC Master Racism is getting out of hand. Go to any gaming forum nowadays, and it's the same thing all over. A handful of elitists blaming consoles and console gamers in order to hide the fact that they simply won't like a game, no matter what. Honestly, if people can blame The Witcher 2 for being 'consolized', then you have to know that somewhere, something is rotten, and it's not the games.
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Did you play the game? Did you see the inventory/codex/journal/quest screens?

The gameplay was done well, the screens... not so much. Hell, I'm amazed how many people let that slide and called it the pinnacle of what PC gaming should be and yet... erm... it had "console" written all over it because (and they said it themselves) they made it with porting to the 360/PS3 in mind.
 
Lycanthrope said:
Did you play the game? Did you see the inventory/codex/journal/quest screens?

The gameplay was done well, the screens... not so much. Hell, I'm amazed how many people let that slide and called it the pinnacle of what PC gaming should be and yet... erm... it had "console" written all over it because (and they said it themselves) they made it with porting to the 360/PS3 in mind.
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I'm surprised you can be so angry because the UI was done in a different way than what is the norm with PC games. And honestly, the UI didn't bother me at all. I'm not about to bin one of the best RPGs I've played in years because of the UI. That's the type of irrational thought patterns the elitists that the columnist is referring to follows. If the game is excellent, why worry about the UI. I just don't get it.

Here's my entry for consolization on Urban Dictionary regarding the matter:

Consolization
A term invented by rabid PC enthusiasts to describe any game that isn't Baldur's Gate 2 and doesn't require spread-sheet style character management or which uses an accessible interface for gameplay. If the gameplay is easy to get into, PC enthusiasts will consider it rubbish and consolized, no matter how difficult the actual game might be.

Anybody not in agreement on a game being 'consolized' is considered inferior and will never be allowed into said PC enthusiast's battlestati-, err basement.

Example:
Clearly that game suffers from consolization, because even though it has won awards for most innovative gameplay, most involving story and best AI in a game, it displays a little text that tells you to press 'E' every time you want to open a door.
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Okay, I wrote it more tongue-in-cheek, but what's frightening is a lot of people actually think that way.
 
Graal said:
I'm surprised you can be so angry because the UI was done in a different way than what is the norm with PC games. And honestly, the UI didn't bother me at all. I'm not about to bin one of the best RPGs I've played in years because of the UI. That's the type of irrational thought patterns the elitists that the columnist is referring to follows. If the game is excellent, why worry about the UI. I just don't get it.
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Angry? Not at all--I was disappointed but that was the extent of it.

It felt untidy and chaotic: there was no option to filter junk items, it no longer said if a book/recipe was read/owned/learnt and it was just completely bloated.

That has nothing to do with elitism. It's a fact.

Also... "Why worry about it?" It's unpolished, untidy and badly thought-out whichever side of the fence you sit on. Consider it constructive criticism. The consolification of the UI is otherwise just largely evident in the bloat.
 
DenSweeP said:
Why has it been years since you've played such a great RPG? What & when was the previous game?
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I must also say, Witcher 2 was the best RPG I've played since Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, which was kak long ago. This was the first one I could finish without getting bored. But I have to admit the UI did detract a lot from the game for me. The reason I never used potions, or made potions is because the UI was so "deurmekaar" that I wasn't even going to try and figure it out.
 
to0kenZA said:
I must also say, Witcher 2 was the best RPG I've played since Baldur's Gate 1 & 2...
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Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura, Planescape, Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2, Jade Empire, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Neverwinter Nights, Witcher 1, Gothic 1 - 3, Risen, Fallout 1 -2/NV, etc?

I by no means think Witcher 2 was a bad game (in fact I think it was excellent), however, there have been plenty of brilliant RPGs between Witcher 2 and Baldur's Gate >.<'

I'ma light a fire under your arse if you haven't played the games I've listed :mad:
 
Lycanthrope said:
Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura, Planescape, Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2, Jade Empire, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Neverwinter Nights, Witcher 1, Gothic 1 - 3, Risen, Fallout 1 -2/NV, etc?

I by no means think Witcher 2 was a bad game (in fact I think it was excellent), however, there have been plenty of brilliant RPGs between Witcher 2 and Baldur's Gate >.<'

I'ma light a fire under your arse if you haven't played the games I've listed :mad:
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I've played almost all, wait yes, all of those and it wasn't nearly as cool. I don't know why though...Nothing ever beat Baldur's game in terms of fantasy roleplay games again..Witcher 2 was a bit short though, but the game was really compelling and I loved the characters.
 
As this is faaaaaaaar from a new argument, I'm going to post my now-standard response:

me said:
Simply put, we're all just gamers, and arguing why you think one platform is better than another is like you arguing why you think cheddar is better than mozzarella: it's always going to be a subjective opinion, and regardless of what happens we're both going to end up eating cheese.

I've accepted the fact that there are always going to be different types of cheese in the world, so rather than bicker about it I choose to keep quiet and just enjoy my cheddar.
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An interesting point that I heard recently though (from a PC gamer to boot) was that PC games are responsible for the decline in quality of gaming in general because devs are so focused on pumping out titles with sexy graphics that storyline, gameplay innovation, etc. are all left behind.

Space Quest, anyone?
 
to0kenZA said:
I've played almost all, wait yes, all of those and it wasn't nearly as cool. I don't know why though...Nothing ever beat Baldur's game in terms of fantasy roleplay games again..Witcher 2 was a bit short though, but the game was really compelling and I loved the characters.
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Hmmm... I guess it's each to their own :p

Planescape: Torment was, to me, the best RPG of all time and (for me at least), nothing has ever come close to it in terms of story, characters, world, immersion, depth and atmosphere. If any game out there is "perfect" then to me, it would be Planescape.
 
RustPuppet said:
As this is faaaaaaaar from a new argument, I'm going to post my now-standard response:



An interesting point that I heard recently though (from a PC gamer to boot) was that PC games are responsible for the decline in quality of gaming in general because devs are so focused on pumping out titles with sexy graphics that storyline, gameplay innovation, etc. are all left behind.

Space Quest, anyone?
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Sorry, but the whole point here is that almost all new games are being developed for console and then rehashed/ported to PC. So I fail to see how PC games can be saddled with the label of being responsible.
 
DenSweeP said:
Sorry, but the whole point here is that almost all new games are being developed for console and then rehashed/ported to PC. So I fail to see how PC games can be saddled with the label of being responsible.
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COD
BF
NFS
C&C
DA
ME?

RP does have a point, but yes it's about porting from X to Y without proper rewrite.
 
RustPuppet said:
As this is faaaaaaaar from a new argument, I'm going to post my now-standard response:



An interesting point that I heard recently though (from a PC gamer to boot) was that PC games are responsible for the decline in quality of gaming in general because devs are so focused on pumping out titles with sexy graphics that storyline, gameplay innovation, etc. are all left behind.

Space Quest, anyone?
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I actually just think gamers in general are to blame. If the devs just focused on actual gameplay/story/whatever else actually made a game good, and spent less time on making it look uber realistic (and moaning because one or other platform can't deal with it), we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But the gamers want, nay, demand eye candy. And they'll be damned if they settle for anything less.
 
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