PC Master Racism - is it out of hand?

[DarthSWNT]

people forget what new versions of consoles are like... the developers have to spend a lot more time on something completely new and most console devs find it much harder to produce for a console in the first part of its life.

A console needs to be mature for it to really see its potential and by then the hardware is very far behind that of PC hardware.

An argument in there said that PC games need high end machines... most low end gpus will handle anti aliasing better than consoles. Even at lower settings still look better than most console games. You don't need to run games at full settings but at least the choice exists.

AA on consoles is very poor as the hardware is not available... running 4xAA at 1080 will just not work without running into problems.

That said, some games just work better on console-type setups (you can use console controllers on a PC) such as racing games, rpgs, etc. But These work great on PC as well, so why not develop for the faster platform then cut away for the console platform, why do we have games that used to be for PC such as FPSes now being ported to PC badly.

PC gamers don't want "still looks great" gaming... that is just pussy'ing out and letting mediocre development take place.

I agree that it is a preference about which you would choose, but console gamers would go mad if they suddenly had to play games dev'ed for a 486.

 

[Dan]

Sorry, but the whole point here is that almost all new games are being developed for console and then rehashed/ported to PC.

So a game is automatically bad if it was ported from console?

And why point the finger at console gamers when it's the developer's fault? Todd Hollenshead from iD sums it up perfectly:

For id's upcoming game Rage, Hollenshead said that the focus was on getting the controls right with a controller. Once it had cracked that, he explained, id had moved on to the keyboard and mouse controls. The reason behind this is pretty simple: Hollenshead expects the majority of Rage sales - anywhere from two thirds to three quarters - to be on consoles, so the PS3 and Xbox 360 had taken priority. "We had the discussions early on with Rage about what platforms we were going to go on," he said. "Two-thirds of our sales are going to be on console, we're going to make sure we have that gameplay feel tight first."

"In game development, you have to tailor your gameplay to where you expect people to play it on," he added.

 

[Necuno]

So a game is automatically bad if it was ported from console?

And why point the finger at console gamers when it's the developer's fault? Todd Hollenshead from iD sums it up perfectly:

For id's upcoming game Rage, Hollenshead said that the focus was on getting the controls right with a controller. Once it had cracked that, he explained, id had moved on to the keyboard and mouse controls. The reason behind this is pretty simple: Hollenshead expects the majority of Rage sales - anywhere from two thirds to three quarters - to be on consoles, so the PS3 and Xbox 360 had taken priority. "We had the discussions early on with Rage about what platforms we were going to go on," he said. "Two-thirds of our sales are going to be on console, we're going to make sure we have that gameplay feel tight first."

"In game development, you have to tailor your gameplay to where you expect people to play it on," he added.

The end of the PC desktop is nigh

 

[shadowfox]

The end of the PC desktop is nigh

/gets flame-thrower
/aims at Pr⊕phet

 

[Necuno]

/gets flame-thrower
/aims at Pr⊕phet

Lulz @ p⊕rted flame-fl⊕wer.

 

[Graal]

Angry? Not at all--I was disappointed but that was the extent of it.

It felt untidy and chaotic: there was no option to filter junk items, it no longer said if a book/recipe was read/owned/learnt and it was just completely bloated.

That has nothing to do with elitism. It's a fact.

Also... "Why worry about it?" It's unpolished, untidy and badly thought-out whichever side of the fence you sit on. Consider it constructive criticism. The consolification of the UI is otherwise just largely evident in the bloat.

I'll admit, it was untidy and could have been done better, but I fail to see this 'consolification' you talk about. In fact, I'd be pissed off if I had to navigate that inventory screen on a controller.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I'll admit, it was untidy and could have been done better, but I fail to see this 'consolification' you talk about. In fact, I'd be pissed off if I had to navigate that inventory screen on a controller.

Compare it to the previous game's inventory screen, heck, compare it to any inventory screen used by a cRPG and it should be clear--it was made with large font and a controller in mind. The inventory filters being at the top of the screen is where it's most evident--it's likely that a player would switch between them with the R1/L1 buttons. Reading quests and journals is also done with large white text on black backgrounds for better legibility from a distance. It is a stark contrast to the purely cRPG UI used in the first game.

Perhaps my stance on this topic of PC Elitism isn't clear (I try to avoid these bitch-fights at all costs) but while I am a PC gamer, I am first and foremost a gamer. tehNihilist said it best:

I agree that games have become overly simplified in many instances, but at the same time that does not mean it is easy. I also agree that complexity is missing from games these days, and once again, that does not make it necessarily hard. Complexity does need to come back but it need not be a PC exclusive idea, once again pointing to the developers / publishers / general gamers as the catalyst. Console games CAN be complex.

Complexity is something lacking in games, mechanically and environmentally. Most games these days suffer from what I like to think of as one-click syndrome (i.e. it being a click away from the entire concept of an interactive experience being automated for you). My personal belief that the the more platforms a game is on, the more people it can reach and the more people games can reach, the better.

However, that doesn't give developers an excuse to cut corners, something blatantly evident in what CDProjekt RED did with Witcher 2's UI on PC. Imagine if the first game had to be on console and gamers were expected to navigate THAT inventory screen with a controller--it would be the same outrage. A shoddy job is a shoddy job which, in the case of Witcher 2, CDProjekt obviously got away with because the rest of the experience more than made up for it.

Witcher 2's UI wasn't really any different, in essence, to the abominable co-op camera tethering in Dungeon Siege 3--frustrating enough to warrant forgetting a second play-through.

A stupid mechanic can ruin a game, it doesn't matter what platform it is but the moment you try to make a mechanic that works best on one platform try to work on multiple platforms, you're cutting corners and doing a shoddy job.

You might be pissed if you had to navigate that inventory screen on a controller but it has "controller" written all over it. Hell, just plug in a controller and see for yourself.

 

[tpex]

And why point the finger at console gamers when it's the developer's fault? Todd Hollenshead from iD sums it up perfectly:

For id's upcoming game Rage, Hollenshead said that the focus was on getting the controls right with a controller. Once it had cracked that, he explained, id had moved on to the keyboard and mouse controls. The reason behind this is pretty simple: Hollenshead expects the majority of Rage sales - anywhere from two thirds to three quarters - to be on consoles, so the PS3 and Xbox 360 had taken priority. "We had the discussions early on with Rage about what platforms we were going to go on," he said. "Two-thirds of our sales are going to be on console, we're going to make sure we have that gameplay feel tight first."

"In game development, you have to tailor your gameplay to where you expect people to play it on," he added.

Wow... after Doom and Quake, now the market is console... kinda shocked really

 

[shadowfox]

Lulz @ p⊕rted flame-fl⊕wer.

Yeah ... the controls are messed up. Gimme my mouse&keyboard so I can flame you properly

 

[OGBuzz]

People are saying things like "its cause PC's want higher graphics that they have to cut corners etc and leave out good gameplay"

First off these Dev's are doing me no favours, us gamers are not "lucky" to have what we have, seriously if you dont make a proper game because of this and that with many many excuses, im inclined to tell them to GTFO since they want my money and business, if they cant meet the requirements....then they wont meet my money

Simply fact, they decided to make the game so they will either do a proper job or as i say GTFO cause you're in the wrong industry then.

 

[Graal]

The inventory filters being at the top of the screen is where it's most evident--it's likely that a player would switch between them with the R1/L1 buttons.

So it's aimed at consoles because the items in your inventory is placed into categories and can be switched between easily using a controller? I actually prefer using an inventory system that allows me to use categories, instead of having to navigate through endless lists of items. Unless I get a grid-based system like Morrowind had.

Reading quests and journals is also done with large white text on black backgrounds for better legibility from a distance. It is a stark contrast to the purely cRPG UI used in the first game.

This just sounds like nitpicking. I had no trouble with this when I played the game. Hell, I didn't even think anything of it until you mentioned it, and even afetr you did, I still don't really think anything of it. What does it matter if it can be read from a distance?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to pick apart your arguments or anything, I just find it strange and fascinating that something like the UI can bug you so much, when, to me, it didn't make a difference to the game at all. I play most my games, and I usually never notice the UI. To me, the UI is nothing more than tools the developers give to help us play the game, and as long as it isn't buggy, I don't even give it a second thought.

 

[to0kenZA]

People are saying things like "its cause PC's want higher graphics that they have to cut corners etc and leave out good gameplay"

First off these Dev's are doing me no favours, us gamers are not "lucky" to have what we have, seriously if you dont make a proper game because of this and that with many many excuses, im inclined to tell them to GTFO since they want my money and business, if they cant meet the requirements....then they wont meet my money

Simply fact, they decided to make the game so they will either do a proper job or as i say GTFO cause you're in the wrong industry then.

FFS, thank you! Finally someone that agrees with me. Geez. We're paying for digital entertainment and we're not going to buy your product if it's shit! Lucky my ass. So now we gunna say fisherman are lucky because they have cool rods? Geez, those fishermen are so whiny, I can't believe they complain about having too little rings on their rod...

 

[to0kenZA]

So it's aimed at consoles because the items in your inventory is placed into categories and can be switched between easily using a controller? I actually prefer using an inventory system that allows me to use categories, instead of having to navigate through endless lists of items. Unless I get a grid-based system like Morrowind had.

This just sounds like nitpicking. I had no trouble with this when I played the game. Hell, I didn't even think anything of it until you mentioned it, and even afetr you did, I still don't really think anything of it. What does it matter if it can be read from a distance?

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to pick apart your arguments or anything, I just find it strange and fascinating that something like the UI can bug you so much, when, to me, it didn't make a difference to the game at all. I play most my games, and I usually never notice the UI. To me, the UI is nothing more than tools the developers give to help us play the game, and as long as it isn't buggy, I don't even give it a second thought.

You just have to take note that some of these okes have been around for a while, in the world of gaming. They've played many games and played games that have almost been perfected throughout the years, and now the developers come and shit all over the winning formula. Naturally people are going to complain, especially the long-time fans of the genre.

 

[OGBuzz]

FFS, thank you! Finally someone that agrees with me. Geez. We're paying for digital entertainment and we're not going to buy your product if it's shit! Lucky my ass. So now we gunna say fisherman are lucky because they have cool rods? Geez, those fishermen are so whiny, I can't believe they complain about having too little rings on their rod...

LOL exactly!

IF you don't have the resources nor the man power to make a game and sell.

Its all to common in movies, hectic CGI but kaaaak story lines and acting.....

If you compromise then you lose money, simple and of course your drag your own name through the mud

 

[to0kenZA]

LOL exactly!

IF you don't have the resources nor the man power to make a game and sell.

Its all to common in movies, hectic CGI but kaaaak story lines and acting.....

If you compromise then you lose money, simple and of course your drag your own name through the mud

So seeing as this discussion has veered off into the "It's games that are kak these days topic" I think it's pretty safe to say that it's not PC nor consoles that's making games kak. It's the publishers and lazy developers, amirite?

This PC master race BS is just another delusion that some people have to:
1) Pick a fight with other gamers
2) Have a frequent stroking of their e-peen

There is no such thing as a PC master race, although some people might think so.

 

[Duke Dude]

Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura, Planescape, Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2, Jade Empire, Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines, Neverwinter Nights, Witcher 1, Gothic 1 - 3, Risen, Fallout 1 -2/NV, etc?

I by no means think Witcher 2 was a bad game (in fact I think it was excellent), however, there have been plenty of brilliant RPGs between Witcher 2 and Baldur's Gate >.<'

I'ma light a fire under your arse if you haven't played the games I've listed

Sorry I had to quote this, Gothic?? Risen?? Seriously?? I thought they were the biggest pieces of crap!

 

[Lycanthrope]

Sorry I had to quote this, Gothic?? Risen?? Seriously?? I thought they were the biggest pieces of crap!

What do you base that conclusion on?

 

[Lycanthrope]

So it's aimed at consoles because the items in your inventory is placed into categories and can be switched between easily using a controller?

Yup, the layout gives it away.

I actually prefer using an inventory system that allows me to use categories, instead of having to navigate through endless lists of items. Unless I get a grid-based system like Morrowind had.

So do I, however, Witcher 2 is a prime example of it all done in the most clunky manner possible--it was a nightmare to sort through, let alone compare items. On PC a grid-based system (if we're thinking the same thing here, like Diablo's--I mention this because it would be the most obvious to all--or the first Witcher) works best, especially with the option to sort like-items together and, preferably, alphabetically, but I fear I might just be anal on that latter point.

This just sounds like nitpicking. I had no trouble with this when I played the game. Hell, I didn't even think anything of it until you mentioned it, and even afetr you did, I still don't really think anything of it. What does it matter if it can be read from a distance?

Nitpicking? Not at all, I thought it was ugly and aesthetically insulting The previous game had a pretty artistic and colourful journal/inventory. Maybe it's just me, but since I have 20:20 vision, huge fonts on my monitor seem like a waste of space. Had they used different backgrounds depending on the kind of note/journal/recipe such as parchment or a sort of "book" background, I think it would've been fantastic. The lack thereof just made it feel like it was too much hassle and why bother when such a thing would likely have to be removed or rethought on console for a lounge situation (my own assumption on why they didn't do something like that since I feel that white on a black background makes for easy reading). The fact that they designed Witcher 2 with console gaming in mind shows, specifically in the UI. I feel that's the only corner that they cut since gameplay was still sublime.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to pick apart your arguments or anything, I just find it strange and fascinating that something like the UI can bug you so much, when, to me, it didn't make a difference to the game at all. I play most my games, and I usually never notice the UI. To me, the UI is nothing more than tools the developers give to help us play the game, and as long as it isn't buggy, I don't even give it a second thought.

heh... Don't worry about it, pick apart as much as you like I know that it's something that some people would never be bugged about but I guess I'm just one of those people whose neck-hairs easily stand on end. To me it just felt "fat" (bloated ). I love it when added details and motifs are used to convey the feeling of actually having picked up and be reading a book or a piece of parchment, a complex recipe or a hastily scribbled note.

I like details like that in a game.

Also, I'm not saying that they couldn't do all that in a console game (frankly, I don't see why not), but I CAN understand where doing things like that might use up screen space, making it difficult to read/interpret text from a distance and why a developer might decide to scratch the entire idea. After all, why develop separate interfaces when you can save development time and effort by just making one work on multiple platforms.

Meh.... I'm blabbing... I prefer it one way but I don't really MIND it in the way it was done. I think it could've been better and had they developed with PC exclusively in mind, I'm certain it would've been entirely different. I'm sure that when the console version gets released that there will be console gamers feeling the same way--that had they developed exclusively for console, certain aspects would've been entirely different.

Actually, let me put it this way: if ALL multi-platform games were developed as elegantly as Witcher 2, I don't think anyone would have a problem (especially if the biggest criticism is the clunky inventory screen). Unfortunately Witcher 2 is an exception to the norm.

 

[tpex]

gawd why can't I click objects anymore? so annoying

 

[Alan]

So seeing as this discussion has veered off into the "It's games that are kak these days topic" I think it's pretty safe to say that it's not PC nor consoles that's making games kak. It's the publishers and lazy developers, amirite?

.

It's greed. Pure and simple.