Pinetown crash...... :(

I feel sorry for the passengers on the taxis who wern't expecting something like this to happen and give my prayers to their families.
 
Can people stop writing their own stories on what happened, all we know is there was a crash, brakes failed and police are after a homicide charge. What we don't know is if the company was negligent, nor if the driver had worked a double shift or using the wrong brakes.
 
Ike_009 said:
Can people stop writing their own stories on what happened, all we know is there was a crash, brakes failed and police are after a homicide charge. What we don't know is if the company was negligent, nor if the driver had worked a double shift or using the wrong brakes.
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Agreed, it doesn't help making assumptions without knowing any concrete facts.
 
HavocXphere said:
I totally get that your scenario is possible. But so is simple mechanical failure. You can't just arrest someone on the off chance that one of the possible scenarios is reckless.

Maybe the cops known something that isn't in the article. Who knows. All I'm saying is those charges seem mighty sketchy based on what little we know.
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But isn't the point of an arrest to hold the person while the charges are being fully investigated? I'm a complete layman here, but isn't an arrest for culpable homicide the norm in an accident where someone dies?
 
Avatar said:
But isn't the point of an arrest to hold the person while the charges are being fully investigated? I'm a complete layman here, but isn't an arrest for culpable homicide the norm in an accident where someone dies?
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You'd arrest them if there is a reasonable suspicion, not when there is just a possibility.

Say someone get shot. A cop hurries to the scene sees someone flee and arrests the person. Reasonable suspicion. versus: Cop storms your house & arrests you for a murder that happened in brakpan because there is a possibility that you were the shooter (along with 50mil other south africans).

Possibility is just not enough.

The police does tend towards the MO you suggest in fatal car crashes though. How legal that is - i have no idea.
 
Avatar said:
But isn't the point of an arrest to hold the person while the charges are being fully investigated? I'm a complete layman here, but isn't an arrest for culpable homicide the norm in an accident where someone dies?
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Yes, last i checked it's standard procedure for these things. If some idiot runs across the N1 in the middle of the night and he goes through your wind screen, you will be charged with at minimum, manslaughter .
 
Ike_009 said:
Can people stop writing their own stories on what happened, all we know is there was a crash, brakes failed and police are after a homicide charge. What we don't know is if the company was negligent, nor if the driver had worked a double shift or using the wrong brakes.
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Why are we not allowed to speculate on what we think happened? It's human nature and some even label it as "making conversation". Would you prefer a more quiet thread where people only post articles and offer condolences?
 
Hamster said:
Why are we not allowed to speculate on what we think happened? It's human nature and some even label it as "making conversation". Would you prefer a more quiet thread where people only post articles and offer condolences?
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Because this is a case where 27 people died, I don't think it's fair to their families and that of the drivers to jump to conclusions on who to blame and what happened. The other issue I have it isn't speculating, it's people making their own opinions and stating them as fact. It's a tragedy sure but wait until we know the full story before condemning a driver who may or may not have experienced brake failure and thus the control to prevent this accident.

The other fact here is you as the driver are meant to check that it's clear before proceeding through an intersection even if you have a green so those drivers may have been able to prevent the accident also. However I wasn't there so I don't know the story, I saw a very limited view from a dash-cam.
 
HavocXphere said:
You'd arrest them if there is a reasonable suspicion, not when there is just a possibility.

Say someone get shot. A cop hurries to the scene sees someone flee and arrests the person. Reasonable suspicion. versus: Cop storms your house & arrests you for a murder that happened in brakpan because there is a possibility that you were the shooter (along with 50mil other south africans).

Possibility is just not enough.

The police does tend towards the MO you suggest in fatal car crashes though. How legal that is - i have no idea.
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Except in this case there is at least a reasonable suspicion that he is guilty of negligent driving. When you come down a hill in a truck you're supposed to be in the same gear you would be in if you were going up the hill. Have a look at that video again. That truck was definitely not in a low gear. It was doing at least 80 when it ran that crossing.

There is more than enough reason to arrest the guy while charges are filed.
 
Ike_009 said:
Because this is a case where 27 people died, I don't think it's fair to their families and that of the drivers to jump to conclusions on who to blame and what happened. The other issue I have it isn't speculating, it's people making their own opinions and stating them as fact. It's a tragedy sure but wait until we know the full story before condemning a driver who may or may not have experienced brake failure and thus the control to prevent this accident.

The other fact here is you as the driver are meant to check that it's clear before proceeding through an intersection even if you have a green so those drivers may have been able to prevent the accident also. However I wasn't there so I don't know the story, I saw a very limited view from a dash-cam.
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I didn't see any braking from the cam so they definitely never checked or noticed the truck when it went accross.

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Truck Accident.jpg

Was checking the intersection and noticed that if some of the cars were looking right before moving the sign would have obstructed their view of the truck and the curve of the road just enough to not be able to avoid it.
 
You do realise that picture is taken from above a van so eye level inside a car would be below the sign
 
Clive Woofer said:
Except in this case there is at least a reasonable suspicion that he is guilty of negligent driving. When you come down a hill in a truck you're supposed to be in the same gear you would be in if you were going up the hill. Have a look at that video again. That truck was definitely not in a low gear. It was doing at least 80 when it ran that crossing.

There is more than enough reason to arrest the guy while charges are filed.
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Fair enough. I'll gladly concede that point.
 
Ike_009 said:
Because this is a case where 27 people died, I don't think it's fair to their families and that of the drivers to jump to conclusions on who to blame and what happened. The other issue I have it isn't speculating, it's people making their own opinions and stating them as fact. It's a tragedy sure but wait until we know the full story before condemning a driver who may or may not have experienced brake failure and thus the control to prevent this accident.
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Yes, all that is very bad and disrespectful ... on a NEWS SITE or through the media. But here, on a public forum where people post opinions in their own capacity, meh.

So, looking at that video again that truck came past there with an INSANE amount of speed. I know hindsight is 20/20 but you have to wonder what would have happened if he had blown his horn or maybe drove onto the grass or something.

View attachment 6911

From that attachment you can see that it is downhill for quite a distance. Wouldn't he have realised his brakes were shot way ahead of time?
 
This happened 1.9 km from my house. My husband, mother, friends, domestic worker and I use this intersection on a daily basis. That, and the fact that so many people were unnecessarily killed, really affected me. If you travel on the M13 regularly (as MOnk, Mephisto_Helix and I do), you'll realise that there are numerous zones past the Richmond Road off ramp that the driver could've used as a makeshift Arrester Bed if in fact his breaks had failed. Our neighbourhood is having a "Ban The Heavies" march/protest on September 14th. I did enquire as to whether or not a large gathering of people might cause further fender benders (due to rubbernecking) but have been told that local authorities have given it the all-clear and that Metro will be on-site controlling/supervising traffic for the duration.

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Also, he supposedly had minor collisions whilst coming down the hill. Surely, if you were aware of the fact that your brakes had failed, you would have lights flashing and be bashing your hooter like a mad man (unless that wasn't working either ...) Traffic would've noticed the flashing lights or at least heard the hooter going and paused for a moment to see what was potting.
 
BlackSwan said:
This happened 1.9 km from my house. My husband, mother, friends, domestic worker and I use this intersection on a daily basis. That, and the fact that so many people were unnecessarily killed, really affected me. If you travel on the M13 regularly (as MOnk, Mephisto_Helix and I do), you'll realise that there are numerous zones past the Richmond Road off ramp that the driver could've used as a makeshift Arrester Bed if in fact his breaks had failed. Our neighbourhood is having a "Ban The Heavies" march/protest on September 14th. I did enquire as to whether or not a large gathering of people might cause further fender benders (due to rubbernecking) but have been told that local authorities have given it the all-clear and that Metro will be on-site controlling/supervising traffic for the duration.

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Also, he supposedly had minor collisions whilst coming down the hill. Surely, if you were aware of the fact that your brakes had failed, you would have lights flashing and be bashing your hooter like a mad man (unless that wasn't working either ...) Traffic would've noticed the flashing lights or at least heard the hooter going and paused for a moment to see what was potting.
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I too live and work very close to this intersection, ill be there on saturday to join. However we have made many plea's for an arrester bed to be placed where the old nursery used to be. My only thought through this was why he took the turn off, and to agree there are many places for 60-120 ton vehicles to (crash) stop etc along the way, even at St Johns Bridge. Plights to have trucks removed have always fallen on deaf ears on fields hill and it will (hate to say) will remain that way because of the toll route.

Where is the source for the march etc Swan, i would like to take part.
 
That's a very good question. That's a pretty long downhill drive. He should really have noticed his breaks had failed long before he skipped the intersection, so why did he not even try to make people aware that something was amiss? The very first thing I would do if my breaks failed would be to slam down on my hooter.
 
Although my empathy lies mainly with the victims and their families, I couldn't help but feel empathy for the 23 year old driver when I read/saw the article/images of him collapsing after viewing the images of the carnage he is allegedly responsible for in court. The death of 27 people is a pretty hefty burden to bear for hardened soldiers, let alone a 23 year old.
 
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