Piracy - is it a dirty word?

I neither have the time or the inclination to really debate all your carefully made points. If you cut to the chase the majority (my opinion) of pirates have not even considered 1% of your points and never will.
My points are made inclusive of them. I don't necessarily support them but who knows, perhaps one of them will introduce a game they pirated with no intention of buying to someone like me, who will fall in love with it, support it and again ride in to the defence of piracy. I feel the more gamers in the world, the better. If for every four pirates who couldn't give a shit I can find one who does, who I can identify with, then it's a win for the industry and piracy has served my ideal for it.

To Shamrocks point of the publishers/RIA being the real thieves, I recall an old saying - two wrongs don't make a right.

Only one of them is actually irrefutably wrong :p
 
I guess we should all just pirate away then, since it's getting old and all that. Maybe if we ignore something long enough (because it got stale) it will go away?

So we all hope we'll be sitting around a table, having tea, in 10 years time saying "Ah piracy, that old chestnut! *giggle giggle*" ?

Riiight..

Did you miss the (/Sarcasm) part?

Piracy is old hat, its been around for how many years?

All these articles help nothing, they are definately not do anything to deter pirates.
 
Agreed. However:


Any particular reason why not? There were a number of games I was suspicious of, tried and loved and bought. There were also games I didn't buy because I pirated them, they were awful and I was on a tight budget so spent the money on games I did want.

I feel you can get enough info from reading forums with like minded gamers,fan reviews and demo's or even the commercial reviews. If you can't make up your mind from that amount of info then you should wait for the bargain bin imho.
 
Erm... It wasn't intended to offend.


No dude I was being serious, you literally handled every one of my questions perfectly :P
I wasn't saying it in an offended way. It was genuinely a great post. I actually really appreciated it.
 
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This thread has a difference to the others, this one's a bit funnier.

Since the last thread. I've come up with a couple other reasons to keep saying ARRRGG

Why should I pay for something I don't want when I can get what I DO want for free?
Examples:
Assassins Creed 2. Why should I pay to not be able to play the game when I want, how I want, when I can play the game when I want and how I want for nothing?

Modern Warfare 2. Why should I pay to play on a deeply flawed P2P system that lags on the verge of the unplayable and without basic gameplay features such as leaning, when, if I get it off a torrent, I CAN use leaning and get dedicated servers.

Gears Of War. Why should I pay only to not be able to register my game, and than not be able to play it, but when I download it illegally it works flawlessly? (I did buy GOW PC version, and now I'm regretting it deeply)

GTA4. Pretty much the same reason as above.

Any Steam game. Why should I pay for a game, than pay for bandwidth while I wait 2 weeks for the thing to patch up because there is a multiplayer bug I won't be experiencing because I won't be playing multiplayer, and when it IS done dowloading I log off, disconnect my internet, try and log in in offline mode, wait another 2 hours only to have there be some glitch somewhere and I have to go online, and now there is ANOTHER patch, so more bandwidth and 12 more hours of downloading. When Pirating it I can install, paste the cracks, and play.

So what I'm saying is, I can't get what I want when I have to pay, but when I don't pay, I do get what I want.

Now lets look other types of software that gets pirated.
Windows for example.
Why should I pay 3K for win7 ultimate, and I can only reinstall and update it a handfull of times (due to system formatting) before the key is blocked, while when I pirated it, I can install it however many times I want?

Photoshop. Pretty much the same reasons as above.

MS Office. " " " "

WinRar. " " " "

Autodesk. " " " "

Smith Micro. " " " "

If things are going like that, buying software and supporting these trends is a bigger sin than piracy ever could be.
 
/alerts safact of new piracy ring lord....


This thread has a difference to the others, this one's a bit funnier.

Since the last thread. I've come up with a couple other reasons to keep saying ARRRGG

Why should I pay for something I don't want when I can get what I DO want for free?
Examples:
Assassins Creed 2. Why should I pay to not be able to play the game when I want, how I want, when I can play the game when I want and how I want for nothing?

Modern Warfare 2. Why should I pay to play on a deeply flawed P2P system that lags on the verge of the unplayable and without basic gameplay features such as leaning, when, if I get it off a torrent, I CAN use leaning and get dedicated servers.

Gears Of War. Why should I pay only to not be able to register my game, and than not be able to play it, but when I download it illegally it works flawlessly? (I did buy GOW PC version, and now I'm regretting it deeply)

GTA4. Pretty much the same reason as above.

Any Steam game. Why should I pay for a game, than pay for bandwidth while I wait 2 weeks for the thing to patch up because there is a multiplayer bug I won't be experiencing because I won't be playing multiplayer, and when it IS done dowloading I log off, disconnect my internet, try and log in in offline mode, wait another 2 hours only to have there be some glitch somewhere and I have to go online, and now there is ANOTHER patch, so more bandwidth and 12 more hours of downloading. When Pirating it I can install, paste the cracks, and play.

So what I'm saying is, I can't get what I want when I have to pay, but when I don't pay, I do get what I want.

Now lets look other types of software that gets pirated.
Windows for example.
Why should I pay 3K for win7 ultimate, and I can only reinstall and update it a handfull of times (due to system formatting) before the key is blocked, while when I pirated it, I can install it however many times I want?

Photoshop. Pretty much the same reasons as above.

MS Office. " " " "

WinRar. " " " "

Autodesk. " " " "

Smith Micro. " " " "

If things are going like that, buying software and supporting these trends is a bigger sin than piracy ever could be.
 
Raven Gold is the poster child for parasitic self-entitlement. Ironically, he's also the reason we have things like DRM.
 
I pirated a lot and still do for some things but games are all original now. My last XBox was hacked to allow for copies but not anymore.

I like the real deal, original disk with inserts etc. I can also afford them more easily now that in the past so makes sense.
 
I feel you can get enough info from reading forums with like minded gamers,fan reviews and demo's or even the commercial reviews. If you can't make up your mind from that amount of info then you should wait for the bargain bin imho.

Actually, I don't trust other people when discussing opinions of games. If I had to believe forums, you'd think Gothic 3 was the spawn from Satan's loins and something like Titan Quest (which, for the record, I actually bought because of what people were saying about it :eek:) is the most fantastic, holier-than-thou work of art known to mankind. Gothic 3 wasn't perfect, but it wasn't awful either and Titan Quest was certainly nothing to write home about.

There is only one gamer in the whole world whose opinion I completely trust on games and that's my other half's. There are some things our opinions differ on (he loves Minecraft whereas I've never quite cottoned on to the appeal) but for the most part, we feel the same about games.

As for the bargain bin... I don't do "bargain bin." I either go all-out or I go home :p To my absolute shame, I own three budget titles which I can't wait to replace with originals once I find them. I crave getting games on their release dates.

No dude I was being serious, you literally handled every one of my questions perfectly :P
I wasn't saying it in an offended way. It was genuinely a great post. I actually really appreciated it.

Oh :o Um... Thank you very much for your kind words then, they're deeply appreciated :3 Sorry for misinterpreting you.

Why should I pay for something I don't want when I can get what I DO want for free?
Because people who support what you "do" want are the reason you even get to play it and why that developer hasn't gone down.

Examples:
Assassins Creed 2. Why should I pay to not be able to play the game when I want, how I want, when I can play the game when I want and how I want for nothing?
I didn't pirate it or buy it. There was no reason for me to pirate it because I disagreed with the DRM to a point where even pirating it would support Ubisoft's beliefs that DRM is its solution.

I haven't gotten at least two Ubisoft games since they implemented that DRM (Settlers and Assassin's Creed 2, being the only two I can recall).

If you enjoyed it enough to play it, why didn't you buy it THEN pirate it and voice your concerns on the official forums? I sincerely doubt the implementation of the DRM was a choice on the developers' side. Ubisoft (publisher) owns the rights so there's not much that Ubisoft (developer--Montreal, specifically) can do about it. You can support the developer without necessarily supporting the decisions made by the publisher.

Also, Ubisoft has, from what I've heard, gotten rid of DRM for the most part, reducing it just to a check every time you play. I still don't believe this is good enough, so refuse to support them until they issue the mother of all apologies.

Modern Warfare 2. Why should I pay to play on a deeply flawed P2P system that lags on the verge of the unplayable and without basic gameplay features such as leaning, when, if I get it off a torrent, I CAN use leaning and get dedicated servers.

As above, you enjoyed it enough to play it. Crack it after, sure, but support what you enjoy.

Gears Of War. Why should I pay only to not be able to register my game, and than not be able to play it, but when I download it illegally it works flawlessly? (I did buy GOW PC version, and now I'm regretting it deeply)

I've played Gears of War and didn't have a problem registering it (not that I'm saying you're lying). At least you bought it, so no complaints from me here ^.^

GTA4. Pretty much the same reason as above.

Ugh... Don't get me started on GTA4. When I first got it SecuRom took serious issue with my installation of DaemonTools. E-mailing SecuRom, they just send you a file to copy over the original executable. Go SecuRom. Ever since then I started wondering what the point of DRM is if all you need to do is whine over at SecuRom and ta-da, they send you a legal crack to bypass the entire point of the DRM in the first place.

Again, I still bought it and enjoyed it.

Any Steam game. Why should I pay for a game, than pay for bandwidth while I wait 2 weeks for the thing to patch up because there is a multiplayer bug I won't be experiencing because I won't be playing multiplayer, and when it IS done dowloading I log off, disconnect my internet, try and log in in offline mode, wait another 2 hours only to have there be some glitch somewhere and I have to go online, and now there is ANOTHER patch, so more bandwidth and 12 more hours of downloading. When Pirating it I can install, paste the cracks, and play.

I can't stand Steam, but when you do buy a game on Steam, you're paying for a digital copy. Fairly logical, no? Ergo, bandwidth is kind of the key factor in getting it from there to, well, you. If your internet connection isn't up to scratch then you probably shouldn't be using Steam.

So what I'm saying is, I can't get what I want when I have to pay, but when I don't pay, I do get what I want.

This is sort of like the no-voters' mentality: "Why should I vote? It doesn't make a difference anyway."

Fact is that one vote does make a difference. A majority consists of lots and lots of single votes. Similarly a successful game is made up of lots and lots of single purchases. Gaming is a largely successful industry because of lots and lots of single purchases each time a game is released.

If no-one supported the gaming industry, you wouldn't have the luxury of pirating. Every single person you speak to who has bought a game has been the reason you had those games to pirate which you enjoyed. Thank them, otherwise the industry would've gone the way of the betamax.


Now lets look other types of software that gets pirated.
Windows for example.
Why should I pay 3K for win7 ultimate, and I can only reinstall and update it a handfull of times (due to system formatting) before the key is blocked, while when I pirated it, I can install it however many times I want?

Windows 7? It's currently going for R1,074. I bought mine for R1,227 at the time of its release. It's the retail version, so I can format, reinstall, format, reinstall, rinse and repeat all I like. Even with my previous OEM XP, I was able to do that, the only problem was that I had to call up Microsoft and manually activate it after a while, then it was good to go again.

I'm afraid your argument isn't working so well here.

As for Windows Ultimate... well... why? Do you need some secret magical feature the rest of the world doesn't? Something entirely arbitrary which would never be utilised by a home user? Can you name one thing that you need Ultimate for without looking it up? Or is the appeal purely in the black box? Aesthetics FTW.

I'm sorry, but people who buy Ultimate either have money to burn or have really tiny e-peens and need something to brag about.

Photoshop. Pretty much the same reasons as above.
A program intended for commercial use. There are a multitude of freeware equivalents that would satisfy the average Joe's needs. Paint.NET comes to mind.

MS Office. " " " "
A program intended for commercial use. OpenOffice is a freeware (and brilliant) equivalent. Alternatively, if you HAVE to use MS Office (for whatever reason) at home or as a student, is R550 really that much to ask?

WinRar. " " " "
Ever heard of 7zip? Freeware, works like a charm for all archives.

Autodesk. " " " "
Also commercial use, no?

Smith Micro. " " " "
Also intended for... you guessed it, commercial use.

If things are going like that, buying software and supporting these trends is a bigger sin than piracy ever could be.

Disagree. The only real basis of your argument is that you can't seem to differentiate between business/corporate software and software (with fantastic free options) for home (read:non-commercial) use.

I'm afraid I really don't understand your argument. You're a pirate because you're... spiteful?
 
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Respect Ly....you have the patience of a saint!

lol... I recall saying that to you once :D Thanks, Fivel :p

I'm actually enjoying this discussion so far. No-one has damned me to an eternal pit of brimstone and fire yet. That's a damn fine start, methinks :p

Although, admittedly, I think Raven's taking all the heat :D
 
thank god i got my windows 7 via msdn. so i don't have the money burning problem or tiny epeens loool :D :D :D :D

Ya, ya, ya :P

Some of us actually have to pay for our software '>.>

Your MSDN account work-sponsored or do you have a subscription? Never been too sure how that works :3
 
Your MSDN account work-sponsored or do you have a subscription? Never been too sure how that works :3
can't say the msdn subs are cheap, but nice to have if you are .net developer. our company got a employee ms benefit program. as long as you are with the company you can get ms products at discounted pricing.

as for buying games, well i seldom grab them at launch unless it's an AAA i really want like deadspace 2, witcher 2, shogun 2 and so on. i normally wait for bargain bins (cheaper too for my console then) or grab what i want when steam specials hit. no waste there since i've uncapped.

i just wish we had decent HD movies/series ondemand service in south africa...

:edit
getting my witcher 2 via gog. no drm, just the game.
 
lol... I recall saying that to you once :D Thanks, Fivel

I'm actually enjoying this discussion so far. No-one has damned me to an eternal pit of brimstone and fire yet. That's a damn fine start, methinks :p

Although, admittedly, I think Raven's taking all the heat :D

True - I truely respect you carefully considered opinion - I may not always agree with it though :)
 
Oooh, this thread is shaping up to be a bit better than the other...9... >.>. Eh, my view on Piracy: It's a good way to try before you buy, if I like I will get it (once I have the money - being in GR11 isn't exactly lucrative money wise) and if I don't like I won't buy it. Eg, I read awesome reviews on Cities XL 2011 - DLed it - Seemed great at first but then I realised it was actually quite terrible. I won't go into why here, but it was really bad compared to SC4. Anyway, I would have bought it if I thought it was deserving of my money (you don't pay for rotten fruit at the supermarket, why should you pay good money for games?). I view it as a try before buy/cheap source of entertainment. DSTV has hardly anything worth watching these days :(.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention, sometimes it's nice to buy retail, if you get boxed sets you can get more for less. Eg, I got my SC4 and expansion, SCS and expansion, SnapCity (fun little game, like tetris with buildings) and a free spore creature creator for like R200! Bargain! I also love the smell of a new game purchase. The box/plastic just has this nice quality...I think it's the paper and plastic combo...
 
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can't say the msdn subs are cheap, but nice to have if you are .net developer. our company got a employee ms benefit program. as long as you are with the company you can get ms products at discounted pricing.
That's quite snazzy :)

as for buying games, well i seldom grab them at launch unless it's an AAA i really want like deadspace 2, witcher 2, shogun 2 and so on. i normally wait for bargain bins (cheaper too for my console then) or grab what i want when steam specials hit. no waste there since i've uncapped.

Gotcha. I tend to get hyped up for games quite easily and after NEARLY losing out my StarCraft 2 collector's edition, I pre-order like a mofo these days.

i just wish we had decent HD movies/series ondemand service in south africa...
That would be awesome, yes :)

:edit
getting my witcher 2 via gog. no drm, just the game.

You're not getting the CE? O.o'

Are you mad? IT'S FANTASTIC! :STARE:

True - I truely respect you carefully considered opinion - I may not always agree with it though :)

Thank you, Fivel. I know how you feel and I appreciate your stance as well. Hell, I'm all for people who are happy to buy. I think it's mostly that I would like to be understood before being burnt at the stake for coming to piracy's defence.

Like Raven's position, I can't support that at all but I see Raven as the type of pirate who has no intention of ever buying because nothing will ever be exactly how he wants it. So I can't see it as a lost sale because he was never going to buy. To the devs, to the publishers, his stance is actually meaningless because he's no longer their market.

You can only really stand against the things you don't like if you are part of that market and a voice in that market.

I've said before though--pirates aren't a developer/publisher's market and trying to appeal to them isn't going to work. Like DRM... Yeesh... Only ever victimises buyers yet somehow they think DRM is going to turn pirates into buyers. It doesn't work that way, it turns buyers into pirates (whether they've bought and then pirated it to have it work properly or not).

I just like to remind people of the in-between :p
 
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