PS3 jailbreaker off to prison soon

I hoped Sony would have learned there previous mistake and hired him to help improve there product. Instead of trying to destroy him.
 
Weasley said:
I hoped Sony would have learned there previous mistake and hired him to help improve there product. Instead of trying to destroy him.
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Just based on the couple of quotes they attribute to him, I doubt he would've been inclined to work for them - he's pretty much still telling Sony to go and screw themselves.
 
shadowfox said:
Just based on the couple of quotes they attribute to him, I doubt he would've been inclined to work for them - he's pretty much still telling Sony to go and screw themselves.
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While I have absolutely no love for those charming hackers who insist on exploiting security flaws to compromise and publicly release usernames and passwords, I feel the need to support an individual who stands up for people's right to use something they've bought in whatever way they feel the need (unless they try to turn it into some epic weapon of mass destruction, that is :p).

Imagine companies telling you what components you may or may not use in your PC, what operating systems you may or may not install and jailing you for finding a way around that and making it public knowledge to those who wanted to do so as well but couldn't figure it out.

I can't support that kind of bureaucracy. This is one of those times where I feel this guy is in the right and he's being bullied by an insecure oaf of a company and needs as much support as he can get.

I honestly wish him the best of luck.
 
Lycanthrope said:
While I have absolutely no love for those charming hackers who insist on exploiting security flaws to compromise and publicly release usernames and passwords, I feel the need to support an individual who stands up for people's right to use something they've bought in whatever way they feel the need (unless they try to turn it into some epic weapon of mass destruction, that is :p).

Imagine companies telling you what components you may or may not use in your PC, what operating systems you may or may not install and jailing you for finding a way around that and making it public knowledge to those who wanted to do so as well but couldn't figure it out.

I can't support that kind of bureaucracy. This is one of those times where I feel this guy is in the right and he's being bullied by an insecure oaf of a company and needs as much support as he can get.

I honestly wish him the best of luck.
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That is a fair enough point - even though these days buying almost anything comes with T&Cs - but I'm not keen to jump into that whole argument. The problem here is that he released information that no company really wants floating around - including all the stuff in the below paragraph:

The court ordered Egorenkov to take down any copies of the ‘Hypervisor Bible’, a guide he authored detailing Sony’s PS3 security layer. He refused to do so, and also distributed a file named ‘coolstuff.rar’ which contained, according to Sony’s lawyer Peter Ruess, "copies, decrypted copies and reverse-engineered information of files belonging to the confidential core firmware used in the PlayStation3 which is distributed by our client."
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Y'know ... after he was initially ordered by the court not to do it, he went ahead, gave them the finger, and released more goodies. And all of this is now in the public domain, meaning that Sony's competition can now easily get a hold of it as well. I think any company has a right to want to protect that kind of information.
 
StupidIsAsStupidDoes.jpg


Feel no sympathy for this idiot. Initially what and Hotz did was okayish, but then even Hotz saw the writing and chickened out, whilst this idiot carried on. How much knowledge does he expect to gain in prison? Other than being someones bitch, he field for knowledge will be somewhat limited.
 
shadowfox said:
Y'know ... after he was initially ordered by the court not to do it, he went ahead, gave them the finger, and released more goodies. And all of this is now in the public domain, meaning that Sony's competition can now easily get a hold of it as well. I think any company has a right to want to protect that kind of information.
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I might very well be wrong but isn't the 360 basically an open book for anyone interested in that sort of stuff as well? Also, isn't all that information also freely available to developers working on PS3 titles?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this just boils down to the typical question of: if someone couldn't pirate something, would they buy it? Sony has always been a very protective company, they've always enforced DRM and they've never been a company that steps outside of their comfort-zone.

I just feel that Sony are fighting a paranoid battle against imaginary threats. Hackers took down the PSN, Playstations were still sold, Playstation users remained loyal and unconcerned and Playstation 3 games were still sold.

Also, I feel that innovation is a part of tinkering and screwing around with something. If some bright guy comes up with a really remarkable innovative use for a PS3 using custom firmware or whatever (hypothetically) Sony also stands to gain recognition and fame, it's another bonus point to why people might want to grab a PS3. While this might not be a perfect example, look at the Android operating system for cellphones and how it basically reigns in the technologically-minded who want to get as much out of it as possible. It also appeals to the average Joe because we know that chances are good that if we can think of some kind of app we want, someone else has probably put it together.

I just have so many thoughts about this entire fiasco and they all boil down to a firm belief that Sony is an irrationally insecure (paranoid) company stomping on seedlings with the potential to be money-trees thinking them weeds.

I just can't back the idea that intelligent people, who see more to a silly device; who want to get as much out of it as they can, should be jailed/litigated for it.

Yes, I understand the desire to protect your intellectual property but sometimes I just feel that it goes too far. Protect your intellectual property against other people's commercial gains, sure, but private use? I just can't.
 
So wait, this guy is going to jail for enabling linux on a ps3?

Apparently a thirst for knowledge is the driving force in his life, to the extent that the prospect of “jail or even death cannot hold it back anymore.”
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That's an awful lot of trouble to go through :rolleyes:

I have nothing but respect for a person who stands for what he believes in. Yes, Sony does have a right to protect their intellectual property, but this is taking it way too far. As mentioned in the article, the way Sony is handling the situation is creating more enemies for themselves and opening themselves up to more cyber attacks.

Lycanthrope said:
I understand the desire to protect your intellectual property but sometimes I just feel that it goes too far. Protect your intellectual property against other people's commercial gains, sure, but private use? I just can't.
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Seconded.
 
Lycanthrope said:
I might very well be wrong but isn't the 360 basically an open book for anyone interested in that sort of stuff as well? Also, isn't all that information also freely available to developers working on PS3 titles?
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You've been able to install Linux on the 360 since 2007/2008, this still works on current models of the console. This fact and that MS hasn't done anything to stop that, that they also have had a refreshing attitude towards people pulling the Kinekt apart I believe has kept them in good stead with the hacker community at large. I'm sure some still try bust into MS now and then, but no one significant.

You can't take a 360 modded with Linux online for any lengthy period of time of course, but this is a good compromise. As said many times, the people who have the skills to get around the security of the consoles have no interest in disrupting online play with cheats or pirating games, so its been left at that. All the information and tools on how to get Linux onto your 360 still sits on the original hackers website and no harm has come from it.


This is corporate bullying and Sony is quite frankly making a mockery of the legal system. I don't believe Egorenkov has done anything wrong. We've been tinkering with gadgets in our possession and sharing that knowledge since forever. I myself have a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier (guitar amplifier) that I'm always tearing apart and fiddling with and frequently partake in discussion on the Boogie boards (forum). I wouldn't be able to achieve the sound I like with the amp if I wasn't allowed to do this or leverage the past experience and guides of others. Am I not within my rights? You cannot say yes to me, and no to modding the PS3, its the same principle.
 
Blackhand said:
This is corporate bullying and Sony is quite frankly making a mockery of the legal system. I don't believe Egorenkov has done anything wrong. We've been tinkering with gadgets in our possession and sharing that knowledge since forever. I myself have a Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier (guitar amplifier) that I'm always tearing apart and fiddling with and frequently partake in discussion on the Boogie boards (forum). I wouldn't be able to achieve the sound I like with the amp if I wasn't allowed to do this or leverage the past experience and guides of others. Am I not within my rights? You cannot say yes to me, and no to modding the PS3, its the same principle.
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The thing is, as soon as you try and classify this into right/wrong (black/white) you're leaving a lot of space for confusion. Is what Sony is currently doing right? From your and my point of view - no. From theirs? Yes.

Is what Egorenkov did wrong? For us? No. For Sony? Yes.

You are, as you say, within your rights to open up and fiddle with your guitar amplifier - but, suppose you break something. Will your warrantee cover it? No. And the funny thing about rights are, they can be restricted. And in the PS3's case - they are restricted, in legal Terms & Conditions that you effectively agree to when you purchase and use their product. If you don't believe in rights being restricted - go take a look at South Africa's very own Constitution - rights may be restricted where they interfere with the rights of another entity. Principle doesn't really enter into it.

It's not like it takes a lot of reading to find the restrictions either - they form part of the second clause in the System Software Licence Agreement - I'll even quote the relevant part -

2. RESTRICTIONS
You may not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3â„¢ system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3â„¢ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3â„¢ system for any reason. Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3â„¢ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies
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There it is, in perfect legalese. So, from a legal standpoint, Sony are perfectly within their rights to enforce their terms, or procecute anyone who breaches those terms.

Sony and MS have a different approach - MS allows tinkering, Sony doesn't want you to. Again, these are their creations, so once again, they are executing their right to restrict or not to restrict.

I'm not saying I'm supporting what Sony's doing, guys. Don't get me wrong. I have a PSP, and I would love to run homebrew apps on it, but I'm aware of the fact that in doing so I would be in breach of those T&C's that come with using it. Feel free to disagree with me on this, but just because you or I believe it's right to jailbreak the item, in terms of the law, you're not.

And for a lawyer (and for almost any corporation), the letter of the law is what counts. That's what judgements get based on, not feelings.
 
The thing I find stupid is that the PS3 is slowly approaching it's end and next-gen consoles are on the way. But, I can almost guarantee that Sony had been hoping to save millions by using the same security measures on their next console, but that is now obviously no longer an option. So now Sony is sour grapes and nailing everyone they can. What they hope to achieve is beyond me, because this will not server to deter people from cracking the next console, but merely motivate them even more.

Also, what puzzles me is that the 360 has always been far easier to play pirated games on, yet no one makes a big hullabaloo about that, or is it conveniently overlooked?

Having said all that, these idiots have broken the rules and will have to suffer the consequences.
 
DenSweeP said:
Also, what puzzles me is that the 360 has always been far easier to play pirated games on, yet no one makes a big hullabaloo about that, or is it conveniently overlooked?

Having said all that, these idiots have broken the rules and will have to suffer the consequences.
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It probably comes down to Microsoft allowing people to fiddle with the XBox.

You also have to keep in mind that the companies were founded by different nationalities - and their approach to business is of necessity going to be very different. MS is US based, and compared to Japan (where Sony is based) is a lot more liberal in their approach. Japanese, on the other hand, love rules - and can be very inflexible about them.
 
shadowfox said:
The thing is, as soon as you try and classify this into right/wrong (black/white) you're leaving a lot of space for confusion. Is what Sony is currently doing right? From your and my point of view - no. From theirs? Yes.

Is what Egorenkov did wrong? For us? No. For Sony? Yes.

You are, as you say, within your rights to open up and fiddle with your guitar amplifier - but, suppose you break something. Will your warrantee cover it? No. And the funny thing about rights are, they can be restricted. And in the PS3's case - they are restricted, in legal Terms & Conditions that you effectively agree to when you purchase and use their product. If you don't believe in rights being restricted - go take a look at South Africa's very own Constitution - rights may be restricted where they interfere with the rights of another entity. Principle doesn't really enter into it.

It's not like it takes a lot of reading to find the restrictions either - they form part of the second clause in the System Software Licence Agreement - I'll even quote the relevant part -



There it is, in perfect legalese. So, from a legal standpoint, Sony are perfectly within their rights to enforce their terms, or procecute anyone who breaches those terms.

Sony and MS have a different approach - MS allows tinkering, Sony doesn't want you to. Again, these are their creations, so once again, they are executing their right to restrict or not to restrict.

I'm not saying I'm supporting what Sony's doing, guys. Don't get me wrong. I have a PSP, and I would love to run homebrew apps on it, but I'm aware of the fact that in doing so I would be in breach of those T&C's that come with using it. Feel free to disagree with me on this, but just because you or I believe it's right to jailbreak the item, in terms of the law, you're not.

And for a lawyer (and for almost any corporation), the letter of the law is what counts. That's what judgements get based on, not feelings.
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You have a fair point there. By using the system, he agreed to those terms and conditions. I actually read all that crap when I buy something (studying commercial law, so I kind of have to). According to the terms of the PS3 and the law, Sony is within their rights to take him on.
 
TheAvenged87 said:
You have a fair point there. By using the system, he agreed to those terms and conditions. I actually read all that crap when I buy something (studying commercial law, so I kind of have to). According to the terms of the PS3 and the law, Sony is within their rights to take him on.
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I wonder what precedent that will set for jailbroken phones, custom firmware, etc.

This entire debacle is just ridiculous.
 
queue alot more court cases soon me thinks. i can see alot of rage when people aren't allowed to jailbreak teh iphonz no more
 
Lycanthrope said:
I wonder what precedent that will set for jailbroken phones, custom firmware, etc.

This entire debacle is just ridiculous.
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Yeah, you have to be pretty careful where terms and conditions are present. Not just for software, but everywhere else too. There was a game retailer who changed their terms and conditions for online game shopping on April Fool's Day last year. Basically, if you read the terms and conditions when agreeing to buy a game from them, you agreed to sell your soul to them in return. Google it. Thousands of people never noticed it and bought games that day.
 
2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions.

You may not and you agree not to, or to enable others to, copy (except as expressly permitted by this License), decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code
of, decrypt, modify, or create derivative works of the iPhone Software or any services provided by the iPhone Software, or any part thereof (except as and only to the extent any foregoing
restriction is prohibited by applicable law or to the extent as may be permitted by licensing terms governing use of open-sourced components included with the iPhone Software). Any attempt to
do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the iPhone Software.
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Yet we know the US courts found in the hackers favor. Clearly not everything in a EULA will hold up in court, particularly conditions requiring you to forfeit ownership of your soul :D
 
Lycanthrope said:
I wonder what precedent that will set for jailbroken phones, custom firmware, etc.

This entire debacle is just ridiculous.
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I think in most cases the companies just don't really bother doing anything because of the cost involved in pursuing these cases. But this whole issue became pretty widely publicised; I actually have no idea why. Sony may just be looking to make an example, for all I know.

But, if you're taking precedents into account - I don't see any company coming after you for having your phone jail-broken - they'd lose more than they gain since there are millions who have their devices jail-broken. But they can simply refuse to service said device, once again legally. However, coming up with jail-breaking methods (and custom firmware) involves reverse engineering, and there you have a much smaller crowd to target and therefore much easier to prosecute.

Again, here Sony pretty much fits into the whole pattern of how the Japanese choose to do things - because of my coverage of the anime industry, I've become aware of the fact that they make almost no effort to go after people who download uploaded anime (in Japan itself), but if they catch you distributing it you're in for a world of pain.
 
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