R699 car sales scheme court battle

James

James

MyGaming Alumnus
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The hearing into the R699 car sales scheme has been set down for early August in the Eastern Cape High Court in Port Elizabeth, a lawyer representing consumers said on Tuesday.

"This morning the judge granted an order postponing the matter to the seventh [of August]," Duncan Heuer said.

After the matter was seen as urgent last week, if it had not been opposed it would have taken place on Tuesday, he said.

After papers...read more here: R699 car sales scheme court battle
 
Anyone that didn't see this for the scam it is should be ashamed. Pro-tip; if you cannot easily explain and identify how a company makes it's money, it probably a scheme of some sort...
 
DieGrootHammer said:
Anyone that didn't see this for the scam it is should be ashamed. Pro-tip; if you cannot easily explain and identify how a company makes it's money, it probably a scheme of some sort...
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To be fair you can see how the model works, however the model wasn't sustainable.
 
I disagree about this scheme being a pyramid scheme - the earn while you drive option does not force you to do any marketing as your income per month is not dependent on how many people you have recruited or how many people your recruited people hav recruited.

I helped my mother buy one of these vehicles some time back and it actually worked out wonderfully for her. She received over R25k between Oct 2011 and June 2014. They never missed a payment even though the amounts varied slightly. She never drove the full 2000km, so we knew full well that we would not be receiving the full amount every month.

If there are more scams out there that will pay us R25k in less than 3 years, please let me know. I'm interested.
 
Wyzak said:
I disagree about this scheme being a pyramid scheme - the earn while you drive option does not force you to do any marketing as your income per month is not dependent on how many people you have recruited or how many people your recruited people hav recruited.

I helped my mother buy one of these vehicles some time back and it actually worked out wonderfully for her. She received over R25k between Oct 2011 and June 2014. They never missed a payment even though the amounts varied slightly. She never drove the full 2000km, so we knew full well that we would not be receiving the full amount every month.

If there are more scams out there that will pay us R25k in less than 3 years, please let me know. I'm interested.
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Atleast you understood that sometimes you were not going to pay the lowest amount possible all the time.

People (not including your mother) budgeted that they would pay the lowest amount possible every month for the duration of the contract. Life does not work like that, you should be prepared to pay full price for the entire term of the contract. Getting money back is just a bonus.
 
Glordit said:
Atleast you understood that sometimes you were not going to pay the lowest amount possible all the time.

People (not including your mother) budgeted that they would pay the lowest amount possible every month for the duration of the contract. Life does not work like that, you should be prepared to pay full price for the entire term of the contract. Getting money back is just a bonus.
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Exactly. We chose a car she could easily afford even if the scheme collapsed immediately, and a car that she would have bought anyway had the scheme not been available.
 
Ok here is why I say it's a pyramid.

The Scheme got money from people smsing in and/or buying a car through them. This to me leads to 3 possible endings.

A.
Everyone in SA sends an sms and finds out more, no more people can sms and the fund collapses.

B.
Everyone in SA buys a car through them, no more people to buy cars and the scheme collapses.

C.
Lots of people buy cars through the scheme. This means that there are more people to pay from the SMS revenue than the SMS revenue can supply. Payments decrease and advertising slows down as negative rep decreases the schemes viability and as such revenue decreases until the scheme collapses.

As with a pyramid scheme if you get in early then the system works for you but for the guy who entered 3 months ago it's a huge burn in their wallet.

So even you may think it's not a pyramid, scenarios A and B are 2 extremes that show that in fact it really is when you boil it down to it's bare facts.

Also i'm excluding the car repayments from my explanation and solely focussing on the recoupments from the scheme. The car purchase was meant to hide the ponzi payments IMO.
 
The scheme got money from the advertisers on the back, not from people buying vehicles through the scheme. There were no initial fees (that I recall) or monthly fees. It did not cost me a single cent to participate in the scheme, but I received R25k back. To my knowledge they did not receive a single cent from the banks.
 
Wyzak said:
The scheme got money from the advertisers on the back, not from people buying vehicles through the scheme. There were no initial fees (that I recall) or monthly fees. It did not cost me a single cent to participate in the scheme, but I received R25k back. To my knowledge they did not receive a single cent from the banks.
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Granted you may not have paid, but if everyone has a car from them then how would they get any money
 
I think for many here the issue revolves around supposed tampering with the applications sent in from Satinsky to the banks. Seems in some cases living costs and monthly expenses were altered, as well as if the applicant had any kids and so. If this is true then there are probably quite a few of these applicants who probably would not have qualified for the loan in the first place. The banks are scampering and everyone is pointing fingers.

I watched a bit regarding this on Sunday (think it was on SABC 3, Special Assignment) and it looks like even the Blue Lakes Advertising company was a front company that never truly existed. And just the general way in which these guys are handling themselves and queries regarding this stinks.

So yeah Wyzak, you scored a bit out of this deal because you were an early adopter. The guys who joined recently, not so much. Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck... Why you would defend these guys is beyond me. They are scum preying on desperate people.
 
Ike_009 said:
The advertisers is themselves
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Clearly you have no idea about this scheme whatsoever. So rather keep quiet.

Nemesis said:
So yeah Wyzak, you scored a bit out of this deal because you were an early adopter. The guys who joined recently, not so much. Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck... Why you would defend these guys is beyond me. They are scum preying on desperate people.
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How are they preying on anybody? The people entered the agreement voluntary, they entered into an agreement that clearly states that it can be cancelled at any time. The agreement does not cost the people a cent, yet they stand to receive a lot every month.

It is my opinion that the people that caused it to collapse are those aholes who abused the system after removing the stickers from their vehicle and doctoring the photos every month. They deserve everything that is hopefully coming their way.

If it can be proven that Satinsky manipulated documents then they should bear the full brunt of the law, but that was definitely not the case in my application. If people noticed that their documentation was manipulated yet did nothing about it they also deserved to be charged, but will get off scot-free.

If you don't read the contract that you signed and were under the false impression that they guaranteed the monthly advertising fee then you are to blame for your predicament.
 
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Ike_009 said:
Ok here is why I say it's a pyramid.

The Scheme got money from people smsing in and/or buying a car through them. This to me leads to 3 possible endings.

A.
Everyone in SA sends an sms and finds out more, no more people can sms and the fund collapses.

B.
Everyone in SA buys a car through them, no more people to buy cars and the scheme collapses.

C.
Lots of people buy cars through the scheme. This means that there are more people to pay from the SMS revenue than the SMS revenue can supply. Payments decrease and advertising slows down as negative rep decreases the schemes viability and as such revenue decreases until the scheme collapses.

As with a pyramid scheme if you get in early then the system works for you but for the guy who entered 3 months ago it's a huge burn in their wallet.

So even you may think it's not a pyramid, scenarios A and B are 2 extremes that show that in fact it really is when you boil it down to it's bare facts.

Also i'm excluding the car repayments from my explanation and solely focussing on the recoupments from the scheme. The car purchase was meant to hide the ponzi payments IMO.
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Not many people seemed to buy into the scheme, this is my personal observation walk to work past 2 busy intersections and work at a wall so I see a lot of cars.

AFAIK how the "sceme" worked was:

A) Get car finance quote.
B) Take pricing to company sell the cars in question
C) "Buy" the car on a contract stating that you will pay R999 a month and if 1 of 3 conditions (C) are met you will get the difference back by an assigned date.
C i) Get X amount of SMS's a month.
ii) You unique code is connected to X amount of sales.
iii) You drive X amount of kilometers in a calendar month.
D) Condition i, ii or iii are met then you will receive a reimbursement of R300, hence you paying R699 for the car.

The biggest questions for me are, who owned the car before you had payed it off (the agency, the bank or you?) and where did the agency get the cars from? Where they authorised car dealers, or where they middlemen?

I am in no way defending anyone on this, and I too thought it was to good to be true I am just amazed at how dense the people are that bought into the whole scheme believing that they would receive the full reimbursement every month.
 
Wyzak said:
Clearly you have no idea about this scheme whatsoever. So rather keep quiet.
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Clearly as an independent outsider, who has been researching developments on the the case and has no stake in the going-concern of the company, my opinion is worth less than someone who is being paid by the offending party. "whistling:
 
Glordit said:
The biggest questions for me are, who owned the car before you had payed it off (the agency, the bank or you?) and where did the agency get the cars from? Where they authorised car dealers, or where they middlemen?

I am in no way defending anyone on this, and I too thought it was to good to be true I am just amazed at how dense the people are that bought into the whole scheme believing that they would receive the full reimbursement every month.
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The bank with whom you accepted the financing owns the car. Once you have paid off your debt to them the ownership is transferred to you. Exactly like a normal vehicle purchase. The agreement is between you and the bank.

From what I've been able to see the agency sourced it's vehicles through various different paths. Some were demo models that they brought up from wherever they were (these vehicles were clearly sold as being demos, before somebody jumps on that bandwagon). In other cases they contacted the vehicle manufacturer and placed bulk orders for low-end vehicles of a specific type. I believe Renault has an outstanding order for something like 200 vehicles which has now been left hanging.

They had several vehicle options available on their website, and you could choose the one of your liking with the monthly repayment that suits your pocket. You then contact them and arrange a meeting. They collect all of the paperwork and submit it to the various banks. The banks either offer you a loan or they don't. They put you in contact with the banks who offered you a loan. You sign a contract with the bank, and they arrange for the car to be delivered to you or you can collect it from them.
 
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Wyzak said:
How are they preying on anybody? The people entered the agreement voluntary, they entered into an agreement that clearly states that it can be cancelled at any time. The agreement does not cost the people a cent, yet they stand to receive a lot every month.
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Ok, but for one moment, look past the contracts. Just the way Satinsky is handling this, does that not tell you there is something wrong here? Is Blue Lakes even real? Did Satinsky tamper with applications to make their clients more credit friendly? Did the banks not do their vetting process right? Why did payments start to dry up when the banks pulled their "support" for this scheme? Just sounds like older members where getting payments from newer members. Once this started to dry up it all went south.

I agree with you regarding people should not have bought the cars if they can't afford the full repayment, but sadly there will always be people who are desperate enough for something like this (be it they need a car for work or whatever). And if it's these same people who's applications may have been tampered with, then it does create a huge problem as a large percentage of these clients should not have had their applications approved.
 
Nemesis said:
Ok, but for one moment, look past the contracts. Just the way Satinsky is handling this, does that not tell you there is something wrong here? Is Blue Lakes even real? Did Satinsky tamper with applications to make their clients more credit friendly? Did the banks not do their vetting process right? Why did payments start to dry up when the banks pulled their "support" for this scheme? Just sounds like older members where getting payments from newer members. Once this started to dry up it all went south.
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Yeah, it has always been sketchy, and I did a lot of research before entering into an agreement with them. What payments? There weren't any monthly payments. There is nothing to redistribute from other members (to make it a ponzi scheme).

I agree with you regarding people should not have bought the cars if they can't afford the full repayment, but sadly there will always be people who are desperate enough for something like this (be it they need a car for work or whatever). And if it's these same people who's applications may have been tampered with, then it does create a huge problem as a large percentage of these clients should not have had their applications approved.
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I understand that, and it sucks for those people. But if they couldn't have afforded the vehicle normally they should have stayed clear of this. There were no guarantees.

I also blame the banks for not doing their homework. A simply phone call to the consumer to verify the submitted documentation would have immediately picked up any doctored documents. In my opinion the banks dropped the ball on this particular section and I hope that the NCR steps in.
 
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