Necuno
The Piper
But yes the mass market wants what it knows, it cannot cope with something bold... something differant. 
Too many sequels, and too many established IPs
Too many sequels, and too many established IPs
Too many sequels, and too many established IPs
- Thread starter Necuno
- Start date
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
See people say that but they dont mean it. The is one thing to blame for the sea of sequels we swing in, the consumer. Those who know me will know I have said this many times and since I am too lazy to type it again I will just quote myself:
Lets use Kingdom's of Amalur as an example, good game, has it issues but I would argue less than say Skyrim yet it only shifted 500K copies where as Skyrim in all its buggy glory shifted 10 Million Copies.
Spec Ops the Line, while being a decent enough Cover Bases shooter that tells a very decent story shifts 390K units yet people are already salivating over Gears of War Judgement.
How many new IP FPSes can you name? Pure no thrills FPS action? Colonial Marine... thats all I could find that doesn't have a number behind it. Sure Farcry 3, Black Ops 2, Crysis 3, Halo 4 but nothing new and why is that? Because the Legion wants their COD fix, their Halo fix. These big names stamp out the competition because Black Ops 2 pre-orders have already shattered records so why would any publisher back a fresh IP?
As long as people keep forking out for the established IPs there will be no money for fresh ideas.
MalicE
Party time! Excellent!
People are affraid of the "NEW", they find it strange and confusing
Take for example Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, hands down one of my top 10 favourite games, but sadly Big Huge Games had to close their doors:
Now had it been called Fable: Reckoning I'm sure it would have sold ELEVENTY BILLION coppies
I think, in my opinion, the sad reality of it all is that developers en publishers are all money driven. They worry more about sales than the actual product they're feeding us. So instead of making something new and bold and amazing, they give us hyped up sequels, that the public is already familiar with
Take for example Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, hands down one of my top 10 favourite games, but sadly Big Huge Games had to close their doors:
Now had it been called Fable: Reckoning I'm sure it would have sold ELEVENTY BILLION coppies
I think, in my opinion, the sad reality of it all is that developers en publishers are all money driven. They worry more about sales than the actual product they're feeding us. So instead of making something new and bold and amazing, they give us hyped up sequels, that the public is already familiar with
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Why make something new and bold & run the risk of going the way of Big Huge Games when you can roll out another COD and make millions? Its easy to say "yeah they should have some back bone and take some risks" but would you say the same if your job was on the line. If the studio hits a dud, like Big Huge Games, suddenly 300 odd peoples jobs are at risk, so yeah its money driven like everything, if people dont make money why would they work 80 hour weeks? All the fan praise and acclaim in the world wont put food on your table or your kids though college. You think people make the likes of Battlefield 3 or Mass Effect 3 for a pat on the back? Which they dont even get because the legion of Nerds think themselves all powerful? No Money, plain & simple. They may get into it for passion but few stay once the money dries up.
How many "core" gamers on this site forked out for MW3, how many are already salivating over Black Ops 2?
I dont distinguish, gaming is no longer the niche market reserved for high school nerds & socially awkward twenty something. People bought those titles, I dont care if its hardcore, Casual or by mistake. The sooner core gaming community sheds this elitist, entitled attitude it's cocooned it self in the better.
MalicE
Party time! Excellent!
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Big Huge took a HUGE gamble with KoA, especially for a "startup" company, and I'll admit, the first time I saw the gamplay trailers I judged it as a mindless button basher, and man was I WRONG.
The point I'm trying to make, is there are good sequels, like ME3, that's part of a series, an ongoing, integrating plot.
Then there are the bad kind of sequel, the kind they release once, even twice a year, like the COD's and the Assassins Creeds, it's all the same donuts, just with different sprinkles on top
Graal
New member
Well, that's a very short-sighted way of looking at things then, if you don't want to distinguish between people who play games casually and hobby gamers.
I'm guessing you don't distinguish between people who play boardgames as a hobby, and Tannie Sannie who plays Monopoly with her husband when they run out of things to tell each other then? You also probably also don't distinguish between the hobby astronomer who has a room dedicated to the storage of all his astronomy equipment and the dating couple lying on the grass on a blanket gazing at the stars?
It's pretty laughable calling people elitist for making a distinction between people who play games on the sideline every once in a while and people who play games as a hobby.
Casual gamers buy established brands.
I'm guessing you don't distinguish between people who play boardgames as a hobby, and Tannie Sannie who plays Monopoly with her husband when they run out of things to tell each other then? You also probably also don't distinguish between the hobby astronomer who has a room dedicated to the storage of all his astronomy equipment and the dating couple lying on the grass on a blanket gazing at the stars?
It's pretty laughable calling people elitist for making a distinction between people who play games on the sideline every once in a while and people who play games as a hobby.
Casual gamers buy established brands.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Unless you are a tester or a reviewer you play games casually. Period. The hobby board gamers doesn't run around telling Tannie Sannie she's playing it wrong or its her fault board gaming is on the decline. The amateur astronomer doesn't go around swinging his telescope telling the Star Gazing couple that they dont fully appreciate the stars and should rather leave looking at them to "professionals" this disease is almost unique to gaming.
Everyone buys established brands, I think your confusing distinguish with discrimination.
ViperGTI
New member
I personally don't pre-order new IPs... ok fair enough, I rarely pre-order any games, but for new IPs, I'd usually wait a couple of months for the price to come down. At that stage, I'll probably buy 2 new IPs for the price (or cheaper) than I would have paid if at release.
If the game prices were a bit cheaper, I'd be much more likely to gamble on buying a new IP on release.
If the game prices were a bit cheaper, I'd be much more likely to gamble on buying a new IP on release.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
What about well established IPs? Are you more likely to buy them on release?
Graal
New member
OmegaFenix, honestly. Jesus man. Get over yourself a bit. Stop plying this whole "god's gift to gamer-kind" angle, and for once, read what's written without putting words in anyone's mouths.
Where did I say being a hobby gamer means you tell casual gamers what they should or shouldn't play? Or that they're the one's ruining the industry? In fact, where, in this thread, did I say anything negative about casual gamers? Anything negative in my posts comes from your overactive imagination.
The only thing I've said thus far is that casual gamers generally buy established brands, because they're familiar with them. Economics 101.
I never said being a hobby gamer makes you an elitist prick. Elitist pricks are elitist pricks, so please, take your accusations of 'discrimination' to someone who they actually apply to.
Where did I say being a hobby gamer means you tell casual gamers what they should or shouldn't play? Or that they're the one's ruining the industry? In fact, where, in this thread, did I say anything negative about casual gamers? Anything negative in my posts comes from your overactive imagination.
The only thing I've said thus far is that casual gamers generally buy established brands, because they're familiar with them. Economics 101.
I never said being a hobby gamer makes you an elitist prick. Elitist pricks are elitist pricks, so please, take your accusations of 'discrimination' to someone who they actually apply to.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
For someone who loves mouthing off on my grossly inflated sense of self you do an awful lot of assuming. Please point out to me where I said you said anything?
I also didn't accuse you of anything, merely suggested you may be confusing the two.
So follow your own advice and read.
to0kenZA
New member
For someone who loves mouthing off on my grossly inflated sense of self you do an awful lot of assuming. Please point out to me where I said you said anything?
I also didn't accuse you of anything, merely suggested you may be confusing the two.
So follow your own advice and read.
So now that we all know that money ruined games, what can we do about it?
We can:
1) Try and convince the masses to stop supporting shit and let it be known that we are actually really yearning for originality.
2) Support Indie developers/make our own mods with mod tools.
Does any remember when Counter-Strike first came out? It was omgwowwtf and it became popular, and it was fun. Fun as shit! Same with Dota. It became more enjoyable than Warcraft III itself.
And look at DayZ for instance. It's an awesome idea. Too bad the Arma II engine is so terrible, but it's something relatively new. And it even sort of kickstarted a new project called The War Z. Which you can register for here, btw.
There has been so many mods that came out for games that were way more fun than the original games themselves, but where's that these days? Nowhere because developers don't allow modding tools anymore. If people don't want to make fun games anymore, and just churn out the biggest load of kuk every 3 months, at least let the communities use tools to make their own damn games.
i was just thinking this weekend, whilst playing Dead Island, how cool it would've been to have 2 slegdehammers, one in each hand, with spinning attacks and double hammer slam...
Games have become seriously mind-numbing. It's ridiculous. Every time I get my hopes up for a game, it eventually releases and turns out to be a disappointment which just makes me feel unexcited for any future releases.
MOnk
New member
*Turns the dial down a notch or ten*
Quick note about 'casual gamers' I honestly hate that term, it's so abused, overused and distorted that it now means almost nothing. If you are buying Skyrim you are not a casual gamers, either that or everyone who buys Skyrim is a casual gamer since it's unlikely anyone that bought Skyrim doesn't play games as a hobby.
Ok so anyway, new IP, old IP , strange weird and freaky IP. There is NOTHING wrong with established IP, some comic characters have been around for more than half a century, some book series have been going on for decades, even some TV series have been going for a decade and sometimes longer. Established IP means familiarity it means comfort. People like things they are familiar with, it's easy for them to jump into. When you extend this to games it's not only story, characters and settings but it's also gameplay mechanics.
So the more familiar you make a game the lower the barrier for entry becomes the more people you can encourage to try you game.
I'm not going to dislike a game just because it's sequel, I'll dislike it because maybe I feel it doesn't add very much to previous games or maybe because the game itself just isn't good. But disliking a games just because of it's name is silly. Also I often like sequels, they provide an opportunity for the developer to learn from the previous game and build a better game.
Yes sure it would be nice if fewer people bought CoD and more people bought KoA but you can't just expect that to happen, you have to plan with the knowledge that you can't just expect huge sales on your brand new IP and that you have to build it up.
Quick note about 'casual gamers' I honestly hate that term, it's so abused, overused and distorted that it now means almost nothing. If you are buying Skyrim you are not a casual gamers, either that or everyone who buys Skyrim is a casual gamer since it's unlikely anyone that bought Skyrim doesn't play games as a hobby.
Ok so anyway, new IP, old IP , strange weird and freaky IP. There is NOTHING wrong with established IP, some comic characters have been around for more than half a century, some book series have been going on for decades, even some TV series have been going for a decade and sometimes longer. Established IP means familiarity it means comfort. People like things they are familiar with, it's easy for them to jump into. When you extend this to games it's not only story, characters and settings but it's also gameplay mechanics.
So the more familiar you make a game the lower the barrier for entry becomes the more people you can encourage to try you game.
I'm not going to dislike a game just because it's sequel, I'll dislike it because maybe I feel it doesn't add very much to previous games or maybe because the game itself just isn't good. But disliking a games just because of it's name is silly. Also I often like sequels, they provide an opportunity for the developer to learn from the previous game and build a better game.
Yes sure it would be nice if fewer people bought CoD and more people bought KoA but you can't just expect that to happen, you have to plan with the knowledge that you can't just expect huge sales on your brand new IP and that you have to build it up.
ViperGTI
New member
It depends on how good the first game / two was. Batman AC & ME3 I pre-ordered... Assassin's Creed Brotherhood I got a couple of months after release and Revelations about the same time as release. Skyrim I got on special quite a while after release. So it varies.
The developer also plays a role obviously... I got Mass Effect 1 for less than R100, a couple of years after released and based on that game alone, I went out and bought Dragon Age and pre-ordered ME2 (my first pre-order ever).
The thing with established IPs, is that while they were new IPs themselves at one stage, they've proven themselves during that stage which makes it almost a safe bet for buying "blindly".
So although I do like established IPs, new is also good. Got a bunch of new stuff during the Steam summer sale that I wouldn't have bought at full price as it was at release, but now at more affordable rates, it is worth taking experimenting.
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Graal
New member
For someone who loves mouthing off on my grossly inflated sense of self you do an awful lot of assuming. Please point out to me where I said you said anything?
I also didn't accuse you of anything, merely suggested you may be confusing the two.
So follow your own advice and read.
You were attacking my posts, using my examples to go on about people bashing on casual gamers, and saying that it isn't distinction, but discrimination. So my apologies that the only logical conclusion is that you're calling me elitist or discriminatory towards casual gamers, especially seeing as I'm the only one who brought up casual gamers up to that point.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
No I was stating a fact, all you have to do is play any game with other people to hear how the "core" gamers attack casuals and that IS discrimination. No where did I say you are one of those or that you even discriminate. Yet your immediate response is jump on the defensive, and you say I have self esteem issues.
As for "Attacking" your post... Dude I dont even have words. You talk to me about attack but this is your go to response?
I'll make you a deal, if you are so offended and feel so victimised by my post there is an easy solution. Add me to your ignore list and be done with it other wise just grow up.
Now that the personal "attacks" are out of the way we can get back on topic.