Unlimited Detail in Games...?

Sou1Co11ector

New member
Well believe it or not, this is a serious technology being developed by a company called Euclideon.

It promises developers the freedom to really go and create games beyond HD and take the next big step and actually offer you unlimited detail. Now before you go off and say impossible if they add animation, they do claim to have animations as well. We'll just have to wait and see.

So here check it out and drool and the sheer beauty of what could be.

 
It does look quite incredible, there must be some really clever code trickery going on there. I'm sure it wont be long before one of the big cheeses buy these guys out.
 
Haven't watched the vid yet, but I'm guessing algorithmically generated textures? Sorta like fractals...you can zoom infinitely.

The tricky bit is that "unlimited detail" does not translate to unlimited meaningful detail. e.g. You render a single hair on a cat. Zoom in 10000x and now you need to render cells & molecules instead of hairs. That jump you can't get right with code trickery, it has to be specifically programmed.
 
OK watched it now.

From what I can tell they are using voxels plus procedural generation. Neither is anywhere near new.

There is also a lot of trickery going on in that vid that isn't easy to spot for someone who hasn't programmed gfx.

Take this shot.
Notice the distinctive pattern in which the objects are arranged. Thats a fractal pattern. Very cool for unlimited detail, but not useful to an artist since it does only that pattern. Notice also that the objects are all the same. Effectively this means that the GFX stack can just "copy paste" them. That means you get many many times higher FPS counts than you usually would...unless you actually try to use it to render something that isn't all the same (which you kinda would in a game & they haven't done).

Next look at their claims: "Unlimited detail"...and then they proceed to quantify the detail in kilometers & mm. Unlimited is by definition not quantified.

The mention of kilometers is a bad sign in itself, because in a digital world it is meaningless since scale is arbitrarily chosen. i.e. It will only fool people who don't know whats going on.

Look at this pic of their island. Look specifically at the reflection of the sky in the sea. That effective is created by adding a semi transparent water layer & positioning a skybox image behind it. Which is *exactly* the technique they just mocked the other developers for using (static cardboard image in the distance). Notice also that the palms are all exactly the same, which again creates the illusion of performance that isn't really there (copy paste).

They have also copped out of one crucial issue: "We are a tech company, not a game company". They used this to justify that the artistic side isn't 100% yet. Exactly that is the crucial issue. You see not only do big game dev have to stick to polygon budget, but they also have limited artistic time & artistic resources per each object that the artist has to design. You can easily get to a passable looking world with procedural technique, but you quickly hit a wall with it...a very solid wall. Look at the (vertical) sides of the island in the 2nd pic I posted. See how it repeats? Exactly the same can be achieved with a simple single texture (and add mip mapping for zoom). Same thing for the rock. Their one scanned rock is very nice...but how are you going to create 20 entire levels? Scan 1 million rocks & plants etc? See how they haven't really solved the artistics problem.

In summary: It is an impressive tech demo, but they layered a ridiculous layer of deception and unrealistic claims on top of it. They present it as new technology (its not) and claim to have solve problems they haven't actually solved. Nor have they actually shown that it is feasible to build a game environment comparable to modern games with this tech (they are perhaps 80% there, but it gets progressively more difficult the closer you get.

In fact, minecraft is 20 steps ahead of them. They've got a fully destructible, moving & commercially profitable voxel based game. Hell I think they even use procedural generation too.
 
If you are interested in something similar, but a lot more impressive for its time (2000) - check out: http://www.theproduct.de/

I first started watching their videos in 2001. They do animation and vector programming + midi soundtracks and cram it all into 64kB.

The first (and favourite) of their demo's that I saw was Fr-08. (64kB) - During the commentary in the closing credits you see them adding more text etc. just to fill up the left over space.


They even created a First Person Shooter with insane detail when you walk up to walls etc, which is only 96kB. It's called KKrieger and you can DL the free copy here.

 
Wow, looks incredible, can't wait to see what games are going to be like in 10 years time...
 
It look real impressive, but HavocXphere made so good argumeants. If its real then maybe we got something. but by the two other articles it seems that the amount of space required for a game rendered this way, is enourmous. So we see what happens when they do finish may anohter year from now.
 
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