Windows 10 to block unauthorised hardware and software

[Avatar]

It will. They haven't had the financial backing of a multi-billion dollar company for decades. Just look at how the available games on Linux has exploded in the last few years since Steam started supporting the OS. There are currently 1189 games on Steam that support Linux.

Not to even mention what Vulkan is going to do to the Linux gaming scene. If the trend keeps up, I'll probably switch to Linux for good in the next 2 or 3 years.

They have, for more than a decade.

Besides, games doesn't drive OS sale, development and adoption. Hells, home use doesn't even drive it, that's why Windows 10 was given as a free upgrade to so many users. Industrial use, machines, OS licenses where you'd never expect to find them, and the support fees for those licences are where the money is being made, and what drives development.

 

[PsychoFish]

They have, for more than a decade.

Besides, games doesn't drive OS sale, development and adoption. Hells, home use doesn't even drive it, that's why Windows 10 was given as a free upgrade to so many users. Industrial use, machines, OS licenses where you'd never expect to find them, and the support fees for those licences are where the money is being made, and what drives development.

Exactly that. Remember that the Windows 10 upgrade was only free to Retail and OEM/Non-business licences. Companies with Enterprise Agreement/Software Assurance licences still has to "buy" Windows 10 licences or have them form part of their entitled products. These cost mega bucks for some companies. Also, embedded operating systems (Windows 10 IoT Core / Windows Embedded Compact / Windows Embedded CE / Windows CE / Windows Embedded 8 / Windows XP Embedded / Windows NT 4.0 Embedded / Windows Embedded Industry / Windows Embedded NAVReady / Windows Embedded Handheld) all have different costs associated with it. Ever use an ATM in SA? You've probably used Windows XP Embedded then.

Very important to note is that these special versions of Windows IS NOT THE SAME AS THE OS THAT SHARES THE SAME NAME.

Also, with things like an EA/SA comes professional services. Which is where the real money gets made.

 

[Graal]

They have, for more than a decade.

Did Shuttleworth support Ubuntu specifically for the purpose of furthering videogaming on the OS? Because that's what we're talking about here.

Besides, games doesn't drive OS sale, development and adoption. Hells, home use doesn't even drive it, that's why Windows 10 was given as a free upgrade to so many users. Industrial use, machines, OS licenses where you'd never expect to find them, and the support fees for those licences are where the money is being made, and what drives development.

Unless I missed something, I'm honestly not sure what relevance this has to the discussion? I was talking about the rise of Linux as a gaming OS, not what factors drive OS sales.

 

[Avatar]

Did Shuttleworth support Ubuntu specifically for the purpose of furthering videogaming on the OS? Because that's what we're talking about here.



Unless I missed something, I'm honestly not sure what relevance this has to the discussion? I was talking about the rise of Linux as a gaming OS, not what factors drive OS sales.

This is what we were talking about, I'll walk you through it:

Everything I read about Win10 seems to be pointing more and more to the fact that I really should move back to Win8. Hopefully Linux becomes more viable in the next few years so that I can finally ditch the anal vomit that is known as Windows.

You were lamenting that Win10 is not what you want, and that really you want Linux to change to suit your needs.

People have been hoping that for decades. It's not going to happen.

E-Soup said that loads of people had lamented this very lament for decades, and that it's not gonna happen. (I add soon to his last sentence in my head, because ol' Soup might speak in absolutes, but he's no sith.)

It will. They haven't had the financial backing of a multi-billion dollar company for decades. Just look at how the available games on Linux has exploded in the last few years since Steam started supporting the OS. There are currently 1189 games on Steam that support Linux.

Not to even mention what Vulkan is going to do to the Linux gaming scene. If the trend keeps up, I'll probably switch to Linux for good in the next 2 or 3 years.

You presented the change in the number of available games on Linux as evidence of the Linux changing to suit your needs. Please note that this was the first point in this conversation that games had been mentioned.

They have, for more than a decade.

Besides, games doesn't drive OS sale, development and adoption. Hells, home use doesn't even drive it, that's why Windows 10 was given as a free upgrade to so many users. Industrial use, machines, OS licenses where you'd never expect to find them, and the support fees for those licences are where the money is being made, and what drives development.

I refuted the evidence on the grounds that no OS developer cares about gaming, and that Linux thus isn't changing to suit your needs as much as you hoped, the point you made in post #1142449.

And this is a tiny caveat, but Shuttleworth != Canonical.

 

[Graal]

I think what you're missing here is that people do not game on Linux because before now it was not viable. Developers did not create games with Linux support and playing most games required messing around in WINE with very unpredictable results. This is fast changing as more and more devs port their games to Linux. Right now they are busy working on a gaming API called Vulkan, specifically to replace OpenGL on Linux. There is even a Linux distro specifically intended for playing games. Clearly the gaming scene on Linux is advancing in leaps and bounds.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by saying that no OS developer cares about gaming and therefore gaming on Linux is not becoming more viable (???)- this after being presented with evidence of how gaming on Linux has become more viable.

Why you felt the need to go off on a tangent about OS creators and the driving factors behind OS sales is something only you'll know. My posts here have been about the viability of Linux for gaming right from the start. I already have Ubuntu on my desktop and it is used for most of my day-to-day tasks. I need to keep Windows as a dual-boot OS for my gaming needs, which I'm hoping I won't need to do for very much longer.

So in conclusion:

 

[Avatar]

I'll try to be succinct:

* I believe the point that you're missing here is that you're the only one talking about gaming specifically. The rest of us were talking about Win10 in general, and even your first post fails to show that you define viability as the ability to play modern games on the OS.
* Pointing out the fact that Vulkan is in development is a non-starter, IMHO, as it's still in development.
* A thousand odd games running on Linux is a drop in the ocean, especially if you look at the engines driving those games.
* Gaming-centric distro's are not new. See SuperGamer, released in 2006.
* Again, the tying in of OS development and gaming lies in the fact that the entire thread is about a new OS and its development.

Do realise, the reason we're saying all this is that we've danced this dance before.


EDIT: And now, I'll stop feeding. I try to only ever reiterate once.

 

[Graal]

Lol, omfg.

Sometimes I wonder.

 

[Grievous]

I'll try to be succinct:

* I believe the point that you're missing here is that you're the only one talking about gaming specifically. The rest of us were talking about Win10 in general, and even your first post fails to show that you define viability as the ability to play modern games on the OS.

No we not! Don't bring the rest of us into this argument. We were talking about the restrictions windows 10 in the EULA stating they can block certain software and hardware. I think you guys should start new thread, this thread has been thoroughly derailed.

 

[PsychoFish]

No we not! Don't bring the rest of us into this argument. We were talking about the restrictions windows 10 in the EULA stating they can block certain software and hardware. I think you guys should start new thread, this thread has been thoroughly derailed.

Turns out that MS will bring down the ban hammer on titles currently available in the Windows 10 store that have been acquired through "unauthorized channels"

 

[Grievous]

Turns out that MS will bring down the ban hammer on titles currently available in the Windows 10 store that have been acquired through "unauthorized channels"

That kinds of sucks, but won't affect me, haven't had "Unauthorised" software on my PC for years.

 

[Venom]

Google controls us hypnotically , Microsoft commands us openly and Linux is lost in the woods having a braai .

The main issue here for me is , if I buy something I want to decide what I can and cant plug in .
This clause of theirs is so open ended , if they decided my GFX is not on their list or if I have modified some component with alternate firmware to achieve something they have the ability to block use via Win 10 . Who decides what I can or cant use ? should that not be me ?

 

[PsychoFish]

Google controls us hypnotically , Microsoft commands us openly and Linux is lost in the woods having a braai .

The main issue here for me is , if I buy something I want to decide what I can and cant plug in .
This clause of theirs is so open ended , if they decided my GFX is not on their list or if I have modified some component with alternate firmware to achieve something they have the ability to block use via Win 10 . Who decides what I can or cant use ? should that not be me ?

Yeah, but say you buy a APAC XBox controller intended for the APAC reason, because you're cheap and live in say the US, they (MS) should surely reserve the right to not allow you to use the APAC controller in the US if the US/International hardware is freely available in your country albeit slightly more expensive? It's just business and companies are in the business of making money, so if they can protect their income stream all the better.

 

[Venom]

Yeah, but say you buy a APAC XBox controller intended for the APAC reason, because you're cheap and live in say the US, they (MS) should surely reserve the right to not allow you to use the APAC controller in the US if the US/International hardware is freely available in your country albeit slightly more expensive? It's just business and companies are in the business of making money, so if they can protect their income stream all the better.

I disagree

That amounts to them controlling what I buy because I bought one of there products , whats to stop them from allowing me to connect my android phone , or sony camera , and then tell me to use what they deem good for me .
If I want to buy a APAC controller I should be able to , if they want me to buy their product make the price cheaper and compete in that market.

Having the power to just reject my choice , will and im not being dramatic lead us into a slave nation .

Choice is fundamental thing about being human , and if you want to take away my ability to choose then I will just broom MS.
There are many choices now available they are not the only giants around.

 

[PsychoFish]

I disagree

That amounts to them controlling what I buy because I bought one of there products , whats to stop them from allowing me to connect my android phone , or sony camera , and then tell me to use what they deem good for me .
If I want to buy a APAC controller I should be able to , if they want me to buy their product make the price cheaper and compete in that market.

Having the power to just reject my choice , will and im not being dramatic lead us into a slave nation .

Choice is fundamental thing about being human , and if you want to take away my ability to choose then I will just broom MS.
There are many choices now available they are not the only giants around.

Act 37 of 1997 disagrees with you wholly

 

[Venom]

Act 37 of 1997 disagrees with you wholly

While I can see how that could be lead into Counterfeit in some stretch , A lot of them have open peripheral patents and base patents and GNU patents that they are based on .

For example in a reverse sort scenario , what are the legalities on say a mouse ( computer peripheral ) this although is widely used as part of windows PC is not solely theirs. What happens if they don't like something Roccat makes .Is it their choice what one could or couldn't use

 

[Grievous]

I disagree

That amounts to them controlling what I buy because I bought one of there products , whats to stop them from allowing me to connect my android phone , or sony camera.

Because that's a different issue from what you are talking about. They've done this before with netscape navigator, I doubt they will try it again.

 

[PsychoFish]

While I can see how that could be lead into Counterfeit in some stretch , A lot of them have open peripheral patents and base patents and GNU patents that they are based on .

For example in a reverse sort scenario , what are the legalities on say a mouse ( computer peripheral ) this although is widely used as part of windows PC is not solely theirs. What happens if they don't like something Roccat makes .Is it their choice what one could or couldn't use

If Roccat stops shipping to South Africa because of political differences and Roccat requests that all new Roccat hardware should be deemed as "unauthorized" in South Africa they will submit a request to MS and have to supply the device identifiers. MS may then honour the request and bring down the ban hammer. That will result in any Roccat hardware with a specific device identifier to then end up as disabled for Windows 10 users in South Africa. This will only affect grey/parallel imports then in effect which is covered by the act. It's not that the manufacturer doesn't want you to use their hardware, they only want you to use the hardware that was intended for your market. This could (in the case of say a WiFi adapter) be because ICASA has requested the manufacturer to say not ship a specific version of a card/device to South Africa, the manufacturer will then go through the same process (if they want) and can request for the hardware to be disabled in specific regions.

This by the way is nothing new, and is being done sometimes for various reasons.

 

[Venom]

I know it isnt new but its becoming more of a pattern , and acceptable or accepted.

Personally I don't like it , between this and a few other gripes with Win 10 I think they are making the box way too small .

 

[Graal]

Microsoft has been trying to close their operating systems for a while now. Plenty of people voiced concerns about the move to a more closed operating system environment when Win8 came out.

 

[PsychoFish]

Microsoft has been trying to close their operating systems for a while now. Plenty of people voiced concerns about the move to a more closed operating system environment when Win8 came out.

Uhm, actually it's completely the opposite. MS has been opening up a lot more, although they will never release source code for many of their proprietary software the Windows 10, Windows Server 2012 R2, Azure, SQL, etc APIs are actually quite open and allow for developers to really tightly integrate into the MS stack.