Carmack blames PS3 for poor performance in RAGE
- Thread starter James
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DarthSWNT
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Dohc-WP
Ron Burgundy
thats the problem with all current consoles , 1st party devs are always able to get more out of the consoles (im sure they get better development toolkits)ie. Naughty dog, polyphony in sony's case or in nintendo's case retro studios, ND Cube etc. ms 1st party devs are not much to speak of (only turn 10 makes good games currently imo) so im sure ms gives everyone the same development tools
MOnk
New member
You should probably think about that statement again.
Why would Sony gives devs that are making cross platform games WORSE tools than their first party devs? So cross-platform games would always look worse on the PS3... that makes sense.
The reason first party devs often get better performance out of the hardware is because that is their sole focus and every decision they make about technical issue is tailored this single platform. When you go cross platform you kind of have to go middle of the road and because the 360 and PC are so close the 360 is generally the lead platform for many games. Sure you get SOME optimizations for other platforms but it's not the same thing as purpose built software.
It's the same reason why PC games aren't 10x better than console games even thought the hardware is capable of it, because you have to code for a staggering number of hardware configurations.
Dohc-WP
Ron Burgundy
the 360 and ps3 share the exact same core Powerprocessing unit so saying the xbox and pc are close is total bullocks (just because ms has created cross platform dev tools does not mean the 2 are close at all).
im not quoting a whole article but
like i said ! development tools are key, when nintendo released the n64 3rd party developers where also limited in their development kits (which where poor) and they had to create their own custom microcode to get the most out of the console.
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TL;DR = Sony are dicks.
MOnk
New member
PS3 = Cell Processor
360 = PowerPC
Anyway I didn't mean the hardware was similar I meant the software platforms were similar hence easier to port. Also the article you linked just said the PS3 dev kits (at launch) were shit and I can't say I have much argument against that, Sony have always lagged behind when it comes to software support and being developer friendly. However, you suggested that the dev kits for first party and 3rd party devs were different with the latter being purposely worse and that just makes no sense. Sony wants the PS3 versions to be the best they possibly can and often send platform specialists to developers to help get the PS3 version right.
Xero
Official Zombie Slayer
It seems that Carmack should stop blaming underperforming hardware for a terrible gaming experience
There is no use in developing a game for a system that has not been invented yet
If the PC and PS3 are struggling and you know for a fact that the game will struggle on that platform, accept that you will have one platform to release on and take the 60% profit knock that implies
Anyone remember Daikatana, he called it the greatest game ever made, sigh, that had issues on the then "Current" gen GFX Cards as well :/
The point is, if every other developer on the planet can get it right on all three platforms, and he can't, that speaks towards his team's ability to develop cross platform titles, not the perceived inferiority of two out of three of the biggest platforms ever released into the consumer market
There is no use in developing a game for a system that has not been invented yet
If the PC and PS3 are struggling and you know for a fact that the game will struggle on that platform, accept that you will have one platform to release on and take the 60% profit knock that implies
Anyone remember Daikatana, he called it the greatest game ever made, sigh, that had issues on the then "Current" gen GFX Cards as well :/
The point is, if every other developer on the planet can get it right on all three platforms, and he can't, that speaks towards his team's ability to develop cross platform titles, not the perceived inferiority of two out of three of the biggest platforms ever released into the consumer market
Dohc-WP
Ron Burgundy
Xenon is a CPU that is used in the Xbox 360 game console. The processor, internally codenamed "Waternoose", which was named after Henry J. Waternoose III in Monsters Inc. by IBM and XCPU by Microsoft, is based on IBM's PowerPC instruction set architecture, consisting of three independent processor cores on a single die. These cores are slightly modified versions of the PPE in the Cell processor used on the PlayStation 3.
The PPE was designed specifically for the Cell processor but during development, Microsoft approached IBM wanting a high performance processor core for its Xbox 360. IBM complied and made the tri-core Xenon processor, based on a slightly modified version of the PPE.
the cell is still a powerpc processor just with added spu's
console manufacturers will never give 3rd party devs full access to their hardware platforms. it might sound stupid but if they did and one of the 3rd party developers leak eg. code for the security system of a console alot of harm can be done, its similiar to how microsoft protect the windows operating system by not letting 3rd party devs access certain features of the operating system.
TBlaar
New member
ZAP_Tech
New member
I was so excited to get rage started reading reviews, and the excitement start lowering, the more JC talks and blames everything but himself the more i dont want to get the game... I really like the PS3 gameplay video and things but this man is making not want to play his game.
As for the Dev tools, i dont know it 1st party developers on both PS3 and Xbox can make it work, the 3rd party developers can too. Yes it would increase the development cycle of the game but it look better and they complain less about whose fault it is. I still think if you going to develop on all platforms do it right and don't rush the development cycle it hurts your game and the consumer in the end.
As for the Dev tools, i dont know it 1st party developers on both PS3 and Xbox can make it work, the 3rd party developers can too. Yes it would increase the development cycle of the game but it look better and they complain less about whose fault it is. I still think if you going to develop on all platforms do it right and don't rush the development cycle it hurts your game and the consumer in the end.
MOnk
New member
There are great looking console exclusive games, there are great looking multiplatform games. The consoles are 5-6years old now, people KNOW what they can and can't do, the excuse that the hardware is deficient in some manner and that is why your game doesn't run properly is BULLOCKS. If something doesn't work like it should it's because you didn't make it properly, the hardware didn't change, you knew what it could do, no excuse.
Here is the problem with coming into a console generation 5years late as an engine developer, you haven't had the iteration and refinement that other people have had. UE3 had big issue with texture pop-in when it first landed, albeit I would say not as bad, but that was year 1 and people could look past that, now it's not so easy to forgive.
Here is the problem with coming into a console generation 5years late as an engine developer, you haven't had the iteration and refinement that other people have had. UE3 had big issue with texture pop-in when it first landed, albeit I would say not as bad, but that was year 1 and people could look past that, now it's not so easy to forgive.
ZAP_Tech
New member
True people did look past it cause the tech was new and people expect issues cause everything new is not hundred percent ever... Thats why they change they get made better till they cant change anymore.
Yes ID is five years late and you make a point that they should well have known what dated consoles can do... And should have followed EA with BF3 where the PC get a top notch version not some console port... and the console version optimised for the consoles. I think that they should have rather delayed the game if they new there was issues and fixed the issues, instead of releasing something so broken and then blaming everything from manufacturers drivers problems to actual hardware. It makes no sense, i just seeing a whining developer that didnt know how to ask for help.
You know I'm not easy to miss an oppurtunity to bash those f***s!Hahaha, Sony troll strikes again!
The worst version by far is the PC. Seriously large portions of players cant even launch the game. Another significant portion can launch but not play due to texture corruption, pop-ins, and so much more.
Next worst is PS3. It suffers all the corruption and popin problems of the PC, except a little less of it. But it's still there. Oh, and apparently (unconfirmed) it often crashes on saving too, just like PC.
The Xbox version is actually fine. Haven't heard anything bad about that 1 yet.
Kinda seems like they only developed on the Xbox and did a last-minute port to the other 2...
Dare I say that DNF > Rage
Come to think of it... Yes, you may!