James
MyGaming Alumnus
Devil’s Advocate: Does Ubisoft have a point? (Column)
Ubisoft say piracy breaks PC sales – so let’s look at PC sales.
Ubisoft say piracy breaks PC sales – so let’s look at PC sales.
Devil’s Advocate: Does Ubisoft have a point? (Column)
- Thread starter James
- Start date
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
I was actually thinking about this last night, while I agree the blaming it on piracy is a bit of a dick move, surely they must have a reason for choosing this course of action. Nice read and glad to see there are still objective views out there.
judgefredd_za
New member
Yeah but smaller companies who develop games for the PC ONLY have sold a lot of copies and don't implement stupid DRM and then make public outcries whining on and on about piracy.
STALKER (GSC) sold 2 million copies
The Witcher sold 500 000+ copies and continues to sell on GOG etc, CD Projekt continue to support the game after the release (enhanced edition for Witcher 2) and allow activation on many PC's - but they don't moan about piracy.
Ubisoft should accept that they develop average games with a crappy DRM that deter people from buying their software.
DenSweeP
New member
I don't doubt that consoles will outsell PCs and clearly they do, but what I would like to know is if developers actually took the time and effort and made a game for PC, what would their figures be? Yes, they would likely still be less than consoles, but would it be so low as to not justify making it at all? Surely profit is profit? If one developer could unilaterally prove that they will lose money by making a game for PC and then porting it to console, fine, I'll shut up, but the problem is no one has ever done so.
And one other interesting little fact I've noticed is that in ALL of these console vs PC game debates, PC piracy is always the biggest culprit, but NEVER, not once have I seen a developer mention how many sales they actually lose to console piracy. Is this because they know that console piracy might actually be worse than PC? Is it because they don't wish to advertise that it is being done and thus enlighten others than it can be done? Or is it because they realise that admitting it would completely negate their entire argument of why they have screwed over the PC community?
And one other interesting little fact I've noticed is that in ALL of these console vs PC game debates, PC piracy is always the biggest culprit, but NEVER, not once have I seen a developer mention how many sales they actually lose to console piracy. Is this because they know that console piracy might actually be worse than PC? Is it because they don't wish to advertise that it is being done and thus enlighten others than it can be done? Or is it because they realise that admitting it would completely negate their entire argument of why they have screwed over the PC community?
Graal
New member
Ironically, sales for the last three Ubisoft games were so low, probably due to the fact that people don't want to be forced to deal with UPlay. You can't even begin to compare modern Ubisoft PC sales to sales from any other publisher, because Ubisoft's shitty DRM plays such a huge role in whether people are willing to buy their games or not. No other DRM, not even Steam or Origin, makes for such a big deciding factor when deciding to buy a game or not.
Graal
New member
That point has no bearing on the argument at all, no offense. Developing the game on the PC is not nearly the same as developing it for the PC.
OmegaFenix
The Legendary Troll Hunter
Wasn't going to say anything less I be flamed for being "a Console Fanboy" but was thinking along those same lines.
OGBuzz
New member
youre absolutely right...thing is...imagine if Microsoft today decide, ag no we not going to provide software for pc any more because of piracy, ok granted they don't really have anywhere else to go to anyway
But in comparison, its hard to find one, but if i can liken it to something remotely similar its like:
"the cooks at a restaurant make wonderful food for the customers and even staff alike, yet the cooks themselves may never be allowed to have any of that food at all, even though they create the food"
its my best comparison...
Just seems they like lambaste the PC , even though yes for Dev....its partially ironic in a sense....
But thats their choice, like i say, take PC out the equation if you want.....im tied of hearing this piracy story also though ;|
MOnk
New member
PLEASE STOP USING VGCHARTZ
It's unreliable at best and misleading at worst.
Just look at Skyrim, it's only reporting 555k sales for PC yet there were 270k concurrent players on Day 1. Are you telling me half of all Skyrim players bought the game on day 1, not to mention discussions about concurrency vs projected totals.
Having a discussion based on such terribly inaccurate data is pointless.
Edit:
Battlefield 3 Online Stats
Global stats
PC online 38 095 [5.3%]
PS3 online 39 135 [1.6%]
360 online 26 110 [0.8%]
[% of total population]
So those stats suggest a game which is heavily focused on multiplayer has 5x more PC players per population than 360 or PS3. Once again a figure I find it hard to believe, unless you think 4/5 console players bought BF3 for the single player.
It's unreliable at best and misleading at worst.
Just look at Skyrim, it's only reporting 555k sales for PC yet there were 270k concurrent players on Day 1. Are you telling me half of all Skyrim players bought the game on day 1, not to mention discussions about concurrency vs projected totals.
Having a discussion based on such terribly inaccurate data is pointless.
Edit:
Battlefield 3 Online Stats
Global stats
PC online 38 095 [5.3%]
PS3 online 39 135 [1.6%]
360 online 26 110 [0.8%]
[% of total population]
So those stats suggest a game which is heavily focused on multiplayer has 5x more PC players per population than 360 or PS3. Once again a figure I find it hard to believe, unless you think 4/5 console players bought BF3 for the single player.
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fayainz
New member
I just feel that there is a far greater user base when it comes to Console's as opposed to PC's, and at the end of the day the gaming industry is just that, an industry. Gaming is so huge that profits become paramount and trickle down into all the decisions that mainly Publishers have to make. They have to turn greater profit's every year in order to attract investor's, and this can impact any gamer when it no longer becomes "profitable" to release on any particular platform.
It's just the nature of the best.
I do believe Ubisoft has ironically shot themselves in the foot, buy implementing such restrictive DRM for paying customer's, and then seeing sales figures decline. It almost feels forced that I purchase the next Ubisoft DRM packed game on either of my consoles just to avoid the headache.
Console piracy is by no mean's hard, in essence it's even easier than PC piracy, since there is no crack needed, no ISO mounting software, no instructions on how to crack, bypass activation. It's simply a duplicate of the original game, that runs perfectly on your console. The only risk is getting banned from Live/PSN. Not to mention that Xbox 360 games can be found on torrent sites prior to release dates, and all pirates have to do is download it and burn to DVD? or better yet copy it to their Console's HDD? Excuse my ignorance if that is anything but easy.
I could go pirate an Xbox360 game right now, but I won't because hell, I don't want to get banned from XBL, and I much prefer the online experience, same goes for my PS3. The same can be said for the PC, but I actually like giving my money to the developer's who support the PC platform, since it is my preferred platform of choice.
There is no avoiding piracy, like our company IT manager always says, if it's made of 1's and 0's, there's always a way.
It's just the nature of the best.
I do believe Ubisoft has ironically shot themselves in the foot, buy implementing such restrictive DRM for paying customer's, and then seeing sales figures decline. It almost feels forced that I purchase the next Ubisoft DRM packed game on either of my consoles just to avoid the headache.
Console piracy is by no mean's hard, in essence it's even easier than PC piracy, since there is no crack needed, no ISO mounting software, no instructions on how to crack, bypass activation. It's simply a duplicate of the original game, that runs perfectly on your console. The only risk is getting banned from Live/PSN. Not to mention that Xbox 360 games can be found on torrent sites prior to release dates, and all pirates have to do is download it and burn to DVD? or better yet copy it to their Console's HDD? Excuse my ignorance if that is anything but easy.
I could go pirate an Xbox360 game right now, but I won't because hell, I don't want to get banned from XBL, and I much prefer the online experience, same goes for my PS3. The same can be said for the PC, but I actually like giving my money to the developer's who support the PC platform, since it is my preferred platform of choice.
There is no avoiding piracy, like our company IT manager always says, if it's made of 1's and 0's, there's always a way.
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Steam reported 230k - I think thats what you mean. Tell me how you would pirate something on Steam???
Ubisoft's moaning is like a car company moaning that nobody wants to buy their unreliable, badly built cars that require you insert a 12 inch rectal probe prior to using. No thanks Ubi, I'm good playing games made by people who dont hate me.
Really, piracy is bad, but A) companies still make a living from it, B) they do so without using DRM. So considering Ubisoft doesnt really make what I'd call good games, and do terrible jobs of porting them, I'm not seeing much of a loss here. Dont let the door hit you on the way out Ubisoft.
fayainz
New member
There are often cracked Steam releases of games where certain steam files are "patched" or whatever.
There were also methods of viewing the entire steam games catalog and downloading the games you like, but they can only be played in offline mode. So piracy is everywhere.
I know, my point is that for Steam to know you are playing the game, you must be online. Yes Steam games can be cracked, but if so you cant use them with Steam. If Steam knew what they were playing, then their games were not cracked.
Also the 555k sales figure does not include Steam, so that means sales could well have been north of 800k in like the first week.
qornea
Much write, very gaming
Yeah, the figures they present don't take into account digital sales (mostly because DDs don't release their figures) so I always take the figures with a pinch a salt.
But, they do provide good context for the argument - even if they're not on the nose, they couldn't get away with being entirely off-the-wall, and there is a big difference between PC and Console sales. I doubt even Steam's figures would bolster those numbers enough to make it a negligible discrepency.
If 38 095 is 5.3% of the PC population...100% would be 718 774.
39 135 at 1.6% of PS3 population means the total is 2 445 938, and 26 110 at 0,8% of the 360 population means the total is 3 263 750.
Those figures aren't that far off from what VG Chartz says.
SO yeah. Until such time as studios, developers and publishers release their sales figures on a regular basis, the calculated estimates VG Chartz provides is the best we can work with.
But yeah, it's by no means an absolute fact.
Lycanthrope
New member
Read the rest: http://kotaku.com/5862465/finally-someone-talks-common-sense-about-pc-piracy
Thank you, Kotaku and GOG!
As for Quinton... I'm no longer speaking to you.
qornea
Much write, very gaming
I posed the questions, didn't sell it as fact
It's an interesting discussion point, and in my personal capacity do not agree with Ubisoft's knee-jerk reactions to PC gamers, or their interpretation of the data.They say "PC sales are bad, so obviously the PC market doesn't want us" - but the issue is beyond sales figures - that's the standpoint. The figures given are for context as to what developers are seeing, and what they're using as ammo for their arguments.
Alan
New member
It's thanks to people like Trevor Longino I still have faith.
My first computer, a Commodore 64, was accompanied by a box full of pirated games. There wasn't a day that went by on the schoolyard in the 90s when at least one of my friends wasn't swapping a bundle of 3.5-inch disks. It's been an age-old problem, and always will be, so to pretend it's suddenly only a major problem now, and either introduce busted DRM or not release PC games at all as a result, is defeatist at best and disingenuous at worst.
and yet games were still produced for PC. There were no pathetic excuses that games had to be "streamlined" for "commercial reasons" either to justify selling out a game's loyal fan base.
Oh noes the silent treatment.
I'm tempted to put him on ignore myself.
Perhaps if they produced games of quality that cater to PC gamers results wouldn't be so "bad".
Again by what standard are sales "bad". Compared to console or compared to what PC games sales have been in the past.
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