Used game sales are killing single player games

[James]

Used game sales are killing single player games

Retailers are ordering less single player games as a result of second hand sales

 

[Ryansta]

I want to know if the actual game programmer is poor? Like does he/she struggle to get through the month?

Gaming is run as a business now so understandably everyone needs to get paid, but lately games require subs, pay to win schemes are added, DLC released daily, sub standard releases are made with half finished products yet and version 2.5's more than a version 3. They complain when people try and legal play their games in the most affordable way for them. As a consumer is lose lose

 

[Tsar]

This is a load. They just want to squeeze as much money out from us.

Soon having second hand games will be considered pirating :-/

 

[Lupus]

That's what gets me the DLC, a game is released and not even a month later DLC is there for 800 to 1200msp, so it's another 80 to 100 bucks to add to the game. Ridiculous when we want to try play things legally they moan at us.

 

[Graal]

That's total bullshit. In fact, the gaming industry has never had it better than it currently does.

 

[OmegaFenix]

Used game sales are killing single player games

Retailers are ordering less single player games as a result of second hand sales

I read this yesterday on Gamasutra and must say the man has a point.

I want to know if the actual game programmer is poor? Like does he/she struggle to get through the month?

Gaming is run as a business now so understandably everyone needs to get paid, but lately games require subs, pay to win schemes are added, DLC released daily, sub standard releases are made with half finished products yet and version 2.5's more than a version 3. They complain when people try and legal play their games in the most affordable way for them. As a consumer is lose lose

Contrary to popular believe most Devs dont make millions, the avarage UK Game Dev Salary is £30K per anum, after tax and other deductions that leaves you with about £1900 a month, which really isn't that much. (Source).
Only the biggest releases break even the rest either just make it or make a loss. You have to consider product licencing, me and a friend are using Unity to develop a project as part of our respective game dev courses. The Pro version of this engine is $1500. Licencing Unreal, CryEngine often run into the tens of thousands. Publishing on Xbox carries a £40K fee.

Now if you put all that together developing a B-Grade game for PC alone could cost you anything up to £250K if you take salaries, licenses, lawyers fees, marketing and equipment into consideration. DLC, Subs, Micro transaction etc are all ways of getting more money out of a title in the long run. Sure the big publishers like Activision & EA make a profit but they have literally hundreds of studios and release dozens of titles a year and we have seen that even they aren't above financial trouble, THQ recently went into administration.

As for sub standard releases and half finished products, at a recent industry event held at BAFTA here in London, 3 industry vets basically told 2 of 3 aspiring studios pitching their ideas, and the 100 or so Game Development Students, to "release what you have, start generating income, and then add content. With no-money coming in it is harder and harder to maintain a high quality standard." This is as true for small indie studios as it is for Bethesda or Infinity Ward. Take too long and the publisher, board of directors, shareholders cut funding. No funding, no game.

 

[OmegaFenix]

That's what gets me the DLC, a game is released and not even a month later DLC is there for 800 to 1200msp, so it's another 80 to 100 bucks to add to the game. Ridiculous when we want to try play things legally they moan at us.

Since when is DLC a must have? Gaming is a luxury, if you can't afford it then you dont do it.

That's total bullshit. In fact, the gaming industry has never had it better than it currently does.

12 Studios that Died in 2011

THQ in administration.

GAME group (Largest European Gaming Retailer) on the verge of Entering Administration.

Countless Small Devs shut up shop.

Yes Gaming is really living the dream.

Yes Skyrim & MW3 each made Millions, MW3 a bit more than that, but other than a few bright points its been a pretty grim year.

 

[Graal]

OVER the past two decades the video-games business has gone from a cottage industry selling to a few niche customers to a fully grown branch of the entertainment industry. According to PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), a consulting firm, the global video-game market was worth around $56 billion last year, and has grown by over 60% since 2006, when the Nintendo Wii console was launched. The gaming industry is more than twice the size of the recorded-music industry, nearly a quarter more than the magazine business and about three-fifths the size of the film industry. PwC predicts that video games will be the fastest-growing form of media over the next few years, with sales rising to $82 billion by 2015. The biggest market is America, whose consumers this year are expected to spend $14.1 billion on games, mostly on the console variety. Consoles also dominate in Britain, the fifth-largest gaming market. In other parts of Europe, and particularly Germany, PC games are more popular. China has overtaken Japan to become the second-biggest market, and is one of the fastest-growing, with sales rising by 20% last year.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2011/12/daily-chart-0

The gaming industry is enormous. It's making cash by the bucketloads. If it can overtake even the music industry in America, how can it be getting 'killed'.

The only things being killed by second-hand sales are smaller developers specializing in niche markets. And that's been the case for years already. Smaller devs enter and exit the market all the time. It's not something that started recently. You find the exact same thing in most media industries.

Hell, I'm not surprised David Braben is feeling the crunch, he makes Kinect games for children. I can't imagine there's a lot of cash to be had there.

The bigger companies are raking in the cash. They barely feel the impact of second-hand sales. Singleplayer games aren't going to get killed by second-hand sales anytime soon. It will only kill the occasional smaller developer.

The industry might eventually get pruned until only the bigger players are left, but to state that second-hand sales is killing SP is really asinine.

 

[steaksauce]

Since when is DLC a must have? Gaming is a luxury, if you can't afford it then you dont do it.



12 Studios that Died in 2011

THQ in administration.

GAME group (Largest European Gaming Retailer) on the verge of Entering Administration.

Countless Small Devs shut up shop.

Yes Gaming is really living the dream.

Yes Skyrim & MW3 each made Millions, MW3 a bit more than that, but other than a few bright points its been a pretty grim year.

I agree.
Considering the price of the alternative forms of entertainment to gaming and how much time and enjoyment you get out of it I really don't mind paying a couple hundred bucks and don't mind supporting the devs.
Gaming is a business like someone already pointed out and its not about the dev going hungry or being poor, if it isn't profitable then its obviously going to be shut down. I wouldn't shed a tear the day pre-owned got shut down because that is really a big part of the problem in the gaming industry these days.

 

[MOnk]

THQ in administration.

GAME group (Largest European Gaming Retailer) on the verge of Entering Administration.

Countless Small Devs shut up shop.

Yes Gaming is really living the dream.

Yes Skyrim & MW3 each made Millions, MW3 a bit more than that, but other than a few bright points its been a pretty grim year.

I'm not sure how you can say it was a grim year, studios open and close all the time that's the way the industry is set up, especially under the big publisher paradigm. Adding THQ's problems is actually quite a counter to the argument that core games are dying, THQ is in trouble because they dramatically overreached with their uDraw tablets on the 360/PS3 and got left with this huge inventory of unsold product burning a massive hole in their pockets. Not because their games didn't sell well.

So of the 12 studios that closed, half made crappy games, some others were closed because of publisher troubles and the rest were closed because the publishers that bought them didn't actually know what to do with them.

I don't see the industry being in trouble or anywhere near it, a troubling trend I do see, and it's been around for a while, is too much money going to publishers and not enough going to developers.

 

[OmegaFenix]

The bigger companies are raking in the cash. They barely feel the impact of second-hand sales. Singleplayer games aren't going to get killed by second-hand sales anytime soon. It will only kill the occasional smaller developer.

The industry might eventually get pruned until only the bigger players are left, but to state that second-hand sales is killing SP is really asinine.

Which is why they keep bringing up Pre-owned sales, or releasing exclusive content tied to an online pass or lock Multiplayer away behind and online pass. If they weren't noticing the "small" dent in their money bags then way go through all the trouble, spark all the controversy? Surely it would be easier to not bring in these measures if the return was negligible.

In some cases, it's killed them dead. I know publishers who have stopped games in development because most shops won't reorder stock after initial release, because they rely on the churn from the resales," said Braben. "It's killing single player games in particular, because they will get preowned, and it means your day one sales are it, making them super high risk."

This is true, the pre-owned shelves of the HMV & Game here in Oxford Street are lined with SP games and they out number MP titles 4 to 1. You hardly ever see a copy of Modern Warfare 3 or BF3 pre-owned. But Kingdom's of Amalur, Skyrim and other mainly SP games often appear on the shelves less than a week after release. Why is every game getting a tacked on Multi-player component? To try and keep money coming in, if every time someone buys a pre-owned copy of Mass Effect 3 they need to fork out $10 dollars for an Online pass, at least the Publisher/Dev is getting something back.

 

[OmegaFenix]

I'm not sure how you can say it was a grim year, studios open and close all the time that's the way the industry is set up, especially under the big publisher paradigm. Adding THQ's problems is actually quite a counter to the argument that core games are dying, THQ is in trouble because they dramatically overreached with their uDraw tablets on the 360/PS3 and got left with this huge inventory of unsold product burning a massive hole in their pockets. Not because their games didn't sell well.

So of the 12 studios that closed, half made crappy games, some others were closed because of publisher troubles and the rest were closed because the publishers that bought them didn't actually know what to do with them.

I don't see the industry being in trouble or anywhere near it, a troubling trend I do see, and it's been around for a while, is too much money going to publishers and not enough going to developers.

I am sure the hundreds of people now unemployed by those 12 studios, or the studios that got projects cancelled due to THQ's financial issue and may now be in financial troubles themselves would disagree with you.

 

[Wyzak]

They aren't really losing sales. They are counting their eggs before they hatch. If I can't afford to buy the game I will try to pick it up second hand, if I can't find it I will let it go by. I won't NECESSARILY pay more to get it new...

 

[Weasley]

saying second hand is kill SP gaming is the same as say piracy is killing gaming. The problem is more to do with lack of competitiveness in modern company's. They all just want monopolies.

 

[Graal]

Which is why they keep bringing up Pre-owned sales, or releasing exclusive content tied to an online pass or lock Multiplayer away behind and online pass. If they weren't noticing the "small" dent in their money bags then way go through all the trouble, spark all the controversy? Surely it would be easier to not bring in these measures if the return was negligible.

And publishers always tell the truth and have never been known to exaggerate things, right? Do you see Activision or EA, or even Ubisoft closing their doors anytime soon? They only sold a handful of their flagship games last year, right?

I reiterate. The only people being significantly impacted by second-hand sales are the small publishers, and that has been the case for years already. It's no new development.

The main reason THQ had to lay off dev houses was because their games were spread too thin across too many niche markets. Just look at their children's games. They had a truckload of devs constantly doing children's games for children's movie tie-ins. They closed all those studios down first.

I am sure the hundreds of people now unemployed by those 12 studios, or the studios that got projects cancelled due to THQ's financial issue and may now be in financial troubles themselves would disagree with you.

Isolated individuals =! the gaming industry.

The second-hand market did not kill the music industry, it did not kill the movie industry and it will not kill the gaming industry.

 

[MOnk]

I am sure the hundreds of people now unemployed by those 12 studios, or the studios that got projects cancelled due to THQ's financial issue and may now be in financial troubles themselves would disagree with you.

Sorry but that's like saying every unemployed actor, screen writer, musician or artist is some indication that those industries are dying.

The better question to ask really is how long do those people remain unemployed, for most I would guess not long.

 

[The Joker]

Sorry but that's like saying every unemployed actor, screen writer, musician or artist is some indication that those industries are dying.

The better question to ask really is how long do those people remain unemployed, for most I would guess not long.

This, they leave one place and walk into another. This is how its been for years, its only now for some or other odd reason that they're pushing this so called issue. The 2nd hand sales of games is key, a lot of people are not in the position to spend a lot of cash on games, so instead of buying pirated games which can be bought for like R80 they end up buying 2nd hand games for R250 or whatever the case may be.

I think if they want to do something about it, make the resellers of 2nd hand games pay a fee to the publishers/devs.
$10 per title or something along those lines.

 

[MOnk]

I think if they want to do something about it, make the resellers of 2nd hand games pay a fee to the publishers/devs.
$10 per title or something along those lines.

Well that's essentially what online passes are, except more optional, yet people have been bitching about them since the start.

 

[Graal]

Also, in case people were forgetting, we're still recovering from a global economic depression. It's not going all that peachy in any industry. It can by no means be considered a growing trend. At most a slight dip.

 

[The Joker]

Well that's essentially what online passes are, except more optional, yet people have been bitching about them since the start.

Yeah but I think the Shops selling the 2nd hand games should fork out the $$.
They are the ones turning a fat profit. Make them pay for the online pass.