Diablo 3 auction house to be fixed, loot drops improved

[Pooky]

Seems it's easier to just bandwagon these days than step back and carefully consider things on your own. Infographics and 'everyone' complaining about something obviously means there's something wrong with it, despite the fact that a massive proportion of those complaining couldn't explain in any specific detail to you why they believe something is wrong.



Doing it wrong and/or quite simply lying. I had a big reply typed up to this, but the paragaph up top here pretty much summarizes it. I don't believe you actually know what you're talking about and so am disinclined from bothering.

It was a decent debate but now it's going downhill....

I'm fine with you having an opinion about the game, there are a lot of players that love it.

For me however, I just don't enjoy it as much as Diablo 2, and while I may visit it again a bit later, at the moment I don't like it. Just because my/our opinion differs to yours doesn't mean we are wrong, just our own view.

 

[nanonyous]

Just because my/our opinion differs to yours doesn't mean we are wrong, just our own view.

I can appreciate that your views are expressed as opinion - Graal's, however, are expressed as absolutes.

And he's quite simply lying or managed to do it so horrifically wrong, his opinion couldn't hold water any better than a colander, if he truly had lvl10 white items equipped by the time he first faced Diablo in D3.

I joined the D3 party about a month after its original release, if I recall. I've played it on and off since then and would be perfectly happy to record a playthrough from lvl1 to 60, beating Diablo on Inferno, not touching the AH once, just to prove Graal wrong - because that's how confident I am that he is, quite simply, wrong.

 

[Graal]

So you're essentially saying that my eyes and brain belied me? Really now. I had to go get gear off the AH before I faced Diablo because otherwise I would have fought him with white shoulders and white leggings, if I recall correctly. But yes, clearly it makes a lot of sense that I would lie about this. I stand so much to gain from lying about a videogame. Clearly the fact that thousands of people experienced things similar to me is also just a complete and total lie.

Please, get real. Apparently drops have been improved in the 10 months since I finished the game, but that doesn't change the fact that at the time I finished the game, drops were abysmal and were a product of Blizzard trying to coerce people into using the AH. Just like stats and skills being entirely gear-dependent is a subtle way of coercing people into using the AH. Let's not even get started on how if it wasn't for Blizzard trying to coerce people into using the AH, we likely would have been given an option to play Diablo 3 offline.

To claim that the AH has no effect on the rest of the game is so blatantly and utterly naive that I can only chuckle. The AH's influence is apparent throughout the entire game.

Regardless, I don't really know I'm even bothering to argue about Auction-house: The Game. Even if you put aside the issues with the AH, the game itself is so utterly and totally mediocre that I cannot understand why people would play it over the vast host of other, better hack 'n slash games out there. Path of Exile is free and Torchlight 2 is only $20. Diablo 3 is the game where Blizzard showed that they no longer care about the quality of their games. I guess it's a miracle that SC2 doesn't suck, even though they're totally shitting on their customers by charging them $60 for a few new campaign missions every few years.

 

[nanonyous]

Apparently drops have been improved in the 10 months since I finished the game, but that doesn't change the fact that at the time I finished the game, drops were abysmal and were a product of Blizzard trying to coerce people into using the AH.

So basically, while we're talking about the state of the game now, you're busy focusing on the state of the game then. Which obviously validates the basis of your entire argument.

The first time I killed Diablo was around this time last year, so I also did so roughly around the time you did. At the time, I had absolutely no shortage of blue gear dropping that was vastly superior to any white gear that was dropping, and also quite frequently got yellow gear dropping, though obviously not as often as one can have these days with monster power and the since-revised drop tables.

So basically, I'm calling bullshit on your claims or telling you outright that you were doing it even more wrong than I did. While I had no shortage of stuff dropping, I didn't know what I was doing as well as I had done in Diablo 2, and so I did visit the AH. I didn't do so because I wasn't getting good drops, though - I did so because I didn't know what I was doing, and so kept buying stuff off the AH to experiment with. Cheap stuff, mind you - 15k gold or less, which paled in comparison to how much gold I was getting from monsters, selling stuff to vendors and selling stuff on the AH myself.

I wasn't playing with any of my friends at the time, or we'd probably have traded gear - y'know, kinda like a one to one 'auction house' where I offer something and they decide how much they're willing to pay for it, or they do the same. The moment I started playing with people in public games, people that knew what they were doing far better than I did, I kept getting great gear from them for free. Gear that was essentially junk to them versus what was dropping for them and they were looking for to sell on the AH or improve their own gear with. Amazing how they were getting these drops from a game that only dropped white leggings and shoulders by the time one was fighting Diablo on Normal difficulty, huh?

Let's not even get started on how if it wasn't for Blizzard trying to coerce people into using the AH, we likely would have been given an option to play Diablo 3 offline.

Ladders (which, admittedly, the game still doesn't have a year after release) are wholly dependent on a system that doesn't allow for any cheating by way of duping gear. Despite Blizzard's best efforts initially in trying to find a way to make it possible to play the game offline (during closed alpha and beta testing, they had offline play options, by my understanding), people still found ways to dupe stuff. The only way for them to control -though not render impossible to achieve- duping was to end up with an online-only model of play.

There are those that argue that they could have simply had two completely separate forms of play that cannot ever be used together; one where you've only your offline and LAN play but cannot use the AHs at all and cannot play online with those characters at all, and then the online-only forms of play - and I'm all for that - but they elected to simply not have an offline mode at all. This lack of an offline mode, however, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the AH.

Granted, by allowing LAN play people could use VPNs to play 'online' and thus forge a duping-friendly online community of sorts, which is purpose defeating. It could also foster a new community of out-of-game auction houses specific to such VPN-based play where people could get scammed into buying duped gear that may glitch out at some point and/or be made to pay without ever receiving their stuff - which could become a tech support nightmare for Blizzard/Activision since there will inevitably be idiots

Just like stats and skills being entirely gear-dependent is a subtle way of coercing people into using the AH.

I don't know where you got the idea that skills are 'entirely gear-dependent' from. If anything, there's very little ability to modify your character's capabilities based on what gear choices you make in comparison to Diablo 2 - one of the ways in which they dumbed things down. Yes, you can get a quiver for a Demon Hunter that has up to a 10% increase in critical hit chance for a given ability -which is great if you're using that skill as your primary attack- but that doesn't exactly end up making your character that much 'better' than a different build that doesn't even use that skill to begin with for a given set of gameplay situations. That skill might be better suited to dealing with massive blobs of weak enemies as opposed to a single really strong monster - or the inverse could be true, which might be the opposite of what you want.

Oh, and let's not forget, as your wonderful infographic points out in the first place, that's what people loved about Diablo 2; the fact that you could use gear as a supplement (read: sometimes, a very important differentiating factor) to whatever skill build your character had *GASP!*

To claim that the AH has no effect on the rest of the game is so blatantly and utterly naive that I can only chuckle. The AH's influence is apparent throughout the entire game.

To claim that the entire game revolves around the AH is ignorant and I am now going to record a playthrough from the beginning of Normal to the end of Hell difficulty without touching the AH once to prove you wrong. At least, I'll begin as soon as these EU login issues are rectified.

I'll be uploading the videos as I go to my Youtube channel, so even if you don't watch it, it'll be available as a public record of your being wrong.

* At login, the amount of experience and every piece of equipment will be listed to prove there were no changes since the last time the character was played
* At logout, the amount of experience and every piece of equipment will be listed for the aforementioned
* It will be an entirely single-player playthrough starting at MP10 with zero gear - MP will be adjusted when things get too difficult with a given set of gear for a given area, since there are huge monster level jumps for certain areas derived from MP, such as when one enters the Highlands Passage
* Only gear that has been picked up and crafted will be used. In this sense the fact that I've already purchased just about all yellow recipes from the AH will come into play, although it's worth noting that this was done with less than 250k gold in total, which is a pittance compared to what you can farm by the time you're playing at Hell or Inferno difficulty from just monster gold drops. That being said, the chances of me even crafting anything is very low.
* If I do craft any gear, I'll use only materials gained from salvaged gear I've looted
* I'll be buying crap in order to zero my gold balance so that I'm essentially starting 'from scratch'
* I'll only be using gems I pick up during the course of the recording

The first video ought to be up by the end of the week, depending on just how long it takes before Blizzard sort out these login issues.

Even if you put aside the issues with the AH, the game itself is so utterly and totally mediocre that I cannot understand why people would play it over the vast host of other, better hack 'n slash games out there. Path of Exile is free and Torchlight 2 is only $20.

PoE only became publicly available for play about half a year after D3 launched. I've played it a fair bit and it causes me significant pain in my mouse hand (I have arthritis). Why it does so more than other games, I don't know, but there it is. It was also the final nail in the coffin for a friend of a friend's development of RSI, and after a week's study in a lab where he did what he'd normally do it was found that PoE was, in fact, the single greatest contributor towards it after driving with a car that doesn't have power-steering and has a very stiff wheel.

Similarly, Torchlight only came out about half a year (again) after D3 did.

So yes. You're right. People should've completely held off of buying D3, because we all knew, without a doubt, that both PoE and Torchlight 2 would be vastly superior games when they finally landed and that Torchlight 2 would cost just $20 at launch (which wasn't known for sure until a fair amount of time after D3 launched, mind you).

People should also completely stop playing a game they enjoy and play one of the alternatives just because there are people out there that don't like what they're playing when those alternatives are available.


These recordings are going to be fun to make. Who knows, I might even stretch for completing the game on Inferno difficulty just to rub it in afterwards - after all, I have time.

 

[Pooky]

Ish just got real

 

[The Joker]

Diablo 3 was never and will never be in the same league as Diablo II.
Blizzard made sure of that. D3 was a complete disaster at launch, server issues, pathetic drops (Because blizzard wanted people to use the AH) The whole game was focused on the AH and spending real cash to get anywhere. You were completely gear dependent, skills made no difference whatsoever. Party play was a utter joke and sadly that was the best part about the game. Then one of the biggest problems came. The balancing of classes.

You just geared your toon, finally you can farm end game content and then blizzard decided to nerf that toon, and because toons couldn't really share gear you were then left with items that cost a fortune and then over night became worthless. Then there were the countless secret patches and loot rate changes. The pathetic security issues. The omg useless support.

I stopped playing D3 months ago, yet I still find myself firing up D2 LOD every now and again, and although graphically its poor compared to D3, its stomps D3 into the ground on pretty much everything else.

I have no idea how things are now, but when I played the game was a joke and a disaster and it'll be dead in a year from now.

 

[Graal]

To claim that the entire game revolves around the AH is ignorant and I am now going to record a playthrough from the beginning of Normal to the end of Hell difficulty without touching the AH once to prove you wrong. At least, I'll begin as soon as these EU login issues are rectified.

Yes, you are going to 'prove' me 'wrong' by playing the game more than a year after release when the worst of the drop rates have been fixed after thousands of people complained about it. I hope you also play the game in offline mode and that you increase your stats through assigning attribute points and not through using equipment. I've cited all three those things as ways Blizzard tried to coerce people into using the AH, so please, prove me wrong.

Seeing as you seem intent on doing the impossible, while you're at it why don't you time travel and go back to the day the game released and then record a playthrough there and see what drop rates looked like then?

Diablo 3 was designed, from the ground up, to coerce players into using the AH. This is reflected in the drop rates we saw at release, the fact that it is online-only and the fact that all stats are entirely gear-dependent. Even if they buffed gear drops after people complained terribly about it, they didn't remove the online-only requirement and they your character's stats are still entirely gear dependent. I don't really know why you're on this little 'crusade' to prove me 'wrong,' but power to you if it makes you feel better. Even if I did bother to watch your videos (which I won't), I can assure you my opinion will remain largely unchanged. Diablo 3 is centered around the AH.

PoE only became publicly available for play about half a year after D3 launched. I've played it a fair bit and it causes me significant pain in my mouse hand (I have arthritis). Why it does so more than other games, I don't know, but there it is. It was also the final nail in the coffin for a friend of a friend's development of RSI, and after a week's study in a lab where he did what he'd normally do it was found that PoE was, in fact, the single greatest contributor towards it after driving with a car that doesn't have power-steering and has a very stiff wheel.

Holy shit, haha.

These recordings are going to be fun to make. Who knows, I might even stretch for completing the game on Inferno difficulty just to rub it in afterwards - after all, I have time.

Rub it in? That would assume you're going to prove anything with this little vendetta of yours first, which you're not, considering stats are still gear-dependent, the game is still online-only and you can't go back in time and change the utterly abysmal (utterly abysmal might actually be an understatement) loot drops we got at release.

But have fun. I must say, I'm remarkably flattered that someone is so bothered by my opinion that they would go to such lengths to prove me 'wrong.'

 

[The Joker]

http://techland.time.com/2013/03/28/diablo-3-director-admits-auction-houses-really-hurt-game/
http://www.gamespot.com/news/blizzard-boss-tells-diablo-iii-community-to-direct-blame-at-him-6402683
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/05/editorial-diablo-3-auction-house-do-not-post/


I can post 50 more if you'd like.

 

[nanonyous]

Yes, you are going to 'prove' me 'wrong' by playing the game more than a year after release when the worst of the drop rates have been fixed after thousands of people complained about it.

You're the one that's been arguing this entire time as though we're still in June 2012, you moronic tit. The rest of us were discussing the article this thread was created in reference of, which talks about the state of the game today, not a year ago. Just how stupid can you get?

I hope you also play the game in offline mode and that you increase your stats through assigning attribute points and not through using equipment. I've cited all three those things as ways Blizzard tried to coerce people into using the AH, so please, prove me wrong.

Firstly, a lack of offline play does not, in any way whatsoever, 'coerce' people into using the AH. For you to draw such a conclusion you need to be on the same level of stupidity as people who believe governments are pumping stuff into the water-supply to cause rainbows on the ground.

Secondly, you provided an infographic that highlights a dumbing down of gameplay mechanics between D2 and D3, not one that provides evidence to prove your persistent claims that Blizzard tailored their game towards 'coercing' people into using the AH. As I said already, where do you think that gear is coming from in the first place. Is Blizzard busy seeding that gear onto the AH? Do you think the AH is some kind of super-secret conspiracy by Blizzard-Activision to milk their consumers of thousands of extra dollars by making them buy into what's not a player-driven marketplace, but instead a store-front for pay-to-win goods exclusively provided by Blizzard?

Seeing as you seem intent on doing the impossible, while you're at it why don't you time travel and go back to the day the game released and then record a playthrough there and see what drop rates looked like then?

Completely and utterly irrelevant to this discussion. Besides which I played the game at the same time you did and 'magically' did not encounter the same issues you did.

Diablo 3 was designed, from the ground up, to coerce players into using the AH. This is reflected in the drop rates we saw at release

Yeah, because no players anywhere were ever getting anything but white shoulders and leggings. Ever. They had to go buy better gear from Blizzard from the AH.

the fact that it is online-only

Has nothing to do with the AH, as the AH is player-to-player trade that would occur even if the game were played on LAN or via VPNs - or, y'know, people friended each other and joined a party to trade in-game.

and the fact that all stats are entirely gear-dependent

Has nothing to do with the AH.

I don't really know why you're on this little 'crusade' to prove me 'wrong,'

Because you wrongly believe and are seemingly too fixated on trying to will these imaginings into existence to figure out that the following is simply not true

Diablo 3 is centered around the AH.

But have fun. I must say, I'm remarkably flattered that someone is so bothered by my opinion that they would go to such lengths to prove me 'wrong.'

'Bothered' is the wrong word. I'm amused. I can't be bothered by someone expressing an opinion since those are just that; opinion. What you're doing isn't an expression of opinion, it's an attempt at stating things as 'fact', which they aren't.

I derive enjoyment from proving just how wrong people are, even if it's a pointless exercise.

So, again. You came into this discussion, which focuses on the game as it is right now, and are the one that screwed up by eventually trying to backtrack and indicate that you were talking about how the game was then. The big joke being that, as I've said several times, I also played the game as it was back then and didn't encounter any of the issues or things you take issue with as you did.

Diablo 3 has become a game about gold. Its endgame, with the auction house at its heart, is about slow, incremental progression, cash runs and repeated boss raids. It relies on grind-heavy objectives that feel very different to the rush of new skills I enjoyed on the journey to level 60.

This guy from the PCGamer article is a perfect example of doing it wrong. I have spent collectively less than 10mil gold in total on all of my characters thusfar and not a single real-world cent. Anything I've ever bought from the AH that I ended up replacing has not incurred me a loss of gold, I've only gained. And the big thing to keep in mind is that where it would have previously taken me weeks when not months to grind my characters into beating Diablo 2 at the highest difficulty options available, it takes me only days to weeks at most to do the same in Diablo 3.

In other words, the issue the game has is not that the AH is inherently 'bad' or that it's 'ruining the game' so much as that the Auction House detracts from the game's long-term appeal. It's a game you play for a few days/weeks per character to beat it at its highest difficulty setting and then you're 'done' - there's nothing more to do. You've won the internets.

And it's, again, not because the AH exists 'at all' that this is true. Without the AH existing, those that wanted to fast-track it to success would have simply gone onto forums to trade gear up until they could beat Diablo at MP 10 on Inferno difficulty. All that's true at the moment is that due to the accessibility the AH affords one, it's possible to do the aforementioned in less time and with significantly less effort - and because of the way it functions, scamming is less of an issue and so building a 'reputation' on the forums as a 'legit' trader is not a prerequisite to getting what you want.

The single biggest issue the game has is that there's little to no motivation for people to continue playing once they've defeated the game with the characters they wanted to at the difficulty setting they wanted to. Nothing new to do becomes available - at most there's PVP against other players.

And none of this has anything whatsoever to do with the AH.

 

[Pooky]

I don't have a problem with having to Play D3 only online, I actually like it.

Apart from the AH, I don't like the way loot works. It's just quite simply boring compared to D2, and not interchangeable at all the way it was. That combined with the 'one size fits all character builds' (eg no skill point/skill customisation; everyone has the same stuff) already puts me off not even taking into account the AH.

 

[nanonyous]

While the game lacks in true individualization to the degree Diablo2 had, it is possible to build characters to fulfill completely different roles in very different ways - if not for all five of the classes, anyway.

I have a build for a Barbarian that's designed to easily tank MP10 Inferno creeps as though it's nothing, even if you're using really cheap gear. I have three different versions for it; one which holds the mobs 'on' it so that AOE attacks from party members are most effective, one that 'feeds' party members life and AP/hatred/mana/intelligence/spirit/health via globe drops (a lot of them) and one which prevents the mobs from attacking party members as easily, when not creating mixes between the three different sub-roles.

Then I have single-target dps builds and mass-mob dps builds for the Barbie and similar builds for the Wizard and DH.

Could go on, but the point I'd be getting at is just what I said in the first line of this post - the game isn't exactly devoid of individualization, it's just not nearly as good as it was in Diablo2, all for the sake of dumbing the game down to cater to kiddies that can't put two and two together.

 

[Graal]

You're the one that's been arguing this entire time as though we're still in June 2012, you moronic tit. The rest of us were discussing the article this thread was created in reference of, which talks about the state of the game today, not a year ago. Just how stupid can you get?

Ooh boy, he broke out the insults. He mad.

Whether I'm talking about the game as it is today or last year doesn't changed the fact that many of Blizzard's design decisions centred around the AH. If you would actually start listening and stop slinging around insults, maybe you would be able to understand what I'm saying, but seeing as you clearly can't, I'll explain it like I would to a baby.

The fact that the game is online-only means that Blizzard has direct control over how players game. This isn't conspiracy theory level stuff and it's pretty funny that you think it is. It simply means players cannot mod the game, cannot cheat and cannot in any other way add items to their inventory without either purchasing those items from the AH or earning it in-game. There simply is no logical reason to force players to be online other than having complete control over their play experience. Diablo 3 would not even have been an online-only game had there not been an AH in the game.

Gear being the primary means of increasing stats and abysmal loot tables is an easy one. Gear being stat dependent is a smart move, because it lessens the amount of drops that each class can use. In Diablo 2, one piece of gear might be useful for 5 different classes. In Diablo 3 one piece of gear is usually only useful for a single class, maybe two if the gear is exceptionally good. The average player, if he continues either getting really poor drops, or gear that his character cannot use, do you think he's going to spend hours grinding out an area in the hopes of getting a decent piece of gear or is he going to head over to the AH where he can get a full set of gear in 5 minutes? I'm not sure why you seem to think I don't understand that gear doesn't come from the players themselves, but if you keep getting drops that your character can't use naturally you're going to place it on the AH, where some poor sod who can't get gear for his character is likely going to buy it.

It's really simple. Business 101. Provide a service. Make the alternatives much less convenient than your service. Watch as people use your service because it's more convenient.

It's not very difficult to understand how Blizzard built their game and game mechanics around coercing the players into using the AH. The drops were improved after a lot of complaints by the Diablo 3 community, but the other influences wrought by the AH remain. You seem to keep misrepresenting my arguments, either because you are incapable of, or unwilling to understand what I'm saying. I'm not really sure why it's so important to you to prove me 'wrong,' but it is getting rather tiresome. It doesn't seem we're going to make any headway here. You keep shouting down my opinion, claiming I'm trying to state it as fact, while you keep shouting out your opinion, ironically also as if it is fact.

I think the fact that you've now resorted to petty insults is reason enough to believe that we've reached an impasse. I believe that the AH's influence is readily apparent in the majority of Diablo 3's gameplay systems, I can continue providing my justifications to support my opinion, you'll continue misrepresenting these justifications in your responses to me, sling a few choice ad hominem attacks my way, and eventually neither of us will budge and the only thing we'll have to show for it is a long, tiresome argument that accomplished nothing other than to waste each other's time.

So, in order to prevent further time wasting, I'll cut the argument short right here. The AH's influence is apparent not only in Diablo 3's gameplay mechanics, but also its loot systems and the very fact that it is online-only. Agree, don't agree, it makes little matter to me. I've devoted enough time to bickering about Auctionhouse: The Game. It's Blizzard's worst game in years, possibly ever, and it really isn't even worth the time of the day, much less the time I spent on this pointless debate.

Good day.

 

[Weasley]

I don't have a problem with having to Play D3 only online, I actually like it.

Apart from the AH, I don't like the way loot works. It's just quite simply boring compared to D2, and not interchangeable at all the way it was. That combined with the 'one size fits all character builds' (eg no skill point/skill customisation; everyone has the same stuff) already puts me off not even taking into account the AH.

Actually its more customizeble than d2. now i dont have to start over when i chosen wrong stat or skill.
or have to ready forms to find the perfect build. I can find it on my own.

 

[Pooky]

Actually its more customizeble than d2. now i dont have to start over when i chosen wrong stat or skill.
or have to ready forms to find the perfect build. I can find it on my own.

I loved building an 'ice sorceress' or a 'fire sorceress', or the different Druid builds, etc.. In D3, everyone has every build.
It's different and I can see the appeal, but personally I liked the way D2 did it, especially in relation to items.

 

[nanonyous]

Whether I'm talking about the game as it is today or last year doesn't changed the fact that many of Blizzard's design decisions centred around the AH.

Except where they didn't, and sure, it mightn't change that 'fact', but it doesn't change the fact that you started out in this thread making a bold claim about one thing while using, as supplement to your argument, an infographic that was entirely unrelated. It also doesn't change the fact that after it's been spelled out to you numerous times, you make a very half-assed attempt at backpedaling, yet continue to fail miserably in the process.

If you would actually start listening and stop slinging around insults, maybe you would be able to understand what I'm saying, but seeing as you clearly can't, I'll explain it like I would to a baby.

No, see, that's just the thing - I've been 'listening' to you and telling you that you are wrong, explaining why as I go along. If anything, you're the one that's not 'listening' to me and comprehending why it is that your argument is flawed and your proposed 'facts' invalid.

The fact that the game is online-only means that Blizzard has direct control over how players game.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the AH

This isn't conspiracy theory level stuff and it's pretty funny that you think it is.

I don't. I know that in your woeful attempt to 'explain' things, even while (supposedly) doing so now as though I were a 'baby', you come across as a conspiracy-theorist. A mentally challenged one. This isn't an 'insult', it's a statement that contains a reflection of how your content is interpreted - which is why I said "how stupid can you get"; because that's exactly how your content comes across - as that submitted by someone that is stupid.

It simply means players cannot mod the game

Which has nothing to do with the AH, and while sad, has nothing to do with your argument either

cannot cheat

They can cheat, they're just that much more likely to have their accounts banned than people were previously likely to have their cd-keys banned

and cannot in any other way add items to their inventory without either purchasing those items

How terrible! People can't play a game the way they want to! I should go throw up a stink with the Angry Bird developers for not allowing me to mod the Facebook game to create my own levels - BASTARDS ARE CONTROLLING HOW I PLAY ('my') GAMES! RAHRAHRAHRAHRAH!

They have every right to control how people play their game. You do not own the Battle.net account you use nor do you own the game you are playing. You own license to use a battle.net account and license to play a game, and that license can be revoked at the sole discretion of the publisher of said game.

from the AH

from people that had to farm for the items themselves, not unlike trading

or earning it in-game.

GASP! SHOCK HORROR DISBELIEF! PEOPLE! PLAYING A GAME TO GET STUFF IN THAT GAME RATHER THAN ENTERING CHEAT CODES TO GET STUFF!

There simply is no logical reason to force players to be online other than having complete control over their play experience.

Wait, didn't you say above that it helps prevent people from cheating? That's one pretty good reason to have a game be online-only considering it's one of those games that's played purely solo by what's likely the minority of its playerbase...

Diablo 3 would not even have been an online-only game had there not been an AH in the game.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
Ladders and PVP are two very good reasons to keep things online-only. In Diablo2, if I recall, you could convert a multiplayer character to a singleplayer one, but not the other way around. This was done in large part to prevent people from bringing duped or injected content from SP into the MP ecosystem. Despite the system being in place, people could still dupe stuff on their multiplayer characters using offline methods anyway, seeing as characters used on lan were stored on the local computer as opposed to Blizzard servers. Wanted to make a copy of your weapon for a friend the easy way? Make a copy of your save file, trade the item to him, exit and put your savefile copy in place of the now-modified one. Tada, duped weapon. If both of your characters were online simultaneously, though, there was a reasonable risk the duped version would get wiped - in some cases, both would. This was why players had to foster a good reputation as non-dupers on forums where trading was performed and why auctions on eBay (of which there were more of than anything else until Runescape auctions took over) would often be listed as "NON-DUPE".

It's also important to keep in mind that items are generated server-side. Because items are generated server side, the loot drop tables are only known to Blizzard employees, so players can at best guess as to where they had the best chance of getting which set and legendary items, as well as guess as to what the drop rates for those items in those areas are, at best. Through this people can't extract such info from the offline-only 'version' of the game to use such knowledge to gain an advantage in online play, and Blizzard can continue to put out content that isn't so generic as to drop absolutely anywhere in the game purely so there's no aspect of "it's unfair, the hacker guys have found out where the stuff drops".

So no, there are very good reasons to have the game online-only and for it to do everything server-side. It might be a bit of a rocky experience at times and suck for those with unstable internet connections or high latencies, but it benefits the majority rather than the minority.

Also, still has nothing to do with the AH aside from avoiding issues with duped items/gold (which, btw, people recently managed to put duped gold onto the real money auction house).

Gear being the primary means of increasing stats and abysmal loot tables is an easy one.

This simply promotes player trading and does not have anything to do with the AH. Again - try to understand that even if the AH got removed, people would just use forums to trade as they did before D3's AH. Nothing would change except how easy and efficient it is for people to do their trading.

Gear being stat dependent is a smart move, because it lessens the amount of drops that each class can use. In Diablo 2, one piece of gear might be useful for 5 different classes.

Except it's not universally true. If you go look at that infographic you so love posting, you might notice that the example item used has, as its second example, a Barbarian only weapon. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean it can't be used by the 6 other classes?. It also has a bonus on it to warcries - a barbarian only skill. A bonus you could get on non-barbarian gear, it's worth noting. Oh, and let's also conveniently ignore the strength requirement - strength which you were highly unlikely to put a whole lot of on your Sorceress, Necromancer, Rogue or Assassin. Y'know, more than half the total classes available. Not when you could put points into Dexterity/Intelligence or Vitality.

On a lesser note, the first item listed has a high strength requirement and strength bonus, which makes it of less value to the four classes mentioned above.

 

[nanonyous]

In Diablo 3 one piece of gear is usually only useful for a single class, maybe two if the gear is exceptionally good.

Wrong. This is true of class-specific weapons/off-hand items and helms, but is not true of absolutely everything else. Witching Hour is one of the most popular legendary drops that's useful for any class. Similarly, Lacuni Prowlers are useful for any class. Andariel's Visage is useful for any class. The Immortal King item set is primarily geared towards Barbarians, but can still be useful on Monks. Similarly the Zunimazza's set is useful primarily for Witchdoctors, but some of its items can also be useful for Wizards. Some of the items from the Natalya set can be useful for monks. Scorn, a staff, can be useful for Barbarians as well as Wizards - even Echoing Fury, a Mace, can be useful for Barbarians, Wizards and Monks. The only differentiating factor is what mainstat it rolled, which does not make the gear inherently worse when you take into account that it took that much longer to find gear that was really nice in Diablo 2 if you weren't cheating.

Not getting drops of the items that are useful for the class(es) you happen to want to play now? Go dump the item on the appropriate class for later! Never going to play that class? Trade it for a version that's suited to the class you do want to play!

When Diablo 2 first came out, by what I recall, its loot was actually also kind of dull in terms of how much it truly supported individualization of builds - it was basically down to choosing skills to vary your builds. It took some time before they re-balanced the game to be more interesting. So this essentially highlights an issue with the fact that Diablo 3 got dumbed down versus Diablo 2 - something I won't deny, because I was annoyed with how much they were dumbing things down before the game even launched.

The average player, if he continues either getting really poor drops, or gear that his character cannot use, do you think he's going to spend hours grinding out an area in the hopes of getting a decent piece of gear or is he going to head over to the AH where he can get a full set of gear in 5 minutes?

I dunno, man. Back when I played Diablo 2 I refused to buy anything from other people for real money, and seeing those auctions on eBay sometimes ate away at me, because here I was suffering not getting any decent drops while there were people happily handing over $100+ for a single item. So I stuck to grinding on my own. I couldn't afford to play online at the time but did occasionally lan with some of my friends who also played D2, and we'd frequently talk about the awesome drops we found or offer something up for trade to the other party - being friends, we'd do this without expecting anything back most of the time. At lan parties, on the other hand, people wanted something back for the shit they were trading, and even then you couldn't know for certain they hadn't duped what they were selling, as they couldn't know you didn't dupe what you were offering.

I'm not sure why you seem to think I don't understand that gear doesn't come from the players themselves, but if you keep getting drops that your character can't use naturally you're going to place it on the AH, where some poor sod who can't get gear for his character is likely going to buy it.

And this is a problem why, exactly? So an item you found is inferior to what you already have. You sell it or just drop it. Not for your current character class? Move it over to the class it is intended for. Never going to play that class? Ever? Sell it.

Want to cry more about how some 'poor sod' will then come to buy something from you that he isn't finding in drops? You don't suppose he could've, I dunno, been selling stuff he didn't want to use either, leaving him with a whole lot of gold to buy stuff with?

It's really simple. Business 101. Provide a service. Make the alternatives much less convenient than your service. Watch as people use your service because it's more convenient.

Except they didn't make the drops inherently less convenient than it was in Diablo2. This is why I'm going to be recording those videos - to show you just how wrong you are. Convenience does not make the AH an evil master plan by the evil corporation(s), it's just a convenience.

It's not very difficult to understand how Blizzard built their game and game mechanics around coercing the players into using the AH.

Maybe not if you're a crackpot conspiracy theorist. Yes, I'm now insulting you directly.

The drops were improved after a lot of complaints by the Diablo 3 community

Do you even know what the original problems with the drop tables were? Some areas dropped a hell of a lot more loot than others, causing the 'natural flow' of the game to be broken. People were going back to particular areas, like the Field of Misery, to go and grind out specific drops only found in those areas. For the longest time, the Manticore crossbow had a player-estimated 3% droprate in the Fields of Misery while the only other place it could drop was in The Keep levels 1 and 2, where it dropped with a player-estimated chance of less than 1% (both from elite packs and champion mobs)

The problem wasn't that gear simply wasn't dropping fast enough, it was that gear wasn't dropping in a stable fashion. This is not unlike the still-present issue of the severe jump in monster level when one finishes the Caverns of Aranae and goes into the Highlands Crossing.

You seem to keep misrepresenting my arguments, either because you are incapable of, or unwilling to understand what I'm saying.

I'm fairly confident that you're the only one screwing up your own arguments here. I'm explaining to you why your presented points are wrong or flawed - you're just so adamant to disagree that you're now coming to the conclusion that I'm 'not listening to you' or 'misrepresenting your arguments'.

I'm not really sure why it's so important to you to prove me 'wrong,' but it is getting rather tiresome.

Because you presented something as though it was fact and were called out on it. If you're going to leave an argument then just do it, don't declare your intent to leave "because the other guy doesn't get it".

It doesn't seem we're going to make any headway here. You keep shouting down my opinion, claiming I'm trying to state it as fact, while you keep shouting out your opinion, ironically also as if it is fact.

I 'shout' out my opinion as 'fact' because I am confident that it is fact. Just as you are confident that your arguments are fact, even if you try to claim that they're only 'opinion'. If your points were only opinion you wouldn't go through so much trouble trying to defend your points, just as I wouldn't.

I think the fact that you've now resorted to petty insults is reason enough to believe that we've reached an impasse. I believe that the AH's influence is readily apparent in the majority of Diablo 3's gameplay systems, I can continue providing my justifications to support my opinion, you'll continue misrepresenting these justifications in your responses to me, sling a few choice ad hominem attacks my way, and eventually neither of us will budge and the only thing we'll have to show for it is a long, tiresome argument that accomplished nothing other than to waste each other's time.

Please highlight the ad hominem remarks. Also, just as you could bring up infographics to 'prove' your point, I could link you to the numerous threads currently cropping up all over the D3 forums right now where people are saying things not unlike what I'm saying. Just as there are those presenting arguments like yours, there are those presenting arguments like mine. There are even people over there on their own crusade to prove people like you wrong by starting 'self-found' games.

So, in order to prevent further time wasting, I'll cut the argument short right here.

Okay, then lemme do this for you. I'm going to add a few words and emphasis to show how you should have 'cut the argument short' so as to not present your points as fact, but as opinion instead.

In my opinion,, the AH's influence is apparent not only in Diablo 3's gameplay mechanics, but also its loot systems and the very fact that it is online-only. Agree, don't agree, it makes little matter to me. I've devoted enough time to bickering about Auctionhouse: The Game. It's Blizzard's worst game in years, possibly ever, and it really isn't even worth the time of the day, much less the time I spent on this pointless debate.

Does it make sense yet? This is how to convey opinion - by explicitly indicating it's opinion. Everything you have said thus far has been expressed as matter-of-fact, not as opinion.

View attachment 5232
The number of the beast! It's a sign!

 

[Graal]

I'm not even going to read that giant wall of text. Just skimming it I already spotted two places where you already completely missed my point and/or purposely misrepresented them. I'm not even going to bother wasting my time. You clearly don't seem capable of civil discourse, instead resorting to petty insults and fits of rage because someone is saying mean things about your favorite game.

Now good day. I hope you enjoy playing Auctionhouse: The Game.

 

[nanonyous]

fits of rage

You cannot discern someone's mood or behaviour through their text over the internet.

You are an idiot. You have proven this through your vain attempts at 'civil discourse' where you've done nothing but repeat the same 'points' over and over again without providing evidence of your own to back up what amounts to nothing more than claims - something I have done. You have tried to argue about something that has changed quite significantly since you last interacted with it as though the information you're using is still relevant - which it isn't. You have tried to backpedal claiming that what you've expressed was opinion - you've expressed everything as though it's fact.

This is why I don't bother being 'civil' with you - because I have little tolerance for babying people that are wallowing in their own stupidity unless they want to help themselves out of such a situation, which you clearly don't want to. You're far happier telling anyone that will listen that the AH ruins Diablo3 despite the fact that you (in your own words) have not played it in months; months during which the game has undergone significant changes towards its gameplay mechanics and that have led up to the changes to come, the changes that were being discussed in this thread and the article it links to.



This thread was not created to discuss how terribad Diablo 3 was at launch. Thus, this thread is not for people like you, Graal. It is for people that are looking to the future of the game. So in summary, if you want to live in the past go ahead and do so, but don't drag anyone else down with your inane bullshit.

*edit* Also, it's funny. You want to talk about 'civil discourse' but won't read what I've said to you even if you won't be partaking in the argument anymore. I guess in that way, at the very least, I'm the more civil between the two of us, since I'll still take the time to read each and every single word someone posts addressing me, even if I don't agree with it.

 

[Graal]

The fact that they changed the drop rates after thousands of players complained has nothing to do with the fact that they made loot drops so shit in the first place in an attempt to coerce people into using the AH? See, that's what I'm talking about when I say you are either incapable of understanding what I'm saying or you are purposely misrepresenting my argument. What a waste of time.

Enjoy playing Auctionhouse: The Game.

Also:

 

[nanonyous]

The fact that they changed the drop rates after thousands of players complained

About the fact that some areas dropped more loot than others, which meant people had to keep running back to areas they had already completed (long ago) just to get loot to compete with the later areas in the game

has nothing to do with the fact that they made loot drops so shit in the first place in an attempt to coerce people into using the AH?

Because obviously, if everyone is getting shit drops, there will be an absolute abundance of stuff materializing out of thin air onto the AH. Because, y'know, nobody can get decent stuff to trade with other people.

See, that's what I'm talking about when I say you are either incapable of understanding what I'm saying or you are purposely misrepresenting my argument.

No, you're just too much of a blithering idiot to understand why it is that what you're saying is inherently wrong.


As I said, if you're going to pull out of this argument, then simply leave, don't declare your intent to leave after trying, and failing miserably, to make a final assertion as to why you're right and the other party/parties wrong, as though you're some kind of champion of the internet shouing dem stuhped trahlz wut four.